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3 Dimensional Chat / 3D Modelling Programs... Better or Worse?

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Crystal Darkness
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Posted: 21st Sep 2005 19:45
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I became interested in 3D modelling a good while ago, and found myself moving away from it do to its apparent complexity. Recently, I have decided to take up the art again in an attempt to learn. I have been suggested to many different modelling programs. Now, I ask all ofyou great DB lovers and programmers out there: Which one is the best?
Now, I understand that all modelling programs are not created equal. I am sure that there are pros and cons in each. What I am looking for primarily is which program will do me best as a 3D newb. I have a basic understanding of faces, vectors and such (basic 3D design theory), but am not skilled in model creation.
In addition, I do not believe that I will need a lot of power (as I am a beginner) as to make wonderful renderings. I understand that such things as those do come in time.
I have been suggested a few including:
Milkshape3D,
gameSpace,
-and-
Swift3D.
As a side note, I do understand that becoming even a moderate at modelling will indeed take time. I am willing to spend that time.
So, what do you think I should begin with (and why if you don't mind posting)?

Thank you all for taking the time to read this.

Regards,
Crystal Darkness

PS Sorryabout the long post =)
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JimB
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Posted: 21st Sep 2005 20:18 Edited at: 21st Sep 2005 20:23
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I can recomend Silo it is a no nonsense modeling program,although it has no animation capabilities its still worth the $109 check it out.

http://www.nevercenter.com/

Another nice little package is Fragmotion which in my opinion is way better than MS3D and cheaper($20).

http://www.fragmosoft.com/

Btw gameSpace is very good dont let its gui put you off,get the learning version and try it out.
http://www.caligari.com/gamespace/
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IceCube
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Posted: 21st Sep 2005 21:21
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I recomend Milkshape 3D because I've started with it, and it was easy to learn. And you can make good looking modells in Milkshape.

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JeroenNL
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Posted: 21st Sep 2005 23:15
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Excuse the self-promoting, but DeleD (www.delgine.com) is well suited for beginner modelers. It has quite a few lowpoly functions with which you can create static objects and worlds through an easy-to-understand userinterface. No animation though, I would recommend Milkshape for that.

Use the free 3D modeller DeleD to get skilled in 3d editing! Visit http://www.delgine.com for more info.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 21st Sep 2005 23:34
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Milkshape3d.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 00:44 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2005 00:45
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yawn...another whats the best modeller, which one of these is the best...ye know what 'best' is an opinion, soooo, I think Cinema 4D is the best program, outta them lot, I've tried gamespace but some say Milkshape models in ways I like, so that would be my best...We can only recommend, like with food, ooooh whats better Steak or Pork?

soo...
dude judge for yeself, demos (for gamespace get gamespace light to see what it would be like as there isn't a GS demo to my knowledge)

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 01:21
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These questions get kinda annoying cause they asked often. There is a sticky at the top of the forum with a list of modellers to chose from and some info. The only person that can tell whats the best is you. Theres truth what these people have told you but you might not think the same once you try some out so try some.

Cant wait to see what you make,
BenDstraw

"Save the whales harpon a fat chick"
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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 18:53
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Wings3d + Blender and they are FREE!!!

New game about to be unleashed steal un theif
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Crystal Darkness
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 19:31
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Hey everyone, thanks!
I was aware if the sticky, but my post was a little different, and you may not have read my whole post (but I do not blame you... it was a little too long). Again, though, thanks for the posting!

Regards,
Crystal Darkness
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tpfkat
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 20:04 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2005 20:05
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download demos and try them.....its not which is best its actually which one can you use, they all really do the same thing but if you spend $29 on milkshape then you get what you pay for, max can cost about $600 so it has a lot more, like cinema 4d and lightwave and maya. what are you prepared to spend and how much time can you put in learning them.
the price reflects on the quality of what you get and can do.i use milkshape as its easy to use and ive seen some of the other users posting of what they can do and its very impressive.
ive also started playing with cinema 4d and its quite easy to get to grips with ( thanks teh buddha) but costs a helluva lot more.

as said download the demos and make up your own mind.
truespace lite is free but ive never used it.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 20:27
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Quote: "max can cost about $600"


I wish...more like around £2500

C4D has 3 versions- £500, £1300, £2200
Maya has 2 versions- £1500,£5000
Houdini(I only know 1 version)-£8000

not a nice cup of tea really, keep it cheap


My recommendations to a low budgeter

Blender + Yafray renderer = One powerful pro quality package...for free

TrueSpace 6
GameSpace(cheaper version of trueSpace)
GameSpace lite (not trueSpace lite ) is free

Amapi-Came free with a recent apple mac magazine, if u don't have a mac, hard luck, you'll have to pay money
Hexagon
Shade
Carrara
ZBrush
Silo
Anim8or-Free
Wings3D-Free

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2005 21:56 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2005 21:59
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If you're just doing game models, stick to Milkshape 3d. You may need a couple more apps (Ultimate Unwrap 3d, Character FX...) to make decent art, but it's alltogether cheaper than something like Calagari Gamespace.

Seriously, unless you're willing to splash out the cash on Lightwave (everyone forgets Lightwave), Maya, 3d Studio Max, Softimage XSI or to a lesser extent (it's cheaper), Cinema 4d, then you're best off with Milkshape in conjunction with a couple other apps.
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BenDstraw
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 00:55
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@Seppuku: The student version of Max is about $600 isnt it.

"Save the whales harpon a fat chick"
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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 00:55
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Quote: "Now, I ask all ofyou great DB lovers and programmers out there: Which one is the best?"


As Teh Buddhist said, there is no "best" program. All I (or anyone) can offer is a personal favorite. For me, it's definitely Milkshape; I still say it was the best $20 I ever spent.
But some very good modellers don't like Milkshape and prefer other programs like Blender, Anim8or, and the like.
Modelling apps are like spaghetti: the only way to find the good stuff is to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks.

|G|A|M|E|S|
My Anti-Drug
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 01:40
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Quote: " @Seppuku: The student version of Max is about $600 isnt it."


Think so, I've been looking at student versions of apps, and they vary, the 3DSmax student versions have limited time (well the ones I've seen) C4D Commercial restrictions but with an upgrade you can use the work commercially

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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Jonny Ree
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 13:13
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I have a suggestion for you, its not as much about which software you use, its more about what you know of the form your are making. Basicly what you should try to learn is drawing. Which will teach you to have an eye for how things actually look and how they are built. If you know that.. the software you use is more for workflow


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tpfkat
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 14:09 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2005 14:11
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kinda makes you wonder though why milkshape is $29 and the others range into about $1000.
i know the extra control and commands are great and the higher res of the finished product, but like i said ive seen some brilliant milkshape models which would pass easily in games whether they were high end or low end.clearly its about the time you put into your model and not nescaserilly the art package used.
i know a lot of them are based on the fact that movie effects are created in them but maybe they should do a cheaper product ( like caligari has done),just my opinion.

maybe an idea on the forum could be to have an area like the snippets
area, where people can do lessons on different model building with the different apps, i think this would be good because db and game making is probebly 75% graphics.
if theres a website with good tuts on then point me to it.

this area would also probably stop the questions " which model app is best or should i use" they could just download a demo and follow the instructions ( help files included with apps arent always that helpful).
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 18:25
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Thicko - the extra money is for the quanitity you can produce.And Milkshape is JUST low polygon modelling (and crude UV/animation tools), things like 3d Studio Max have renderers, advanced anmimation, more advanced modelling...
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tpfkat
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 22:08
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quantity???? wouldnt that depend on how much the maker made.
i meant my above post from a gamemaker using darkbasic pro point of veiw, high polygon count can = slowdown.im not going to have the same argument about whats best, im saying my opinion is that milkshape and some of the lowend apps are more than addequate to produce very proffesional looking models.
i have not spoken about animation becuase i have yet to do that for myself.
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Peter H
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 23:22 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2005 23:30
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Milkshape3D

Can i make myself clearer?

Quote: "Another nice little package is Fragmotion which in my opinion is way better than MS3D and cheaper($20)."

I don't think $5 is a considerable difference when you are buying something you will spend hours with...

Quote: "(and crude UV/animation tools),"

you don't use milkshape for either of those...unless you are crazy...
you can use UVMapper for UV stuff...it works fine and it's free...
for animation, i haven't looked but i'm sure there is a decent animation package out there for free to...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2005 23:52
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Thicko - there are a lot of features in higher end modelling apps that allow for a much quicker workflow. An easy example is Boolean tools.

Peter_, I was simply eliminating any possible comments of "But it's not JUST a modeller - it can UV map and animate too!".
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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 00:17
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cant be bothered arguing,ive given my opinion and now its time to move on.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 01:04
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Milkshape is very good for its money, and low budgeters, not a CG package, directed at games and many people get good out of it, if you don't like it, then its not good for you, move on to an app you do like, no point arguing over it, and well you have stopped arguing, so I'll shut it

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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JimB
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 01:09 Edited at: 24th Sep 2005 01:10
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Quote: "I don't think $5 is a considerable difference when you are buying something you will spend hours with... "


Peter
Fragmotion being $5 cheaper than MS3D is not the main consideration the simple fact is that Fragmotion is better than MS3D,for instance to save out an animated .x file using Fragmotion is a straight forward operation unlike MS3D.
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 01:40
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JimB, saving an animated .X file is simple in Milkshape 3d. Unless you mean clicking "OK" is not straight forward?
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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 10:48
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here we go
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 12:40
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Oh god, go away.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 15:21
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dudes, like leave it out man, you're fighting over computer programs!!!!!!!! Lets all settle by saying Houdini is the best at exporting in file formats and very powerful, but only for the rich okay

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 17:07
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okely dokely
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 22:11
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I was never arguing with Thicko - I was saying that Ms3d IS a straigtforward export to .X.
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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 22:17
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i have a question for you snipa ( but only without arguments or name calling)
you mentioned torque on another forum, is that the torque package for building in c++.
if yes then i would like info on it,but please dont tell me how easy it is, just the basic lowdown.
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Raven
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 22:33
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Quote: "Lets all settle by saying Houdini is the best at exporting in file formats and very powerful, but only for the rich okay "


Well if your not going to take the arguments seriously... :p

Quote: "I was saying that Ms3d IS a straigtforward export to .X. "


Using that DirectX Exporter, they only export mesh that work half the time. Using JT's you can export them to work fine all the time but takes quite a bit of trial and error to get the correct settings.

Neither are truely compliant with DirectX9 Extended Loader, which iirc is what DBP uses.

The whole post is kinda moot. You'd think given the number of people who use Milkshape3D someone would've created a DBO plug-in.. hell it would help TGC if they created a plug-in for atleast ONE modelling package.

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tpfkat
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 22:37
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never used it to animate yet but are you saying it wont save animations to .x
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Snipa Masta
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Posted: 24th Sep 2005 23:53
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It will. I'm not sure on compatability with 9 (it's a Direct X 8 exporter), but it exports to .X with animations.

Thicko : Uh, what forum was this? Leadwerks? Meh, anyway, yes I was reffering to the C++ Torque Game Engine on www.garagegames.com, the one they used for Tribes 2. I have never used it to develop games (as said before, I am an artist), but I can tell you it has support for vehicles, particles, large open terrain areas, and if you pay a little extra you can even have shader support like bump maps. It also comes with network code (the same as used for Tribes 2).
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tpfkat
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Posted: 25th Sep 2005 00:10
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so is it anygood or not as good as dbpro ( apart from its c++)
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Sep 2005 00:59
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Hey thicko, Torque is better than DBP because it is much faster and more powerful, but lacks the simplicity of DBP, the programmer of Rush uses Torque as well as DBP, he loves torque so much more, but says its easy for him to learn because he has knowlege of C++ but would normally find it hard

http://seppukuarts.afraid.org
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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Sep 2005 01:05 Edited at: 25th Sep 2005 01:09
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Quote: "the simple fact is that Fragmotion is better than MS3D"

ok, then no need to compare prices...just say how good it is

hehe, just so ya'll know i don't consider MilkShape the only program that somebody on a low-budget should get...

as has been said before there really is no one program that works for everybody...

try out all the demos and find one that works for you (and in the process you get practice modeling!)

oh and btw i use the JT exporter in MilkShape to export .x animated objects..and it works fine for me...here are my settings... (may not work for you! )


--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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