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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Shame on You for not giving Merranvo a job TGC!!!

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Mr Love
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Playing: MAFIA 2
Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:46
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Downloaded the V1 demo first day it came out, I have to say that the most things was as I expected. Great physics, Better collision programming, Better Sound, Many bugs fixed. But I have to say I did expect more from the AI! I think it was a misstake to write 66 AI scripts. It wourld have been better if You did work on 5 instead and really make them fantastic and bugfree. Well the AI is mutch better but far from perfect.
Here is a review about the AI:

- I shot a person from behind, He didnt move until I killed Him!
- If You are shooting a person from a distance in a sharp view He/She will only move when You stop shooting.
- If You are standing on something or maybe only shooting from upstairs the enemy dont respond fire! (In sharp angle)
- The enemys is still running into walls!

To tell the truth it is only one person that can handle the AI here and that person is Merranvo. So I say shame on You for not giving Merranvo a job at TGC! Superenemy 2.1.2 rocks. But I am happy anyway because You did fix the worst import bugs. (collision probs.)
By the way You didnt fix the shaking gun as promised...

Mr Love

Dont trust anyone...
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Evil Inside
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:49
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Someone lock this thread.

† Evil Inside † Upcoming projects: Heresy & The Ghastly Panic
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Origin
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:50
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I agree!
I don't know Merranvo, but I have seen his scripts!
THEY ARE AWESOME!!

You Rock Merranvo!

"if you=n00b then askForHelp()=ok
else askForHelp()!=ok"
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Mr Love
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 17:51
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Thats not nice!

Mr Love

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Zero #43
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:00
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no kidding evil inside............................................................................................................................................................... lock the thread

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology 3.4GHz 800MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache, 1GB DDR PC-2700 at 333MHz - 1x1024 SO-DIMM, ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON™ 9700 128MB DDR, 80GB Hard Drive
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Airslide
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:03
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Ya. And I didn't have these AI problems, so I don't know what your talking about. But even if I did have them, you don't go to a company and say shame on you because they didn't do so well on the AI of a product. I thought it was good, and if you don't like it, EDIT IT YOURSELF!!! That is why they made scripts!

World War III: Battle At The Front
Website Coming Soon!
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CBStudios
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:15
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what do you want for 50 bucks man? this aint the far cry engine were talking about
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Airslide
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 18:25
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Seems pretty good to me

World War III: Battle At The Front
Website Coming Soon!
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Swhale aka The FPS Creator
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 20:58
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can someone linky me to merranvos forums site with the scripts?

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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:03
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Lock .

BOOM! Awww shucks! There goes the world. again.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:14
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Yeah Merranvos script are really good! No Lets get serious, When I wrote "Shame on You" it was a ironic joke if You didnt understood. I wourld pay at least 100 bucks for FPSC if the AI was good and if there was no bugs. I dont know if it were LEE or anyone else who programmed the AI script but I think they did their best! Merranvo did almost perfect with His script "Superenemy 2.1.2" and it is still better then all other scripts in V1. But it is not to late for TGC to show Who really is best.. (If they are?)
And I still think, dont give a promise if You cant keep it!

Mr Love

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Evil stick
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:19
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But just remember one thing:

DEMO
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:30
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www.fpscuniverse.tk

I am really BULLSHOCK, but my profile got deleted...really, i'm telling the truth!
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Dr Who
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 21:42
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The AI seems fine to me!! Like what was stated above, If the AI isn't good enough for you.. Improve upon it by either moding your existing AI Scripts, Or... Write your own!
And from what I read above, Your post wasn't meant as a joke! Your just saying that now because other FPSC users have commented on having this thread locked because it's more of an attack towards TGC on this matter!! TGC has clearly stated that there will be more improvements in future updates. You can't expect everything under the moon to be in this V1 update!!! So I suggest that you be happy with the improvements that have been made to FPSC, And what you don't like in the scripts, Write your own or mod them!!

I also agree here!! Someone LOCK THIS THREAD!!

Best Regards,

DoctorWho...
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uman
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Posted: 11th Sep 2005 23:20
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A thread should not be locked unless its offensive to individuals. Mr Love is expressing an opinion about the product.

In general a product should be open to critisim - fair or unfair is a matter of opinion.

Most of Mr Love's comments I would say were a reasonable description of enemys behaviour using some at least Default AI scripts which is why I dont use any default ones without some modification. Still the AI is reasonable and better than you will see in most similar engines - thats not to say better should not prevail.

All such prouducts can always be better and as such some users will strive to present a strong case to developers to improve their product - thats fair - for those who are happy to plod along with an engine at any stage of development they can do so - they should not complain if others wish to see some betterment.

As to writing your own AI, some can, some cant - whichever the case theres a limit to what a user can do unless the base engine, available scriting commands and functions will support the user making improvements. In any case they will be at the end of the day restricted by what the engine will accommodate and this is true for any Scripting in relation to AI or otherwise.

Personally think the AI is one of the best features of FPSC and can be improved by the user somewhat. That said there is always room for improvement and I believe that TGC will again look at Enemy AI following V1 so some further improvement may be forthcoming.

That still does not warrant a locking of the thread - a lot of such calls have appeared lately from some members and should be resisted unless obviously offensive to individuals.


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Mr Love
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 04:22
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I dont now Why You are getting upset? The probs. whith the AI is BUGS!!! And bugs will be fixed. Just calm down and wait! And if You dont have any problems fine. (then why even bother writing here?) YES DrWho it was meant as a joke from the beginning! You really shourld start learning to read between the lines! Evil Stick said that I am using the DEMO, Thats true but what I know of they have the same AI scripts. TGC said They wanted opinions about the DEMO and I gave it to them. By the way I did forget another bug that has not been fixed. The boxes You import Yourself are still sinking halfway thru the floor. (at least some of them. not all) I was looking for a site for the V1 bugs but I didnt find one. Well I guess You can lock them, but then We lose this lovely gamephysics! We do have democratic roules here, so I am happy that TGC will keep it that way....

Mr Love

Dont trust anyone...
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RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 11:33
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He never asked for a Job!

Where can I see these scripts?

Lee did not have a great deal of time to work on the AI, he did what he could in the time he had. FPSC can always be better, it just needs more time and money...

Thanks for the info, I am always looking to add more feature and to improve FPSC so that we all benefit.

Rick

Commercial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
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tpfkat
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 11:40
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i agree about the ai not being up to scratch but to me thats part of the fun of fpsc, try to design my own ai, if all of the fpi files were great then we would have a load of games with enemys all acting the same way thus making all the games exactly the same.

mr love:ive seen some of your posts and even though to yourself your only sharing an opinion you seem to do it the simon cowell way, maybe more tact and support to the person you critisizing thus it becomes constructive critisism and wouldnt annoy people.i teach jujitsu and if i was to say " crap...shame on you, thats rubbbish lets see if someone else can do it better " then i would lose student quickly, if i wrote a game and someone said ,i didnt like this...because ( put reason here) and i think it could be improved this way ( again add your ways) maybe people wouldnt get upset.


just my opinion but im a noob ( a thicko noob at that)
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Habatar
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Location: Madrid (Spain)
Posted: 12th Sep 2005 12:46
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FPSC have a Script system. The comunity can make a script. And TGC tea, said that if you create a usefull script can include in V1 (Whit your permision)
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Mr Love
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Posted: 12th Sep 2005 17:20
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Thats exactly what I am doing thicko. So please give Me a example when I only gave critics and not telling whats wrong?

RickV answer:
I dont think He will either, He is prop. hiding under a table or something! (LOL!)
Hes scripts are free. You can download it at:
FPSC Universe...


Mr Love

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uman
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 02:37
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Mr Love,

If you have boxes that you have made yourself that are sinking into the floor :

If you have made sure that their Physics properties and static/dynamic state is set correctly as with any default box that sits correctly on the floor, then....

In your model editor open your box model and look at how it sits vertically.

You may find that if you move your model in your model editor up by an amount to compensate for its low position in FPSC and resave then reload to FPSC that may fix the problem. i.e. it may be that its central vertex (default height of box model) is too low in creation program. This may help and may not. You could also try setting a default height for the box in its script file and move it up that way but thats unlikely to work if its creation height is to low. I believe that FPSC expects a models base to be placed sitting on the centre line of the editing screen as it would be if created say in Max.

Something like that anyway.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 10:30
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Well I have already tryed this. But the problems start when I am playing. First everything looks perfect and after a while some boxes goes down, and some stay perfectly still. If I did as You said theese boxes wourld be "flying" in the start at the game...


Mr Love

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Merranvo
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Posted: 13th Sep 2005 23:30
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I can't accept a position, but I do apreciate the honor.

Rick, when it comes to AI, I have to admit I am some what of an amature, I lack serious training to get propper intelligence... I also notice that some DB'rs have this same problem. And this will continue until I start on AI programed with "moves".

My AI scripts are designed as a generic Enemy, someone with a slight level of Inteligence...

The problem with my older scripts was simple... I tried to make him TOO good...

Just a LOT of code, 2.0 is semi-stable, and 2.1 had gone to hell or something... But 2.1.2 (Because I downgraded, I put it as a sect of 2.1) basically ripped that stuff out, and made a good AI that would not be unpredictable. What I also HOPED that some people would do, is see the general order of which it is arranged so they could edit it to work with anything...

I really can't accept a job, nor can I even do large scale scripting... personally, I don't know HOW to script, I just get ideas and then push them. Super AI was an organized idea, I saw parts and then hooked them together. I couldn't just redesign the script because I don't know how. A major flaw unto me, but it get's me by.

Besides, I have homework, an Internet Connection that keeps disconnecting, and other stuff I need to do. If I ever get involed in serious programming, I need REAL training... no programming class offers it, and most books make their way around it.

Merranvo, taking over the net, one forum at a time.

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"
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tpfkat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 00:32
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mr love : it seems to be the way your citisizing them.
i was only trying to help not get in to a full blown argument.
i just noticed that when you post people get upset, oh well i wont get involved any further.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 06:08
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Well! You are a real sicko thicko I didnt "citisizing" anyone.

Merranvo:
Sorry Merranvo, I forgot that GOD forbid You to work for Money. Did You now why I really did this? Because nowone seems to thank You for Your good scripts and fine models. Never!
How did You learn to script AI and most important, what books did You read to learn this? Please Merranvo give us the secret password to heaven...

Mr Love

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Van B
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 11:46
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Mr Love,
That's what you have to do - you should have your physics objects sitting a little above the ground, so when your physics start they drop down and stack up where needed. Things sink when they can't get out of the scene, like if you make a box inside a wall the box inside would slowly sink below the ground.


Van-B

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tpfkat
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 12:51
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you didnt critisize anyone???????????????????
different planet i think.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 14th Sep 2005 12:58
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Yeah! Maybe You are right. But this isnt my biggest problem right now, it is the hole in My Segment under the door(!) I wourld like to ask someone at TGC if there is something I can do about it?
(At last I finished My first segment I was very happy but not for long)...


Mr Love

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Merranvo
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Posted: 15th Sep 2005 00:32
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Mr. Love, that is the statment I am trying to get out... I don't KNOW how to do things, sometimes it comes to my head but I don't know how that happened...

I really only have a bit of programming under my belt, but I have a better grasp of it then most of the class. My problem ATM is that I don't know how to expand to other areas, and that has put me at a nice little wall to sit at for eternity.

Merranvo, taking over the net, one forum at a time.

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"
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Mr Love
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Posted: 16th Sep 2005 02:53
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What kind of things? I am suprised because You seems smart and helps others with problems. Common You are thinking to mutch Merranvo, Just make a game! Do Your best and dont care if the game sucks. A professional gamedeveloper told Me that You have to do a few games until You can make something good..
I made a three room demo today and it went great! This is My fourth test "demo" and I used only My Own segments, I am proud of it!
By the way what did You mean with "I dont know how to expand to other areas" What kind of areas? My new area is polygon-reducing entities. I reduced a barrel from 144 polys to 54 polys! And I promise You it looks even better than the original. 90 polys less!!
This will speed up the game to double speed if I do this to all objects I am using.. I know that the FPS is locked at 32fps but at least it will be 32fps all the time! By the way I hate that "c" button, when I press it I am in crouch position fast as hell, and when I release it I am standing on a mikrosecond! I thought this bug shourld be fixed in V1... By the way AI 2.1.2 has a weakness and it is when You use waypoints. Why not try to fix it and make a superenemy 2.1.3??? And You can make the AI even better?
I dont recommend Noldors tunnel it has def. to many polys and it did slow down My game to about 3fps, He shourld make a lowpoly version. Well bye for now, I have some bugs to report..

Mr Love

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Merranvo
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Posted: 17th Sep 2005 03:52
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Superenemy has optional waypoints, although most people don't edit my EASY TO EDIT scripts...

But as for "other areas" I mean I have trouble expaning... I have a nice little realm here, PE (really not AI, programmed enemys really), water, cars, guns, blah blah... but I would like a REAL AI, something that may return unpredictable results. Hides, opens doors, abush, Team Communiqe!!! That is a dead wall to me. Dead indeed.

I have made a few games, most of them got thrown out because I had made it soo random that I was confuesed in the end...

Merranvo, taking over the net, one forum at a time.

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"
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Mr Love
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Posted: 17th Sep 2005 05:21
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Yeah I know the felling! Everybody want to see a enemy that dont behave as expected. But they can open doors today, but thats not a very big thing. The answer to Your SuperAI (2.1.2) have to be DONT USE WAYPOINTS! Well it can look like they are coop. if You use EXAMPEL WWII german voices that talk, makes it look like they are a team. I am also waiting for the real Super AI that is perfect, the most important in a SuperAI is that the enemys will be more afraid to lose their life. They must hide more, and when someone are shooting them in the back they shourld at least turn around!
It wourld be cool with an AI that has both attack and escape, I mean the enemy can do both. I am also talking about things like jumping up on a table and start shooting, or maybe the enemy are throwing a granade under a fire were both has handguns! Unexpected things there is the key to a real Superenemy! But I think it is not easy to make one of theese. Are You going to try? (LOL!)


Mr Love

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