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Geek Culture / TCPA and how they will take the freedom from small programs and the net

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yuumei
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 13:53
TCPA is the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance, it is made up, at the moment of 170+ large companies that intend to "standardize" the internet. Guess what, it includes "Microsoft"!

I cannot begin to tell you the whole of the story, so just go here:


http://www.againsttcpa.com

This means that they will eventually control the internet, and make programs that we make, need royalties to operate!
Dave J
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 14:44
A threat from years ago that will most likely eventuate into nothing.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 15:51
Quote: "A threat from years ago that will most likely eventuate into nothing."


See the funny thing is that the TCPA is a large conglomeration of companies that are loosing billion a year from piracy.
What you might be interested to know is that Trusted-Platforms are now quite wide spread and these companies have already started taking advantage.

Microsoft have been using it in a far more obvious mannor, while Adobe have been using it to track the piracy problem so they can come up with a solution.

No matter who it is, the fact is that TCPA Software and Hardware is already in use and not just talk or some 'masterplan'. On the whole I don't see it as a bad thing.

If you think that this is just some 'world domination' plan, with perhaps the exception of Microsoft trying to make Trusted-Platforms the only legal hardware in the United State ... this purely is the big companies way of fighting back at piracy.

The typical public reaction was "Boo! They're trying to control us.", which is bollocks. Just pay for the product your using and you have nothing to worry about you thieving retards.

TCPA companies are pushing for keyloggers in your keyboards sending signals back to thier HQ spying on your every movement. If you don't want someone doing that, then don't buy DELL.
(Seriously, DELL do put Keyloggers in thier hardware)

So yeah let's all boo the progress of trying to actually keep the industry from going under because some retard has gone out created himself 100 copies of Half-Life 2 and is selling them for £10 which is a bargin over the £25 they charge in the shops! It's alright though, I mean your buying it from someone. :rolls eyes:

GothOtaku
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 16:14
I hate that site because I read the CBDPTA after hearing about it on another forum and that site totally misinforms about what the TCPA is and what it's used for (they link to a lot of anti-TCPA sites but not even a copy of the bill used to enforce it). First off, all code used in developement of something like this as mandated by the CBDPTA will be open-source so open-source operating systems won't get killed off. Second, you can still use non-TCPA compliant software so, again, open-source will not be killed off, you can still program your own stuff, and all your old stuff will work too. The only thing that they're correct about is that third-party hardware from smaller companies will be effected.

Here's a copy of the proposed bill: http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/hollings.s2048.032102.html
David R
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 16:22 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 16:23
They'll NEVER, EVER stop large scale piracy.

Just take a look at the 'Genuine Windows advantage' thing, that officially started on the 26th of July. It was cracked in 24 hours - and do you want to know why? Its because these guys who piarte stuff don't just pirate for the sake of it they see it as a challenge; a way of showing off how clever they are.

It doesn't matter how much they standardize, they'll always be someone who can 'crack the codes' as such

(funny thing on IRC last night; there was a pic of linux PC, showing Genuine M$ web page thing. The page said 'Genuine Windows Platform' )

Quote: "If you don't want someone doing that, then don't buy DELL. "

Phew! Running a custom build here!

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 16:38
Quote: "(Seriously, DELL do put Keyloggers in thier hardware)"


You Do realise it was a hoax?

Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 17:22
Quote: "You Do realise it was a hoax?"


Realise what was a hoax?
DELL have legally approved key-logging hardware in thier PCs. What you scared they're stealing your MSN Chats

Somehow I doubt it's in there for spying purposes, probably more there for adsencing and such. Cheap and effective market research.
Sounds like traditional DELL to me. I mean their entire sodding technical support staff were all moved to india/pakistan like 4years ago. They provide you with the cheapest solutions at the minimal most cost to themselves.

Market Research done by 3rd parties generally costs somewhere in the region of $125,000 per report. Soon adds up and it doesn't equal the same to what thier previous users like and don't.

: shrugs : If you care for the paranoia then keep on with it. I suppose the pop-up's that happen with Windows XP default installation are just created by Microsoft to make you ring technical support to have them turned of. All just a big ploy.

Care for your tin-foil hat back?

Ridiculous how either people believe something is a conspiricy or a hoax. (or both)

They'll NEVER, EVER stop large scale piracy.

Quote: "Just take a look at the 'Genuine Windows advantage' thing, that officially started on the 26th of July. It was cracked in 24 hours - and do you want to know why? Its because these guys who piarte stuff don't just pirate for the sake of it they see it as a challenge; a way of showing off how clever they are."


That's still software based, and it's not even hard to beat.
If I check my copy of Windows XP online it fails because I use a Corporate License and it fails, if I download the authenticator and use that one it succeeds.

I find it stupid myself. This whole Geniune Windows push is mainly because of the bloody China and India markets to, they equate to over 75% of the entire worlds piracy. I mean how sickening is that?

Personally the sooner they push out Vista with Hardware Security the better. While you can say 'well they'll crack it eventually', sorry but the only way you can crack Hardware protection is by modifying the hardware to bypass it.

You can do this very easily on the Playstation, Playstation 2, X-Box because it's simply part of the ROM BIOS. Hell you could just flash it. Difference with PC/Mac Hardware Protection is that it's part of the x86/PPC Processors.

Good luck modding them
Even if you don't in order to break the protection you'd have to break a hardware-based AES 4096-bit System running with several I/O Keys, two/three for lock or unlock. So breaking the system like that even software wouldn't be a walk in the park. Processor power required to strong arm something like that, well if you consider that a 128-bit AES takes around 3 hours on a 3.2GHz Pentium D, and a 1024-bit can take as long as 2 weeks on the same hardware. How long do you think just 1 4096-bit would take?

As it's hardware and built-in to the device means that it's practically instant to get results rather than even the built time for something like that on again a Pentium D 3.2GHz would be the best part of 10 minutes, same for the check.

But they're welcome to try.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 17:58
Could you provide a link please?

David R
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 17:59
Quote: "Good luck modding them
Even if you don't in order to break the protection you'd have to break a hardware-based AES 4096-bit System running with several I/O Keys, two/three for lock or unlock. So breaking the system like that even software wouldn't be a walk in the park. Processor power required to strong arm something like that, well if you consider that a 128-bit AES takes around 3 hours on a 3.2GHz Pentium D, and a 1024-bit can take as long as 2 weeks on the same hardware. How long do you think just 1 4096-bit would take?

As it's hardware and built-in to the device means that it's practically instant to get results rather than even the built time for something like that on again a Pentium D 3.2GHz would be the best part of 10 minutes, same for the check."


Thats exactly what was said about product activation when XP came out; 'Good luck breaking through that'. Look how wrong they are now. You can always garuntee on some flaw etc. that allows software pirating to succeed.



[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 18:02
You'd have to find the online version yourself. It's part of the EULA of my brother's DELL Notebook, as he currently lives 250miles away it isn't something easy to pick up and read.

I still can't find jack all with this new MSN Search, just as littler as ever with google. You've always been one who seemed better with a search engine.

Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 18:05
Quote: "You've always been one who seemed better with a search engine."


Very true, but maybe my abilities have been dulled with the ever pervading stench of you BS

GothOtaku
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 18:13
http://www.marlow.dk/site.php/tech/privacy-600m

A response to a post at a forum that was returned as the second result from searching Yahoo! for "dell keylogging".
Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 18:44
Which is the hoax I mentioned

Quote: "Ridiculous how either people believe something is a conspiricy or a hoax. (or both)"


a hoax is ridiculous? how?

but Im looking for Ravens claim that Dell have legally approved key logging Hardware. As I find that statement rather questionable and would like to see for myself.
Does anyone have a Dell Eula that can shine light on this? for once its not purely because Raven is a gimp it is more out of curiosity.

GothOtaku
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 19:24
It's a hoax, the link I posted says so too. The images on the original site were taken from another one and were not originally from his laptop, the DHS letter was taken from a news article, it's most likely totally illegal, there's been no other account of a keylogger being found, and it doesn't make sence since what if they use the dialup modem or a PCMIA ethernet card?
David R
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 19:27 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 19:29
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/kb/en/document?dn=1088514&c=us&l=en&cs=&s=gen
Just lookign for the entire EULA

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 19:27 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 19:29
Exactly my point but Ravens brothers Eula says otherwise apparently, which is what im curious about.

Er thats not the actual Eula just a guide on what to do with it.

lol it seems we edited in unison

David R
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 19:31 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 19:32
Here's the full thing

http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html

EDIT: That's not it, sorry Still searching

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
yuumei
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 20:32
Whoa, sorry. I was just pointing it out. !
I dont know weather it will ever happen, but i just thought i should point it out.

^^*

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