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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Retro Game Compo. & Source Code Issues

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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 19:41
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As has already been clear, we have to release the source code for our entries - I don't have a problem with that, but can I request that DBS clearly stipulate on the results / download page for the entries once the compo is over:

1) If users built games using large amounts of an entry's source code then they have to make it open source and free.

2) If users use any code from an entry then they must include credit in the game credits list or the accompanying readme.

I don't mind people using my work as long as they give due credit.
NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 19:54
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no, u release code to help people learn how you did the game. Plus its to prove that you did the game.

xxxpetratxxx
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 20:12
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I was under the impression we release source to DBS but not publically. I wonuldn't b prepared to release my source code publically because I use generic code that can be adapted to make many styles of games - its taken me years to perfect and I don't want some new guy comin along and using it to produce their own works of genius - unless they pay me big bucks

I don't wanna sound stingy, Its just I've been working on this stuff basically since DBv1 was released, with full intention to sell it when its perfected...

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 20:41
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The whole point of this compo is:

1) So DBS can put some good demos on their site to sell their software

2) So DBS can publish the source code as examples / tutorials.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 20:43
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I would think that aslong as it complies with the rules you should be able to release the code under whatever licence you like.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 20:53
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Darth - absolutely right; the reason for the compo is to stimulate the community somewhat, to get some good demos to publish and to get some source to help out newbies, etc. As for who owns the code - well you do of course. If you want to put disclaimers in it saying "not to be used commercially" then that's fine! It's yours to do with as you please, all you have to remember is that what you submit to us you're allowing us to put up on our site/CDs for people to freely download. That doesn't mean they can freely use it in their own games though.

Kanga - WE need to see your code completely, you have to decide how much of it you want to release. It doesn't matter if it's just the core of the code without the major supporting functions or if its a couple of good quality functions that could be adapted by anyone - but you have to release something to us to publish (and we've always said this btw).

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Matto
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 21:06
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I have to say that as my code will not be anything new or imaginative, I don't have a huge problem with making it openly available. if you are using your own self created tools I do see why you are itchy at the thought of doing this though, I can only say that if you are bothered about people ripping or seeing your works of art/code then don't use things you don't want others to see, rip or use.

I do agree with the fact that anyone entering the competition should be acknowledged for their work if it is being used in someone elses title whether it is released as freeware, shareware or published. The original work should be credited if used elsewhere, the problem here is that many people can make the same code and most likely in more professional or advanced programming are unaware that others have coded like this elsewhere, so where do you draw the line or infact how do you say you are the owner of some code if it is possible for others to produce simlar or identicle code with DB/DBPRO.

It might be better to save your refined engines and tools for the real deal, which is when you are able to sell your own games, either as shareware or published. If this is your actual intention for the tools you are using for creating a game for the competition I would think seriously about how much you need that work to stay your own.

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Rob K
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 21:28
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Also remember that "other" tools - eg level editor, custom DLLs and so on do not have to be released.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Bunni
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 21:44
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Thanks Rich, I wasn't trying to be awkward but Like I said I've been working on my actual generic core code, functions and subroutines for years, so I'm understandably fond of it Its just the fact that people could steal it, then compile an exe and I would have no idea if they have - Maybe if I could remove a few subroutines and functions for public use that'd b ok Cheers

Yes, a GIRL who can really program! Not bad looking too hehee
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 9th Feb 2003 21:48
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Lol Sorry that wasn't Bunni that was Me who wrote that message - Bunni is a friend of mine who I've just introduced to DB, she signed in under my PC and I forgot to sign her out lol

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 00:40
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you know i think i agree with Shader... i'm happy to release the full source as long as DBS set it to GPL
i mean my source i release is covered by the FreeSource Agreement 2000, which has similar stipulations to GPL - however it would actually limit DBS not to comercially exploit from it either without paying the developers (in this case me) a set sum.
So you can see why that isn't an option to be used.

i'll think about this some whilst i finish some things up

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 01:45
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Mostly I side with Kanga, I probably only write about 5 generic games and modify them from there, my techniques are the result of proramming since I was a kid and whilst I am fully prepared to help people out I have some 'secrets' and techniques that I preffer to keep to myself until i've used them commercially.

I already had to ditch one retro competition entry because it used a technique that I was just not prepared to give away yet, it was a very powerful and versatile technique for terrain that I have not fully exploited myself yet.

As for someone taking a section of my code and giving credit, well I know a lot of people downloaded the models from my site and I imagine they've used them - not one person has sent me or my brother the link to their works though (so we could see where our work has ended up...) which was a requirement for downloading them.

Source code is even easier to disguise and hide, on top of that you can call me a snob but I really would not want to have credit on some of the titles I see released. If someone is needing to look at my code to learn how to program, then the odds are I don't want to be associated with the result of their work as i'm several years of learning ahead...

So in not wanting credit, and seeing my techniques in use in other programs I loose out in all respects.

Also the open-source aspect has hindered the competition entry release I intend to make tommorow night when I launch my entry, Jetpac. I had originally intended to have the high score chart global and stored on the internet, but this would not work without encryption and encryption would not work in open source. Therefor I did not implement this feature which I think is a loss. Thankfully I had not yet written this feature when the rules where announced.

Anyway I think the competition is a great idea and i'm glad it gave me and my brother the inspiration to write Jetpac, it's a great game that I so loved when I was younger and if it had not been for the competition then it would never have been written.

Pneumatic

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 03:06
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Thanks Pneumatic, obviously I agree with what u just said. I'm having serious 2nd thoughts as to what I enter for the compo for the reasons u just stated. Not that I'm saying others shouldn't enter or anything stupid I think its a great idea

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 04:29
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No offence - but anyone who doesn't enter purely in the grounds that they for some reason think the entire source needs to be "freely available/GPLd/etc" are simply not listening to what I say.

I have stated many many times that you do not have to release ALL of your code. I have openly declared that you can negotiate with us which parts you'd like to show and which you wouldn't.

If this isn't flexible enough for you then, to be honest, maye your code is best left lingering on your hard drive anyway?

From what I've seen so far I would say it's time to get coding and stop worrying about trivial points like this that have already been addressed - I've seen some very strong entries already, believe me the winner is going to have to submit something quite special so far and we've still a month to go.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 10:25
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lol I know I know sorry Rich I don't mean to get hung up on it

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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 13:51
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@Lee - Names & Screenies please

Seriously though - with all the talent there I won't win the compo. I am just in it to try and get an entry in the gallery (where I presume some of the entries will end up)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 20:38
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I can't help it - my nature is to complain about things. I'm English 'an everything...

Anyway I still think the competition is great, even though i'd rather be all snobby and not show my code I am going to do so, and in full.

Pneumatic

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 20:44
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lmao... PneumaticDryll - "I can't help it - my nature is to complain about things. I'm English 'an everything..."

its funny because its true

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 20:52
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Indeed... us English folk have to be the most pessimistic in the world, even beating the Frogs!

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 20:53
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One is laughing one's rear end off

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 21:49
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rofloro

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UberTuba
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Posted: 10th Feb 2003 22:33
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I hev no problem with releasing source code. Only something
original is worth keeping secret, and this is a
retro progrmming competition.

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 00:18
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yoda "always with you it is not possible. Can not be done! English must you be!"

i'm kinda bored, but not to worry because i have all nite now to code up KG's formats - finish his netcode and hand over the animated skeletons

if tommorrow i get a - "and how would i go about using these ingame?" i'm gonna turn up at his house and throttle him with his mouse cord ... though he's probably flashy and has an infra red one - so probably have to improvise

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 00:32
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Have fun Raven - I'm going back to get on with collision programming. Then I can move on GFX

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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DARKGirl
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 01:16
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Aww, since he said that he got some impressive entries already, I guess I'll jest have to make a complete game...I was going to jest make the first level.

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 02:05
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lmao Yeah i DO have a flashy cordless optical mouse Don't worry Raven I'm sure I'll b able to work out how 2 use em, many thanks for your hard work

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Rob K
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 23:27
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@Raven

You mean you don't have a flashy cordless optical mouse ?? - It makes a nice change to just be able to stick your legs up and run the mouse around and not worry what surface it is on - just don't try using the mouse on your trouser leg and visiting porn sites at the same time

I suggest you yank the radio receiver out of its USB or PS2 port and use that instead.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Bunni
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 02:19
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Stop finding creative ways to kill Sam, hes the cleverest guy I know, and cute too

Yes, a GIRL who can really program! Not bad looking too hehee
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Bunni
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 02:20
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And yes I do know hes married I like Marie very much

Yes, a GIRL who can really program! Not bad looking too hehee
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