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Newcomers DBPro Corner / How to do tiles?

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Ad87am
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 14:55
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I have read thru some posts and found out about tiles. I have no idea what this means or how to do it but i figured that it has something to do with scrolling games. Can anyone help plz?

http://www.Bevansfunbox.com
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Ad87am
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 18:38
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Actually dont worry about it now, I have recived 3D studio Max 7, Hopefully I should be able to make some stuff out of that now!!

http://www.Bevansfunbox.com
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Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 18:53
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ok.. don't worry so..
'cause tiles are sprites

The worst foe lies within the self..
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Ad87am
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 22:58
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I was actually reading about the "matrix" bits, seems tricky to fully inderstand it, but i should be able to make 3D levels and use them right?

http://www.Bevansfunbox.com
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Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 23:51 Edited at: 21st Aug 2005 00:20
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Ok.. now I understand what you mean..
You wanna manipulate the matrix's tiles to make
levels, with buildings, etc..

Actually it is impossible, because the matrix is
a DBP object and is much different than terrain (an object)..
So matrix's vertices have no 100% editable data..
And I don't think it is possible to put a tile above
other tile.. So it is actually impossible to make
a 90° wall of something like that..

Anyway, matrixes are not good for levels (a matrix
with 50x50 tiles slows downs the program much more
than an object with the same triangles count)..

I think that matrixes were the most anti-professional
idea from TGC.. But it is still useful for beginners
who wanna make small landscapes.. or to make a simple
cartoon water effect or a not so large shifting matrix
(it is still slower than an animated object)..

So don't get crazy due that.. matrixes are too weighed..


Of course I'm not the best person for helping you with
matrixes because, as you see, I don't use them..
They are really weighed..

The worst foe lies within the self..
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Ad87am
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Posted: 20th Aug 2005 23:58
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um.......?

http://www.Bevansfunbox.com
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Louiz ofRohr
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 00:08 Edited at: 21st Aug 2005 00:12
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hehe.. sorry.. I was editing the post

Matrix's bits?
Where did you read about that?
Is it about positioning each matrix's vertice?
If it is possible, so making full leves with matrixes is
possible..

but.. slow..

The worst foe lies within the self..
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Ad87am
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 00:26
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Oh i didnt know, i just wanted to make a simple 2D background and then make it loop, thought that a matrix would help, but i understand that it does not now. I was in the process of learning about it untill I recieved 3D Studio Max 7!!! So i am going to start doing 3D projects now. I may be new, but the only way i am gonna learn is to make it! I read about matrix's (or what ever the plural is) from TDK_Mans post, its about tutorials on his website, quite usefull! http://www.computechtenerife.com/DB/tutorials.htm

http://www.Bevansfunbox.com
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TDK
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 01:19
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Louiz:

Quote: "Anyway, matrixes are not good for levels (a matrix
with 50x50 tiles slows downs the program much more
than an object with the same triangles count).."


I know there are faster methods to do terrains than using matrices, so you are correct in what you say about the speed.

I've seen this said a thousand times before on forums so I can't argue about it - it's 100% true.

However, what I've never seen is any form of proof to back this up from a real-life program point of view. I'd like to see the actual difference that the two methods make in an example program.

For newcomers to DB, reading some posts (not particularly yours), it sounds like using a matrix in their game will make it slow down so much it will be unplayable and they should avoid matrices like the plague.

This just isn't true. They are relatively simple to create and use, (compared to learning how to use a 3D modelling package), making them ideal for beginners to use while they get to grips with programming in DB.

I'd love to do an experiment with someone from the "matrices are too slow" camp where they created a landscape demo without using a matrix and I did the same demo with a matrix and see exactly what the differences were with regards to speed and fps.

They would both have to be written in DBC though - adding to the challenge as it's slower than DB Pro.

I'm quite happy to know before I start that the demo that I write will be slower than the non-matrix version - I'm just curious to know how much I can close the gap between the two.

Anyone fancy the challenge?

TDK_Man

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Phaelax
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 07:41
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Quote: "However, what I've never seen is any form of proof to back this up "


Run a program with a matrix then an object and view your own frame rates

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TDK
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 08:00
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Phaelax:

Please don't quote me out of context. By leaving off the words "from a real-life program point of view" at the end, it gives my statement a different meaning. It makes it sound like I don't believe that a matrix is slower when clearly I do.

I clearly stated that using a matrix terrain was slower than a non-matrix terrain. Doing what you suggest wouldn't prove anything other than a matrix gives you slower framerates than an object - something we all know.

My point was that no-one to my knowledge has created the same program twice - once with a matrix for the terrain and the other without and that I'd be interested to see the difference.

The one with the matrix would be slower, but noticably slower or just slightly slower? Is the difference one or two frames per second, or in the teens?

When all combined with all the other aspects of a full program, is the difference with using a matrix enough to make it so sluggish as to be unplayable?

That's all I meant. Has anyone experimented at all?

TDK_Man

A New Alternative IDE For DB Classic!
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Me!
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Posted: 21st Aug 2005 13:09
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I agree with TDK, caverun was two matrix's, joined, scrolled and recreated in realtime to make an infinite cave, and it wasn`t too shabby speedwise, one of the first things I did was add some opponents and pickups and make it into a game, just remember that before pro a matrix was by far the most common way to make ground (bar .x models), jetski ran ok too and that was a realtime deformed matrix for the sea the jetski rides on, they are not that slow.

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