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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D model animation with 3d Studio is still killing me

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Olrik
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 02:42
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Welp, I have spent 2 days digging around trying to find the answer to my problem. But have seemed to narrow it down a bit.
I am guessing everyone else is having this same problem just like me. I am somewhat new to modeling, but I learn quick.
The physical numbers of my PC aren't a problem, everything is above a gig.

My problem is, I have made a simple character in 3d Studio 3.1. I added bones to it so I could link the boxes together and give it movement. I double check to see if it has animation. Then I have saved it as a 3DS file. Then run the converter in DB. And I get a *.X file that has no animation. I check it with the DB browser and it has no animation, but has texture. When I load them up into the tutorial program all of the boxes that the character is made of collapses down to a single point, and I am able to move the pile of mess around. Like I was walking, but no animation of the character mess. I have grabbed 4+ diffrent file converters to convert it to something else and then convert it over to a *.X file. I have tried to convert it to an *.OBJ, then convert it with MilkShape, and I still get nothing. But I did notice that MilkShape also didn't show me the animation. So I am hypothesising that 3D Studio is not infact saving the animation to the 3DS file.
If anybody has any clues as to how I can get this to work, that would be nice. I have tried my best to describe what I have done in 3D Studio. Please don't assume that I automatically knew about changing some setting to make everything stay where is supposed too, because that just might be what I screwed up on.
But again, any help to get this rolling would be great.
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the architect
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 02:47
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U could afford 3ds-I'm IMPRESSED!!!

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Olrik
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 02:49
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Well, I have Maya 4 also. You you take a wild guess. LOL
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Simple
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 02:57
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From what I can tell.. your problem is converting it to .3ds format ( which I don't think supports bones )( http://dakoren.home.attbi.com/ )

Try setting up your bone structure + anim using Milkshape and export it out using the JTdirectX exporter.

Or you could use CharacterFX ( http://www.insanesoftware.de/ ) to set up the bone structure and animation..... Then export out as a directX file OR even a Milkshape ASCII file, then use the JT exporter from Milkshape.

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 03:05
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this is getting annoying ... you really do need to read the help alot more closely and realise what system your aiming for.

3DS is a legacy format which only supports Heirachy animation, this means you have to setup the IK linking so that the envelopes only affect the individual linked mesh having a bone per mesh. This way you attach each bone effectively to each limb...
This is IF you want to export to 3D and make sure it exports the animation.

however you can use DirectX 8.1+ plugin (preferably Microsofts) which is available in the DxSDK Extra's pack, and export as a Skinned Mesh. This will retain any bone animation you've attached to the mesh - but you MUST make sure you've enveloped and weighted the faces. But thats pretty obvious with all animations within Max

i'd suggest Character Studio as well to help with this

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 03:11
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well, the way i animate, i just make the model (say several limbs to make a human model) and adjust the pivots so they move like real humans, then just move each individual limb,i guess it's just an alternative to using bones and it works fine 4 me!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 07:31
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you do animations without bones?(>>hexgear<< is that easier but give dodgy-ier end result or same as with bones, cause i really suck with bones.

what happens when you export the anim(do you get animation(s)?). And how did you export it if you got anims?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 13:20
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Raven - it would be more obvious if they read the Max manual (oohh.. shocking.. that requires owning it doesn't it? hmmm!)

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Megaman X
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 16:10
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heh

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 11th Feb 2003 23:50
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heh,

ToiletFreak:
(correct me if i'm wrong) since the animations in dark basic are based on limb movement and not mesh movement i just adjust the pivot points of each of the individual limbs (say a human, you'll have a neck limb, head limb, etc) then you just animate and rotate each individual limb the way you want to withought using any bones same kinda method used in the dark matter models (pretty sure).

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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John H
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 02:07
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To me, it seems like he pirated them both

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny : Help Wanted!
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
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indi
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 04:02
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maya is like $25000,

I tend to ignore posts like this as i dont condone the use of illegal software,especially being an accessory to the fact.

its pretty obvious that this person doesnt respect the 3d applications, so why should it be different to any other software.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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John H
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 04:44
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Indi, I agree

RPGamer

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Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 04:46
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who is the pirater you guys talking about? Olrik??

anyway,is it just using autokey with manually moving vertexs.I always thought that animation with no bones might make the object do undesireable affects(like warping).

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 13:03
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Maya is $25,000?? where the hell are you buying it from?

Maya Complete 4.5 is £1,700 from Alias|Wavefront themselves ...
Maya Unlimited 4.5 is £2,250
and Maya Builder 4.5 is £1,100!!

the only versions of Maya which cost alot now are the edited versions like Light & Magic and Pixart
(oh the companies who make the super imaginative names lmao)

Max 5.0 £3,200
Max 4.0 £1,200
Lightwave 7.5 £760
trueSpace 6.5 £820 (download the demo can grab it for £250)
SoftImage £1,450 (can grab the update for less thou)

plus there are all the freebie versions now for learning
hey i'm wondering, do the pirated versions not come with manuals? is this why we're asked all the time about things which have tutorials?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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John H
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:11
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Yea I looked up those versions last night Raven

RPGamer

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http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
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pathfinder
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:13
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the lightwave package at the mo comes with 10 training DVD's as well

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actarus
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:34
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You need more than 12 training DVD's to achieve something into that lmao! j/k I just find the software pretty annoying compared to TS,Max or Maya.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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pathfinder
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:41
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trust me after doing AutoCAD for 9 years, (the biggest pain in the ass software Ive ever come across ) few bits of software drive me crazy any more

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actarus
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:48
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AutoCAD14?

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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actarus
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 14:49
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oops...9 years lol! Must've been autoCAD R11

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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pathfinder
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 15:03
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on unix, hehe and I rejoyced when they put it on windows. Thats when the really hassle started

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 18:23
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3dmax 3.1 yeah you gotta use the pivots and move limbs. Even the pirated version comes with detailed help files...er...so I've heard.

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Megaman X
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 19:36
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yes, they come with help files...

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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actarus
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 20:58
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DO
If using_warez(all)
Then ShutshaCakehole(atleast)
LOOP


ps:This is only a joke.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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Megaman X
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 22:47
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hahahah lol

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Feb 2003 23:55
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lol... i'm confused, i guess some do and some don't eh

i like AutoCAD, well except when i'm trying to do something that it wasn't designed for - suchas trying to create game media. It's pretty outstanding when your doing architectual work, PCBs and cross-sections of devices

i've used it on and off since version 3 or 4 - even got some silly certificate that says i know it hehee ... its annoying cause it what you end up teaching the most when you go in for like 2-3week courses in colleges.
And you know everyone in that class will no doubt never use it again in thier lives

though i guess its a good point, you get that used to AutoCAD all the little anoyances in other proggies don't appear to be as much of a bother... but then again personally i can stand all of the modelling products cept Max - that one is now a very big love-hate relationship

i actually love modelling in it now, but it truely hate it still ... and the past week its been reminding me why
gotta refresher on Maya soon, because when i get back i've been told we have shiney new Maya on our machine again
opened up Maya the other day and i swear the program when "Whooshhhh!" as if it'd be closed for centuries

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pathfinder
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 01:13
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Wait till you start wanting to import mapinfo files .... Kaboom!!!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 01:18
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Ahhh... shit that reminds me - i havn't sent BigHead the map info yet ... and i've not looked at Soyez's Q3 maps

:: slowly edges to the door, as the door closes the footsteps quicken and a car is heard screeching off ::

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Olrik
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 01:41
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Yeah, pick on the new guy everyone. But atleast I am trying to do something positive. But I guess no one cares about that.
I do what I gotta do because I don't have the time to sit and R.T.F.M.
And yes, I did go thru the Forum listings and try to find something that pertained to my specific problem, but I couldn't find it. So I did a more intensive search using Copernic.
Maybe you should try knowing everything there is to know about WadEd, UnrealEd, MilkShape, QRadient, Quiver, C++, Delphi, VB6, Auto CAD, Truespace, 3D Studio Max, Maya, Poser 4, and a few others. Try to do the same thing across the board with all of them and not screw it up somehow. Then hold down an "ok" job that keeps you moving around. Then on top of that know everything there is to know about networking. And find the time to stop and tell someone over the phone why there computer doesn't work. You get tired of that same old question " Can you help me fix my computer? " I would love to tell them to go love themselves, but then I wouldn't have all the software I have. Favors for favors. You et places with who you know and what you do for them when they just want something fixed.
But all in all, it looks like I am going to have to bould my characters in 3D Studio Max, then import them into MilkShape and add the bones, then give them animation. Which is a simpler fix for my problem. I was hoping to just get away with doing it all in 3D Studio Max, but that doesn't seem possible. I am still learning Maya 4. ( Which I do have the manual. ) I am using DB because it is a little quicker and easier for me. Things are a little more simplified my my taste, and it is quicker. And yes, I bought it, instead of borrowing it from a client that doesn't care who has a copy of it.
What I would like to do is make and RPG PC Game of Werewolf. Since Whitewolf has been working on it for over a year now. I get a chance to Role Play with a few guy when I am away sometimes. Which is relaxing sometimes to get my mind off of trying to remember code to make something better than I already made it.
So don't pick on the new guys, because they seem stupid. People just don't know something and want to know it. Thats how it all work. Knowledge is power. Atleast I am not offering my services for money on the forum like I seen earlier.
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John H
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 01:56
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Use the enter key

Current - RPG: Eternal Destiny : Help Wanted!
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 02:25
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???
I don't think that people have anything against piraters(at least I don't->>if I made a game I'd be quite happy to know people pirated my game-->>>so long as I made it myself and paid no-one or at least so that I get enough money for or the license fees and crap).

don't feel so bad.

peeps got their own reasons and so it doesn't really matter unless..... someone out there..........gets pissed off......

lol.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 03:08
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well unlike you guys... who AREN'T making a living from this then obviously its just a game when you rip things off.

but i'm sorry to me piracy in any shape and form is a bigass deal - because no only do i WORK in this particular industry, but also i have ALOT of friend and family that does ... as well as i'm looking into starting my own dev/publisher house here - and i'd be more than piss'd off if some person felt that fuckin' year - year and a half of 10hr days i put in to make sure that a product is to the highest quality just downloads the damn'd thing and screws me on the money i damn'd well deserve!

And if people within the industry don't stick together and put a stop to this crap then what the hell do you think will happen in a few year down the line when companies suchas DBS want to start up?
The governments won't want to put grants into software that can barely support itself because it is cracked, demo's become too greatly limited to test these products out for fear of piracy not giving REAL insights into thier abilities...

THESE ARE PROFESSIONAL TOOLS AT PROFESSIONAL PRICES, we have to purchase these to understand them and use them - WE have to make the money just like everyone else ... what the hell gives anyone the right to fuckin' ripp them off??
DO YOU BELIEVE YOU'RE BEYOND THE LAW AND PAYING FOR A SERVICE RENDERED??

Olrik i've already told you EXACTLY howto do it, and if you still don't understand then i can see why you're having trouble - and if you are using pirated software then quite frankly i'm glad you don't understand.
It wasn't complex and is carefully explained within the damn'd help files - that is provided you have a complete help file!

If you can't handle Max or Maya or any of the others then stick to products which ARE within your budget suchas Milkshape ... which is another product which is suffering for widespread piracy!!

look Olrik i feel sorry you have to work, or atleast i would if i wasn't sitting here working my ass off on things that no doubt someone is going to pirate after release - plus i've already seen pirated version of the last title i worked on over the net already, which just greatly piss's me off. Already pirated and not out until Friday!!

God ya'll make me sick - how about i come to where you work and just steal whatever you damn'd well are working on, oh but wait i'd probably be ARRESTED FOR THAT!
Grrrr

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Toilet Freak
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 07:05
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ok, I'll take back my previous post, I'm sorry Raven Vegeta. I should refrase it then. People like me who program for fun and not make living from programming don't really care what happens Cause it's only for fun(some peeps are different) and peeps who actually work their butts of to make a decent game to sell surely got their points to the subject.

R.Vegeta's got a very good point and it makes alot of sense and one day if I actually work in the gaming industry will probably come to respect that and come to agree(maybe, since I don't actually work in it yet... I'm hoping though...in years to come).



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pathfinder
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 14:51
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Hardly worth arguing about. People that use pirate stuff have already justified it to themselves. The people that use pirate software arnt skum, they really just dont see the whole picture. Heres my take

The money I pay for a product goes towards company growth and development. Which in turn produces a better product.

Now saying this, I do think its about time all these stupid companies should introduce pay monthly subscriptions. I think Adobe was going to do this with photoshop? an online version that charges you by the hour? now thats visionary.

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actarus
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Personally,I find it simple...

When I go to the store,I don't take anything I won't be paying for even if the opportunity not to get caught comes along.

Now I'm not talking about Cash-Deposit truck who'd've let a bag'a used money slip out the door right in front of me. That's a bit different and temptful for anyone...No one's ethics are above that(except maybe for Lisa Simpson's lol!)

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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pathfinder
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thats the problem though isnt it? Its just like having a wad of cash sticking out of a cash machine ready to be taken. Only difference is no one seems to kick anyones arses over it.

Ive never owned a Pirate copy of any product, everything Ive got is the real thing baby, yeah

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Feb 2003 20:22
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except for Lisa Simpson ... hahaa
guess i get piss'd of more but all of this than most, i mean your right Actarus if someone dropped a huge bag of money infront of me from a truck all unmarked, it would be a doozy of what to do wouldn't it. Pick it up and take it for myself, pick it up and hand it in, or leave it there and let someone else take the fall if someone comes looking for it?

But then again the point is negated cause personally i have a problem using money i havn't earnt ... i dunno, i mean lots of girlfriends have bitched at me cause i won't let them pay for anything for me - same goes for my family, but that probably more because i enjoy being awkard about things than ethics (or not i dunno lol)

i do feel if someone has taken the effort to make something worthwhile that i want to use then its worth while me paying them for a job well done .. i mean if you don't like it you can always get you money back and give it back can't you?
most companies now have a 10-30day money back gaurentee

and yeah agree with pathfinder, that with products like Max for example we're paying them knowing that there will be another version, the more money they get the more work they can put into improving these products - so really its more of an investment to have something easier and more powerful a year or two down the line
i mean if you notice its the companies that have the outragously large development teams which generally cost the most

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Toilet Freak
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well said peeps. lol

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dreamcrawler
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I find this discussion stupid. If i ask/reply something, I wont ask if the software is legal and i wont tell if I legally own it or not. Just because this is a darkbasic forum, not a "what do you think about piracy" forum.

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