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Geek Culture / Quake 3 source released

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Phaelax
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:06 Edited at: 20th Aug 2005 19:44
Not yet, but it will be.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/641/641567p1.html


DOWNLOAD
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/38305

(I hate fileshack)

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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:10 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 20:13
Finally! I still think ID is waaay better than the Creators of HL2; And this proves it
David R
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:13
lol, you don't even now the names of ' the Creators of HL2', so how can you even begin to compare them




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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:16
Do I care? I dis-liked Half-Life, and Half-Life 2 was all Hype. I would have to agree with raven. Besides, not every one remembers the name of the producers. In fact, if it says Valve on it, I wouldnt use it. I mean the story line was ok, but CS:S was the only reason I bought it (multiplayer). The entire game sucks. BAD. Especially with steam.
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:21 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 20:21
I just find it funny how John Carmack is talking about how you can't have all these extra things and sacrifice gameplay, but HL/2 is all about the puzzles, and in HL2 they let you play with the gravity gun so you could conserve ammo for your big toys until you found a really big guy to shoot, whereas in Doom 3 the whole thing was pretty much the same thing over and over again it just looked a hell of a lot better. I don't know, there's just something about standing up and speaking whatever comes to mind for the duration of your speech that makes you sound like you're a load of BS, or that you're just wanting to b***h about things and you don't care if anybody agrees with you or not--then that makes you sound like you really don't give a damn about games in general.


Can't wait to see that source though.


I'm going to eat you!
David R
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:32
The following line is alledged to be inside the code;

Const_Define{ 024x000xb00b5

Can garuntee its loaded with tons of wry commented humour.... I hope


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 20:59 Edited at: 13th Aug 2005 21:00
After playing HL2 and Doom3..the entire thing goes to Doom 3. Mainly because HL2 Sucked ass in the fun department. I find it fun to kill zombie hords or monsters from hell. Sure Gravity gun was ok...but It got boring. Dont even try to understand what I am saying if you want to fight or argue. Everyone has there opinions, and I wont change sides.
and on teh code: This will still be better than paying 5000$ for unreal license or such.
Raven
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 22:10
Don't twist my words to your own end.
I simply said that Half-Life 2 wasn't as good as the hype. I still bloody enjoy both games and they are awesome in thier own right.

Just because I didn't bend down and worship it as the 'best game ever' with everyone else doesn't mean I thought they were bad in any-way. You know games don't have to be the best thing since sliced break or crap. There are quite a few stages in-between them.

If you wanna be hating the Half-Life games your doing it on your own.

Undercover Steve
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 22:16
I said I would have to agree with you in some ends. If I didnt say that, thats what I meant.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Aug 2005 23:17
You played HL2 and you can't even remember a name like "Valve"?


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 00:33
Thats how much I hate it. Besides, It was pretty early in the morning when I made that post!
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 00:50
That doesn't make a shred of sense...isn't it more likly you'll remember the name of the developer if you hate it so much?


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Undercover Steve
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 01:10
no, I would recognise it if I saw its name.
Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 06:50
I hate Blizzard personally. I have to give them credit though, they do produce fantastic games, but the company itself and how they run certain things is what i hate.

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Dave J
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 07:28
Quote: "I hate Blizzard personally. I have to give them credit though, they do produce fantastic games, but the company itself and how they run certain things is what i hate."


Like what? My own opinion is that the company has an excellent corporate culture.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 09:00
You can't hate games like these. You can recognize some shortcomings, but to completely hate is just idiotic.

Just realize both are excellent, and if you're going to choose one zombie killing game then choose Resident Evil 4.

Actually, how about we talk about the Quake 3 engine?


I'm going to eat you!
Grog Grueslayer
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 10:46
Quote: "I hate Blizzard personally. I have to give them credit though, they do produce fantastic games, but the company itself and how they run certain things is what i hate."


EA is worse. Take over a great company called Origin, let the former owner of the company work for a bit to develop UO, fire him, then turn UO... a game with a cool history into this horrible mix of medieval castles and dojos.

Oh well... it was good for a while at least.

I really, really hated it when Sierra took over Dynamix too.
Killswitch
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 15:48
What is the Quake 3 engine written in, C++?

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Raven
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 15:53
Multi-Platform C++, just like Quake 2. In-fact the engines are very similar overall.

Quake 3 is more like Quake 2 Enhanced.
Should be cool once it's finally released, though might be good to note Carmack said this was due out in December. Only Doom 3's launch pushed it back. Although this turned out not to be the reason why it was delayed.

Something to note from Carmack's keynote was on his take on the new technologies. I like NVIDIA Cards as much as the next fanboy, but Carmack claiming the Playstation 3 was 'untouchable' is going a little further than even I would go. Especially given it's still on the first design set to change.

Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 15:58
Quote: "Do I care? I dis-liked Half-Life, and Half-Life 2"


Why do you hate them they rule!

See you at the convention!
Jeku
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 19:50
Quote: "Like what? My own opinion is that the company has an excellent corporate culture."


Blizzard isn't even around anymore, in any form that it once was. I wouldn't exactly call that a great corporate culture


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
Ian T
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 21:08
Every single person who ever worked on Diablo or Diablo 2 is now gone from Blizzard. Now much greatness left there.

I'm looking forward to Roper's new project

If I looking for blog
David R
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 21:28
Who was the guy who went joined Pete Molyneux to help him create Black & White II?

I know he worked at Blizzard, and he's got a very memorable name - but I cannot remember it


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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 23:02
The thing that Blizzard started doing to make me mad was how they did everything they could to prevent ppl from having fun on Diablo. I'm not talking about removing dupes or hacked items, but other items. If a particular rune word got popular, they removed it. If you managed to fight your way into becoming a great warrior, the next patch made your guy useless.

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Deadwords
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Posted: 14th Aug 2005 23:09
Quote: "I hate Blizzard personally. I have to give them credit though, they do produce fantastic games, but the company itself and how they run certain things is what i hate."


i agree. at my side, i'm personally like Ubisoft Montreal. Not just because i live there. Just because they make awsome games and they are very social.

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 00:42
I agree with Skalex --- Ubisoft must be one of the last great large game production companies. My wife wants to move to Montreal eventually and I will definitely consider applying at Ubisoft

My French is awfully shady, but I hope they don't mind much


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
David R
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 00:49 Edited at: 15th Aug 2005 00:50
Quote: "I agree with Skalex --- Ubisoft must be one of the last great large game production companies. My wife wants to move to Montreal eventually and I will definitely consider applying at Ubisoft
"


Hmmm... Ubisoft is ok. Though I'm getting rather tired of their range of games. They haven't really got any 'novel' studios that they publish (nothing new and fresh that I can think of at least)

The only development studio that has had more than a 'one hit wonder' that I actually like is Lionhead Studios Good thing is, its not too far away from me either (surrey 'o course).

I've also applied to do work experience there for next year Meetin' the legendary Pete Molyneux himself wouldn't be half bad.

(Apparently his signature is a secret spell gesture in Black & White by the way. If only I knew his signature!)


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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 10:04
I wish Looking Glass Studios was still around.

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Van B
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 11:05
I just played through HL2 finally after buying it the day after release and it not working on my hardware - I must say that I was pleasantly surprised. The thing that captured me with HL and HL2 is the environments, they are believable and you get sucked right in - I thought that there was far too many gravity gun related puzzles and they we're all mindless things really, but at least I did'nt have to note locker numbers all through the game.

I much prefered it to Doom3.

Counterstrike:Source is pretty good too, been playing team games with my bro against bots mainly as I find most online players too deadly - the bots put up a reasonable fight, it's nice to kill like 5 bots per round instead of spotting 1 human player before my brains hit the wall.

This could be very good news for the more advanced handheld users out there, heck you can even get Quake for the Palm Tungsten!, handheld Q3 would be a blast.


Van-B

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David T
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 11:44
Quote: "What is the Quake 3 engine written in, C++?"


Nope, pure DBPro. Generated some much needed sales back when it was released!

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Dave J
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Posted: 15th Aug 2005 16:25
Quote: "Blizzard isn't even around anymore, in any form that it once was. I wouldn't exactly call that a great corporate culture "


Good to see sarcasm hasn't gone astray, then again, we are on the internet.


"Computers are useless, they can only give you answers."
Deadwords
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 05:36
Quote: "Nope, pure DBPro. Generated some much needed sales back when it was released!"


i hope you're kidding, right? DBPro was not realeased at the time...i think

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ionstream
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 05:49
It was written in C, John Carmack thinks OOP is the devil.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 06:20
he's such an odd man...very opionated, and lets everyone know it

I just got HL2 last week, and have had D3 since the day it came out.

I'll tell you what, i loved and still love d3 since i bought it. It's more of a horror game. I dont care what you guys say, i was freaked out, and i liked it a lot, rather linear tho, not many side things you can do, but the graphics were the most amaizing.

Now HL2, after a week of playing for a week, it is one of the most amaizing FPS ever made, not nessisarrily better than D3, because they're truly two different games and you can NOT compare them. I personally think D3 has better graphics, HL2's people are almost just lame (maybe not lame, i was just expecting more out of them, i have a Radeon 9800 pro) the environment is amaizing, but the thing that has me on this game, is the Physics engine. Source has the most AMAIZING physics engine EVER made...i dont care what you guys say.

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Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 08:11
Quote: "Quote: "Nope, pure DBPro. Generated some much needed sales back when it was released!"

i hope you're kidding, right? DBPro was not realeased at the time...i think
"


It was a joke

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Raven
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 18:04
Quote: "It was written in C, John Carmack thinks OOP is the devil."


No, it was written in C++
Carmack doesn't think OOP is bad, he just never felt the overhead was worth the benefits.

Given he coded the Quake Engine without any OO in less than 18months this includes 3 major rewrites from scratch. (along with Romero and Abrush) it's pretty fair to say, that as far as his comments went about Object Programming ... really it wouldn't have added much in terms of coding speed over program speed.

Quake 2 has some Object Programming in it, not much though. Mostly the interfaces were Objects the rest were still standard interfaces.

Quake 3 added much larger class based Object Programming over the C Interfaces. Some sections were still Assembly level though in order to keep compatibility and speed.

Doom 3 is almost full OO, and it shows compared to his old engines. Carmack might be a genius when it comes to programming, but as far as optimisation goes; he is still learning.

This is why on the other projects guys like Micheal Abrush were brought on-board. Because Carmack can make awesome code, but someone needs to refine it in order for it to run on a reasonable computer specification.

This years QuakeCon speech (watched the video for last nite) really shows how Carmack in particular is out of touch with modern gamers.
He is still trying to make games for my Generation of gamers. Those people who bought and played Wolf3D, Blake Stone, etc.

He isn't looking at the market as it is now. Valve on the other hand know exactly how the market is right now and are playing it just how they want to.

Each day you look at Valve evolving it's clear to see thier roots showing more and more. Difference is, they're actually learning and evolving as the industry does. They've embraced the Mod market better than iD has.

I mean iD made modifiable engines, but they're still highly specialised. Source on the other hand has been designed as a much broader and tuneable engine to fit to any situation; much like the Unreal 2.X Engine. There is also quite alot of back'n'forth between Valve and Mod Teams.

I for one have recently been talking with them, actually gettin responses to my questions FROM the team. Where'as with iD Software, your lucky for it to be acknowlaged on iddev.net in the FAQ.

Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 might on thier own be reasonable games, but in all honesty. Not many gamers are amped getting Half-Life 2 because of Half-Life 2. Sure many people got it, played it, loved it. But the biggest part of Half-Life 2 was you got Counter-Strike: Source. That is the biggest reason many people bought the game.

That is the biggest reason why the game is just so damn popular.
The original was popular, but it never really took off in that whole phenomenom it became, until Counter-Strike and Day of Defeat.

The online Mod culture made it what it is. Valve aren't denying that at all.. they know they have a good game, but they also know that more than anything the fans are what keeps it great. Keep the fans happy, make them feel that Valve are part of the culture. Rather than on some pedestal looking down at the peon gamers.

That's what makes them far more popular. As I said, Carmack is out of touch with the gamers. Not sure if he will personally ever be back in-touch with them.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 18:17
Counter-Strike source was the reason I got HL2.

I mean, HL2 is just one big gay ride on that boat-bike thing with far, far, far, far, far too many gravity gun and contrived physics "puzzles" along the way.

Most over hyped game ever, except MGS2.

Katie Holmes says, check the Program Announcements board for the new Dumbo & Cool demo.
Jeku
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 22:29
And then there's me on the other side of the fence. I haven't touched Counter-Strike Source since its release, and still play through HL2 even after completing it. I happen to enjoy the puzzles, because it reminds of playing the old adventures games from the 80's and 90's.

And Raven, how can Doom 3 show that it's object oriented? Have you looked at their code? :-P


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
David R
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Posted: 16th Aug 2005 22:41
Quote: "And then there's me on the other side of the fence. I haven't touched Counter-Strike Source since its release, and still play through HL2 even after completing it. I happen to enjoy the puzzles, because it reminds of playing the old adventures games from the 80's and 90's."


I still play the original Half-life 1. Redefined FPS games if you ask me.


Phaelax
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 19:42
Well here it is guys, the source code!

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/38305

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Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 13:32
"Quake 3 is more like Quake 2 Enhanced."
I was about to laugh at that statement but then I pulled out my old Quake 2 disc to get ideas for low poly guns for Quikly game pro, and I have to say wow its an amazingly competant engine, and theres not much Q3 can do that Q2 can't... Seriously impressive game, I'd forgotten how cool it was. In fact as a single player game it outshines Q3 in every way.

That said Q3 source being released is very good news for everyone, I love the way Id does this regularly, so we can see the inner workings of their twisted minds :S

As for Doom 3 and HL2, I enjoyed both of them, but felt that both were seriously over hyped and both sufferred from some bad continuity problems whilst playing. Doom 3s graphics are in my opinon much nicer and more atmospheric but the variety and placement of the physics are very poor compared with HL2, so its just swings and roundabouts. As said previously, just because a game doesn't live up to the Hype doesn't make it a bad game, and this is the case with HL2 and Doom3.

Cheers, Sam

Raven
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 22:47
Yeah, I got some time to check over the Quake3 source properly earlier today (finally)

I knew the design was close but it's just crazy how much. The main changes are in the Rendering, Animation, and BSP. Even then only the Rendering has changed much. The rest are just minor alterations.

It's obvious the engine has been rewritten from the ground up, neater and such. Still very close. Quake2 is by far one of my most favoured open source game engines. So versitile despite it's age.

Shame really no one ever did much with it unlike the Quake and Quake 3 Engines.

Kangaroo2 BETA2
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 23:11
Yes the Quake 2 Engine is amazingly versatile for its age, I'd forgotten how pioneering it was for the time. I do like the bsp system for Quake 3 though, very tight.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 13:06 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2005 13:24
Quote: "John Carmack thinks OOP is the devil."


That makes 2 of us then

[edit] The quake1 engine can do alot more than people think. Just look at QMB and the likes. Really impressive to me for such an "ancient" engine.

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