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3 Dimensional Chat / Newb modeler seeking advice

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Zealous
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 06:32
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So I had a student copy of max, but never got very good at it. Couple things I didnt like about it were all the extra features I never used. Im looking for a basic modeler that I can use for basic objects (trees, rocks, ect...).

Couple features I do need. The ability to control vertex alpha, and the ability to multitexture.

Ive heard a lot of good things about milkshape. Does that sound like the best program for me? Or is there something else out there I should try?

Thanks in advance

All you need is zeal
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 09:13
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How much are you willing to Pay is the reall question


Blender is really good and free, has a lot of modelling power, I don't know about of its shader features, personally I think this program is a bit confusing for a beginner (buts has a lot of tutorial support)


TrueSpace, is good too, has all you need there, about 300 odd dollars
I don't think to much of its renderer though, it has odd shadows (it treats alpha maps as part of the object)


Cinema 4D, I love this baby, I own an old version, but its really easy to learn in my opinion, tbe website has tutorials good enough to get you started and you can learn on your own from there, I mean you don't necessarily need all those tutorials like character modelling to give a good learning curve in Cinema 4D, has all the features you said you need, plus some more easy to use ones you may need in the future, and it has a good renderer, caustics, radiosity and HDRI.

you got 3 versions
Standard
XL
Studio
Standard would be best for you about £500 (dunno dollars) because it has all your features and you don't need all those fancy extra you can buy upgrade for when you need them.


My best be it to go to http://www.maxon.net and download their demo
and http://www.caligari.com to get the Truespace demo and http://www.blender3d.com to try it out

whatever you love the best, is prolly the best for you

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Frozen Flame
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 10:12
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i love my wings.


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Zealous
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 11:18
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Hmm well I dont know much about either of those... So I take it milkshape just sucks? It seems like it will be powerful enough to do what I need so long as I can control the vertex alpha (i suppose I could just do the multitexturing in dbpro).

So can milkshape control vertex alpha?

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 11:52
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Nope, Milkshape doesn't suck, I've never touched it before, so I don't know what its capable of. I'm gonna judge this from work I've seen done with programs. Milkshape is good for game models, great low poly stuff, Blender, great all round stuff, seen amazing stuff in all areas. Personally if you're on a small budget, just get blender, that probaly you're best bet, as I said, DEMOS!! lol

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Zealous
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:01
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blender3d website is dead... thats not a good sign

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:07
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maybe I gave you a bad link, lemme sort it out for ya lol

ahhh its .org not .com so the links are both

http://www.blender.org or
[href]htt://www.blender3d.org[/href]

I think one has more tutorials, or they're the same, I just googled it is all lol, so I wouldn't know

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Zealous
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:23 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 12:24
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Hmm neither worked (btw youre missing a 'p' in that last one). Ill just google it when I get home.

*edit do you know if blender supports vertex alpha or multitexturing?

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 12:39 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2005 12:39
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Quote: "So I take it milkshape just sucks?"


Not if you're good with it. Personally I can make masterpieces in milkshape, but can't do crud in most other programs.
Always remember, it's the artist that makes the model, not the program.

My recommendation is to try out every trial/freeware download you can until you find one that's right for you. There are plenty of links in the sticky posts on this board. Good luck!

I pity the fool who thinks 1337 is cool!

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John H
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 14:04
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MS3D Doesnt suck at all. Its a great program. Its the artist, not the program that makes the models though.


Click here to join our forums and get updates on game progress sooner!
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 16:16
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no program sucks if your good at it.

Programs provide tools and power.

you provide skills!

John HandCock
http://www.blacklabstudios.5gigs.com
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Zealous
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 17:06
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Ehe I didnt mean to offend the milkshap fans, I know its 99% artist 1% app. Seppuku just didnt mention it in his 'list' is all.

Anyway back to my main Q, can milkshape set vertex alpha? Multitexture? I would just download and test but those are really the only two things I need, so I wont even bother if I cant do them.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2005 22:31
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soz man, I just listen programs and what they do, personally I'd say Cinema 4D is the easiest to learn overall, but not exactly wallet friendly, as said earlier, I highly recommend to try demos/freeware and see what works for you, I don't know what kind of budget you're on, but I'll provide you with links to as many 3D apps as I can list

I already said blender
(all of these shpuld have demos or are freeware)
http://www.anim8or.com-Free

Wings (soz I have no link for that one)- free

http://www.aist.com-£68 ($132)

http://www.eovia.com-varies, differant versions (cheapest is £39)

http://www.caligari.com-TrueSpace/gamespace (TS about $400+, GS about £300)

http://www.pixelsdigital.com-£77 ($149)

http://www.curiouslabs.com- (varies, £58-£107 $109-$209)

As for the expensive lot I'm not going to list them.

happy downloading

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 05:22
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ignore pixels digital, its a mac only program

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 06:28 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 06:29
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Im not a milkshape fan never used it personally. Id say the artist app ratio is about 60user 40app(Basically what you said but Id say that app amounts to more than just 1). Its all about the person. Like personally
I dont like Mayas UI it seems so unorganized to me. I think Max has much better workflow and is quite cheaper(thought Id never say that). buts its true isnt Maya about $3,000 more. And just as quick note I dont own Maya and Max Id be one rich mofo then!! but I tried the PLE once and It was weird. Back on topic. If I have started out with Maya then I would say Maya is better and Max sucks. Just try out alot of stuff before you make a decision and one day you should buy a program if plan to be pro like Seppuku Geijutsu or Stalker.(btw theyre not pro just really good atleast I dont think theyre pro.)

John HandCock
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 08:46
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Contradiction to BenDstraw.........

Me a pro? Nah I'm still a newb (well newb/intermediate), honest, I can't compare myself to my friends at other forums, pro is like eddie, I'll link you
intermediate is like sspike
http://forum.3dworldmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=5813&start=195

I'm not sure but I think eddie is a max user.

I'm a Cinema 4D addict!!!!Its like drugs man....drools staring into space (actually should'nt take the mick out of junkies, me uncle was one...)


@ Zealous, what exactly are you expecting from 3D, are you going into CG animation, or do you want to just do still renders or go into game modelling, maybe then I can help you more, I'll give you a list of apps that specialise in areas as an example, maybe this lot may help a lil bit more.

ZBrush - very...odd 3D app, supposed to be the easiest 3D modeler and renders extremely quicks, well can I call it a 3D modeller? Perfect for 3D stills, high poly, high quality, fast and fast rendering, it uses its own technique thst differs completely to other 3D apps, think of it as photoshop with the extra dimension (never used it, but heard its descriptions and seen screenshots)

GameSpace - good for game models, tools specialised in game modelling, so is milkshape, but GameSpace being more expensive means it is more powerful, an upside you don't get with most 3D apps is that the engine show the normals how they would look in game, so if you got normals problems, easier to detect.

CG has loads for it, Cinema 4D, anim8or, TrueSpace, 3DS max, Maya, houdini, Shade, Cararra, Lightwave...and I could go on

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sspike
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 09:25
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@Seppuku: I am only an intermediate lol nah I agree hopefully that should all change when I go off to uni this September

@Zealous: Ok I have had a pretty vast range of 3D software so I will try and give you the best and worst about all I have used, all these are based on the time I used them so it could be anything from up to 4 years ago so don't expect things to be the same nowadays

Anim8or: Nice little package its free and I first got into 3D using this at the time you couldn't really use it to create much but I don't know how this has changed since then also the renderer was a bit on the pants side as it it did was screenshot the canvas

Blender: Used this for about a year, took about a week to get used to the interface (used) to get plenty of updates as it was completly open source so anyone could make anything for it when I used it it didn't have shortcut keys which was pretty annoying but maybe that has changed can be used to create some nice things

Lightwave: Used this at college I proberly grew to like this as the interface is quite like blender's, had a few bugs at the time like unexpolained crashing and locking up, but the renderer is top notch and it has some pretty nifty tools

Maya: What I am using now, personally I love it I noticed someone above said they didn't like the layout..then change it, create your own shelves and put your most used commands on there to create a personal program. Although the price tag may set back the casual user, but if you want to get into 3D as a career in the future then Maya and 3DS max are the packages to know as most companies look highly opon these as it dosn't mean they have to spend the time and money re-training you.

Well thats my experience and my opinion
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 10:03 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 10:12
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It was just a PLE I dont think I should get to into a program I cant really use cause doesnt the PLE state that you cant even post your work on the internet I remember hearing that from somewhere.But all I was saying is that Maya isnt for me I bet I could get use to it but Im so use to other UI's its just different. I didnt mean to offend!

Hey Seppuku Geijutsu that link is to your magazine you were telling me about. Should I get it? where can I subscribe or can I? That was a nice model by Eddie with the robot. So I guess you have to model for about 3 years to be as good as him .And you shouldn't get down on your self Id say your past Noob but not quite intermediate I was just throwing in a compliment though I think Stalker could qualify as Pro. BTW did you ever find that Cloud tutorial you wanted to get me.

John HandCock
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2005 22:46 Edited at: 4th Jul 2005 22:49
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well you can subscribe to the magazine if you want, they always have help with 3DS max in there (well in the issues I bought, I'm sure its in there all the time)

the website is

http://www.3dworldmag.com

subscription is expensive, so you can either order it each month (I think, I just go down to the shop and buy it ) or just subscribe to a certian amount of magazines (I think its about £50, or was that when it was on special offer...) if you subscribe you can access their tutorial database completely free, has a lot for 3DS max.


Oh and I found the disk on Friday, was busy on Saturday (barely got onto my computer) yesterday I was too tired to do anything so I laid down and played games So I will write it today for you, I got nothing that much better to do


@sspike, good luck with Uni, I wanted to do 3D at college, but theres no where in my area that does it (Maxon, Cinema 4D said Bedford college did it in Cinema 4D, filthy liers! lol) so its RE, english lang, english lit and psychology for me (notice the irony......)

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Zealous
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 18:26
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Well crap just downloaded milkshape and doesnt seem like you can even color verts, let alone set their alpha.

Can anyone tell me of a free (or cheap) modeling program that can control vertex alpha (multitexture would be a plus).

All you need is zeal
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JeroenNL
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Posted: 5th Jul 2005 23:55
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DeleD has a LITE version which supports materials with multiple textures. The next version (1.3) will support alpha-textures. Might not be exactly what you're looking for but maybe worth trying out?

Use the free 3D modeller DeleD to get skilled in 3d editing! Visit http://www.delgine.com for more info.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 01:12
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blender, free, I dunno, but I have a feeling you'll get what you need out of it (never used it myself)

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Zealous
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 06:53
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Nope cant be alpha textures, has to be able to control the argb of the vert. I downloaded blender as well (very nice program for free), and doesnt look like it can do it either (only lets you paint rgb).

What the hell? I cant be the only person who needs to control vertex alpha.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 07:09
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maybe its a feature you have in the expensive progs, I've never seen control vertex alpha anywhere unless its had a differant name in other progs, I know the names in C4D are very differant to 3DS max, so I guess that applies to all progs

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sspike
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 07:27
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what exactly do you need it for?
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Robot Booger
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 09:05
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Gmax is a good free modeller.
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shado
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Posted: 6th Jul 2005 14:34
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y would u be using vertex colors and alphas? thats y they invented textures. lol.
wings supports vertex color. dont think it supports alpha


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