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Geek Culture / Another london incident?

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:00 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 23:02
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American news just came on with some approately vauge information about a possible "london incident." Camera showed what looked like a double decker bus stopped on the road along with an ambulance, couldn't see anything else, but they said that the roads had been shut down for something like two/five blocks around it.

Everything the news peeps said was very vauge about what was happening, but I mean ya gotta wonder...


edit: oh yeah and I almost forgot, three london subways had been evacuated also


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Dave J
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:02
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Yeah, it's on down here as well, apparently someone saw a package explode so they've shutdown the train stations as well and are expecting more attacks.


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Hawkeye
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:03 Edited at: 21st Jul 2005 23:14
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Ah here we go:
http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=bd1be605-0714-4666-bdf5-7728cdbe413e


edit: and
http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?/base/international-14/1121945104260510.xml&storylist=international

and google news:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=london&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d


This is getting seriuosly scary :S Looks like the "bomb", if that's what it was, exploded prematurely however...


edit3: now they're talking about a bomb that blew out the windows of a double decker bus


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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:35
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What! not again.

there's a lot to be said for unspeakable acts...
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BatVink
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:46
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Sounds like amateur copycats. They should still get the same punishment as a real terrorist, if that is what they are.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 21st Jul 2005 23:55
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http://www.bbc.co.uk

Don't bother checking US or Canadian news, always check BBC.co.uk!

Nothing really serious this time, though.


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Hawkeye
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 00:01
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Quote: "The minor explosions used detonators only, a BBC reporter said."

Newb terroists


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Oneka
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 02:13 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2005 02:13
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Heh... didnt I say in a post that a few weeks ago europe would be bombed again...but no one believes me...I said it in a post or IRC I forget which one...

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Robin
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 21:14
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Has anyone seen the news this morning - apparently plain clothed policemen shot dead someone on the underground. They were chasing him and he jumped over the ticket barrier and tried to get onto a train before he was pinned to the ground and shot 5 times.

The four attempted bombers from yesterday must still be somewhere alive in London...perhaps that was one of them trying to bomb the tube again...

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 21:17
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possibly - I love London!

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Robin
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 21:20
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I'm moving to london in september to start uni...I hope I never get caught up in something like this...it's terrible

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BatVink
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 22:56
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Quote: "They were chasing him and he jumped over the ticket barrier and tried to get onto a train"


It's about time they clamped down on Fare Dodgers

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Neofish
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 23:56
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when i first saw it, it sounded like the 4 bombers had mis-detonated their bombs so they hadn't gone off

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2005 23:58
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Actually, they didn't even have bombs, all they had was detnators


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 00:24
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I have heard there were bombs - but they hadn't been setup properly. This is what BBC News told me at 6.30 this morning. Maybe thats why witnesses heard one of them curse just before the small bang when the detonator went off because he realised something was wrong, like a lose wire or something? I'm just guesssing.

@Batvink:
Quote: "It's about time they clamped down on Fare Dodgers"

LMAO!!! Very true - Sets a good example too when you fire 5 bullets into someone you just trapped on the floor. All the people on the train better have been offered councelling because if they hadn't, the police and london underground have lined themselves up for lots of lovely lawsuits!!

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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 00:49
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yes, joking aside, I can't imagine what it must be like for someone sat quietly on a train to suddenly be witness to something like that.

Many people wouldn't think much about what these people have gone through because of TV and films, but to see it in real life must be very frightening.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 04:04 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 11:14
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Exeat's Mod Edit: Sorry, no swearing!


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 04:10
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Thats.. Nice... Err.. Well..

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 05:36
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[woah, you can't just post a smiley without getting the caps lock warning ]


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Keaz
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 05:42
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Depends on the smiley

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Keaz
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 05:42 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 05:44
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Keaz
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2005 05:43 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2005 05:44
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That's strange no smiley?

[Edit] Made a mistake.

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soapyfish
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Posted: 24th Jul 2005 07:46 Edited at: 24th Jul 2005 07:48
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Just seen it on BBC news. The person shot was completely innocent. I'll go get a link.

EDIT:: Here you go.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4711021.stm

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Benjamin
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Posted: 24th Jul 2005 11:54
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Trigger happy idiots..... still, you can't be too carefull. Though you would think one bullet would be enough. Maybe the policeman just didn't have very good aim..


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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Jul 2005 16:25
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It's very difficult to shoot a moving target.


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Hawkeye
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Posted: 24th Jul 2005 21:43
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I can understand both sides--on the one hand, at least the officers challenged him first, but on the other hand, if you were a)late for a hot date and b)being chased by 20 people wearing street clothes and carrying guns, what would you do? Times are already uncertain, the poor guy probally wasn't thinking stright, i.e. "ah crap I'm late! wha, a gang? or terroists? OMG! at least they aren't after me, best not be any more late, etc. etc."


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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 00:02
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Quote: " It's very difficult to shoot a moving target."

I thought he tripped and was on the floor. Mind you, I just heard they had to shoot him in the head(because if he did have a bomb strapped to him, shooting him in the body might set it off).

Hawkeye: Yeah thats what I'm thinking.


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R2D2s Jilted Lover
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 00:05 Edited at: 25th Jul 2005 00:05
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I heard they shot him in the head FIVE times! FIVE times!! twice maybe but FIVE!?

im just a simple peasant...
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 00:29
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In their shoes, I would have done the same in a second.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 00:51
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What? Fired 5 shots? Man, your fingers must be responsive


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soapyfish
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 03:06 Edited at: 25th Jul 2005 03:07
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Regulations state that they must shout a warning before opening fire and aim for the chest because it's the largest area.

However, becuase of the risk of people strapping explosivs to themselves police have now been told it's acceptable to shoot someone in the head. (As Benjamin said)

Why in the name of all things holy they shot him 5 times is beyond me, but under the current circumstances it would probably be understandable.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 03:39
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Would you rather shoot someone in the head and with their last dying pulse of nervous twitch they pull the trigger on a tube full of people possibly killing hundred, or would you rather shoot the terrorist 5 times to make sure that doesn't happen?

Problem is - he wasn't a terrorist... Its a shame really, the problem with terrorism is you cant win against it. This whole incident pretty much probes that a terrorist looks exactly like you, me and everyone else. You only find out they're a terrorist when they go bang! :-(

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 04:07 Edited at: 25th Jul 2005 04:08
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This is very sad.

I can see both sides - it realy is a no-win situation.

Any enquiry should look into the intelligence that led to police believing this man was a suicide bomber.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 04:30
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Then what? It wont change anything. The man is still dead. It was a split second decision. Kill 1 man that might be a bombed who would kill hundreds. If you dont kill him, more might die, if you do kill him, 100 people could be saved.

Now i'm not saying its RIGHT in anyway and my heart goes out to his family and friends for the sensless loss.. But, the kill was done with the best "intent".

One way of stopping or reducing terrorism in the UK would be if Mr Blair stopped p***ing other countries off! I still dont believe we should have gone to war with Iraq. I also believe we should not be providing a home to these extreme preachers who mindwash these people into doing this. They dont provide anything constructive to our community and most of them live of tax payers money!

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 04:42
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Quote: "Then what? It wont change anything. The man is still dead."


But those police didn't follow and shoot for no reason. They were told this man was likely a suicide bomber. Now we know that the intelligence was faulty so an inquiry needs to look into wether the it was incompetence on the part of those gathering intelligence or just an unavoidable mistake.

There's is to much attention on the pliceman who shot him and not enough on those that provided the wrong information.


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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 04:47
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Nicholas Thompson, I 100% agree.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 05:07
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I blame lawyers

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soapyfish
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 08:07
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He was already under surveillance and he ran when challenged by the police. Ofcourse that's what the police say, it's anyone's guess whether this is the truth or not.

Whichever way you look at it, the terrorists won. They may not have done exactly what they planned but they've caused a lot of panic as a result of which someone has lost their life and they are all still out there somewhere.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 10:06
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*agrees with everything soapyfish just said*


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Keaz
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 10:37
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Maybe suicide terrorists will threaten bombs so that we shoot them and make them a martyr. Clearly our way of thinking on this subject has too change. Violence shouldn't be used unless they a 100% sure. If a mistake is made, their is NO excuse for this kind of circumstance. If it means an innocent loses their life then it was the wrong decision.

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Oneka
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 10:39
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Ya know I dont really think it is because of blair its really they want to break morale I mean they bombed spain too what did they do?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 12:50
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Quote: "I mean they bombed spain too what did they do?"

Er, invaded Iraq maybe?


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Oneka
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 13:17
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well cheese sticks still...they are stupid...

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 19:01
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@Keaz - I agree there is no excuse for killing an innocent, however suppose they worked in the principle that they "thought" he might be a terrorist, but they weren't 100% sure.. They had sources say there was a bomb on him and he was headed for the underground. You have abgout 1 minute to decide whether you can risk not killing him. If you dont kill him and he is a terrorist and he gets on the train, blows up 100 people and the press find out that the police knew about the terrorist and did nothing then all hell breaks lose. Then again - if you do kill him and he is an innocent, all hell breaks lose. Basically, you have a very slim chance of winning in this situation - but have have to ask yourself "is this gamble worth the risk?".. ie, if I dont gamble, 100 people could die or none could die. If I DO gamble its a certainty that 1 person dies. Be honest Keaz - which would you chose? You potentially have 100 peoples lives at the tip of your index finger...

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Oneka
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 21:57
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why dknt that have tranquilizer gun? coulda save some live >_>

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Flashing Blade
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Posted: 25th Jul 2005 23:44
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Tranquilizers not instant.

Wonder if they could make some kind of tranquilizer that travels along the nerve system and knocks out instantly. That would be win-win - innocents live, terrorists can be interigated to crack cells.


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Jeku
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 01:08
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Yah it's called a taser gun. The cops here use them all the time. Knocks you down and sends you into uncontrollable spasms, in which you generally lose control of all of your limbs.

But like I said, it's incredible difficult to hit a moving target, and multiply the difficulty when you're running, too.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 01:44
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And the tazer projectiles are on string - so the probably arc more due to more friction? So not only do you have to fire at a moving target, you also have to allow for projectile-ness

I think everyone in the world should have special ankle clips install and at the touch of a button it spams you nervous system so it hurts like hell and makes you a twitching wreck. It will be the law that everyone has these installed and the control server for these is on an unsecured windows based system. The client software also comes as standard with windows.

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Oneka
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Posted: 26th Jul 2005 09:00
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Mark of the beast

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