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FPSC Classic Product Chat / To All the Newbies

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Message
Kenjar
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 17th Jun 2005
Location: TGC
Posted: 16th Nov 2005 15:28 Edited at: 16th Nov 2005 15:40
About the manual. It's okay, but not perfect. I can see it confusing many younger people. I know when I was a teen the way I learned about things was to ask questions. this is clearly a product taht appeals to the younger generation. So rather the berrating people for asking questions, go write a better manual. The format alone is less than perfect, having it print out two per A4 page. If you're going to produce a manual it should be taylored to the users who are going to be printing it out, which means A4. The format it's setup at is fine for a printer who are going to produce the manual in a5 and in bulk, but as it is, with the additional margin and white space it's pretty much a waste of paper.

As for all this "search the forums" before you post non-sense. Searching, and learning how people word certain things, is a skill that is learned though experiance. If you are older then 21 then the chances are you have a good grounding in computers, and gamemaking techniqes as well as 3D art and design (yes this is a generalisation I know. I've met 21+ year olds who don't know as much as some 12 year olds). But for anyone below 21, well experiance levels are going to vary wildly. Perhaps this is the first time they have ever tried to make a game. Concepts and even jargon such as AI, dynamic lighting, shadow mapping/ light mapping, shaders, vertex's have to be learned. I don't know about the rest of you, but as a kid, and frankly as an adult I rarely read a manual from front to back. I have a particular goal in mind and focus on that. Such as, "today I want to draw a level" so I need to learn about seqments, prefabs, what they are, and how they interact. Then I want to work out how to add a player, so I need to learn about player markers. But wait, I want the character to start off with a gun, so now I need to learn about scripting, and how to access the menus that allow this. Then I want to learn about lightmapping. My point is that while the manual does explain all these things, many of us, myself espcially would rather dive into the software and start trying to do things. Most things I can work out on my own, but sometimes I need to ask a question, but I don't always know the correct wording, you only know that, once you've learned about whatever you are trying to do. It's called active learning, that is learning though activity rather then studying. Because again, lets face it, we're all here to make a game, it's s hobby for most of us, and an excuse to have a bit of fun without all the study that you're probibily trying to get away from.


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
transient
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 16th Nov 2005 15:38
There's an alternative manual out there that's modified in a one page format.

If you do a forum search you should find it.

I thought you were getting a refund anyway?

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
Kenjar
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 17th Jun 2005
Location: TGC
Posted: 16th Nov 2005 15:48 Edited at: 16th Nov 2005 15:51
I'm trying to get a refund, but that doesn't mean anything does it?

I have to admit, looking for an alternative manual isn't something I considered.

I was basically trying to defend all new users. There is a disturbing trend growing on this forum where people flame because a questions been asked before. That's life, you get new people buying the product, of cause you are going to get the same old questions over and over. If it's such a growing problem why don't you ask the TGC for beginner, intermediate and advanced theory discussion boards for each project, all the advanced users don't have to read all the newbie stuff then.

I also hate all this anti-noob justice leauge stuff that is appearing here and there. We should just be friendly, we all have opinions and all have a good chance of being totally wrong, just as we all where new, very confused users once upon a time, so give newbies a decicent go. I can understand if the same person keeps flooding the board with the same question, but while the same question might be, being asked, it's rarely the same people asking it. And that user might not know what to search for, or even realise that you can search it, after all it's right at the bottom, I missed it when I first joined. It almost looks like another advert to the casual glance. How many of us can really put their hand up and say "I always see everything on the screen!" I know after a few hours in front of the screen it's quiet easy to miss things.


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
Harry Harrison
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 25th Oct 2005
Location: NJ
Posted: 18th Nov 2005 20:41
Quote: " Cwan sum 1 tll me whr teh bthrm is?
"


Oh No! Its "teh" return of the infamous Jeff K.



@cellbloc.. that is awesome! good for her. Sweeney is a legend!
SarusX
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Jul 2005
Location: Behind u- thats where a rangers gonna be
Posted: 18th Nov 2005 21:42 Edited at: 18th Nov 2005 21:50
i think we need to have a n00b SpanishInquisition- N00bs, BE AFRAID! your day of desturction draws nigh.... (by noob, i mean the lazy morons WHO DONT READ THE MANUAL before posting... we are justified in our wrath in this dark age). the forums are going downhill, something needs to be done! FIGHT N00BINESS!!! depserate times call for desperate measures- if force is not used, these boards will perish! there can be no mercy!

I think I should start an anti-n00b society... FAASN- Forum Association Against Shunting and Noobiness

EDIT: Im just kidding, so dont shoot me.

For Sale- Very Useful for TGC Forums!!!
Flame-Proof Jacket- $19.95 Flambait Fire Extinguisher- $34.99 Last-Resort Multi-Baralled Rocket Launcher- $199.95
Get them now!!!
Vlad
19
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Joined: 5th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 18th Nov 2005 22:43
I think we should learn to distinguish noobs from lazy morrons.

New people, young people, people with questions, etc are NOT lazy morrons. Lazy morrons can be found in all of the above, but that does not mean that all of the above are lazy morrons.

We are or were noobs sometime in our life... I wonder if we all are or were lazy morrons.

Think about it and quit the noob attack, please.

V
SarusX
19
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Joined: 21st Jul 2005
Location: Behind u- thats where a rangers gonna be
Posted: 18th Nov 2005 23:00
thats not what a meant. a person new to a subject is not a n00b, at least by my standards. they are just beginners. a person who is new and refuses to rise from ignorance as a result of their laziness is a n00b. thats what i want to stop- the overload of chaos that v1 has brought on these boards. if this n00biness is allowed to continue, these forums will die out.

For Sale- Very Useful for TGC Forums!!!
Flame-Proof Jacket- $19.95 Flambait Fire Extinguisher- $34.99 Last-Resort Multi-Baralled Rocket Launcher- $199.95
Get them now!!!
uman
Retired Moderator
20
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 19th Nov 2005 03:14 Edited at: 19th Nov 2005 03:15
The whole question of new users at an open forum in the sense of being open to anyone who becomes a member - both people who have experience of game making and those that dont is not even up for debate - users here have no influence on the issue at all.

FPSC is indeed intended to be a product primarily for the mass of average people out there who have little or no game making experience. That will ensure that the many new users at this forum may be an annoyance to those not capable of accomodating their inexperience - something which will take much time for users new to game making to overcome - some never will.

Those that are new need fear not - they will be the majority - in fact its actually more their forum than a forum for experienced game makers. They should pay no attention to those that wish to see this forum become exclusively the domain of a minority of FPSC users which due to the kind of user the product will attract will never happen - unless it changes in some major way which would be likely to attract a more advanced type of game maker.

Experienced game makers are and always will be largely outnumbered by novice game makers at least for some forseeable time to come.

The issue of immature human behaviour at this forum is another issue and matter which is not wanted at any forum. Perhaps I should use that red button more often - which by the way I am loath to click there upon as it looks like it might bite me back - if you understand me. I keep looking but I fear it - lest I not stop clicking.

At the end of the day the product itself dictates the kind of user it attracts and therein lies the Yin and Yan.

The product and its forum gets by and large what it deserves thus whether the forum and product lives or dies will be at the sole discretion of the product itself and TGC. The product rules and what it is now or will become is in the hands of TGC.

Live or die forum members are largely powerless to influence its future. One things for sure without users - the product and this forum wont last very long so the more the merrier I say.

Long live FPSC and the forum.

=ChrisB=
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 19th Nov 2005 04:07
Quote: "Oh No! Its "teh" return of the infamous Jeff K."


Oh sh*t!

Quote: "we are justified in our wrath in this dark age"


*Now in extremely Heavy Duke voice (going back to my former self)* Di you sons of noobies!

Quote: " Im just kidding, so dont shoot me."


*Gets out the old gear* I know I didnt get rid of the shrink ray!

Quote: "We are or were noobs sometime in our life... I wonder if we all are or were lazy morrons."


Words of wisdom, oh no! JK, I appreciate it.

[quote]

Your signature has been erased by a mod
CBStudios
User Banned
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 01:02
One thing to say here

The forum search function stinks, I mean you can search for the topic but in most cases the word your looking for is in the post it self. The forum search needs to be upgraded,
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 02:59
Upgrade - now theres a word that can cause an earthquake.

Chronosv2
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 1st Nov 2005
Location: KY, USA
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 03:46 Edited at: 20th Nov 2005 03:47
Quote: " One thing to say here

The forum search function stinks, I mean you can search for the topic but in most cases the word your looking for is in the post it self. The forum search needs to be upgraded,"

This isn't entirely true. There is a search box right next to the default forum search that allows you to use Google to search the content of posts. I've used it before and found it helpful.

This search box is labeled "Google Forum Search".

Proud owner of FPSC v1
P4 2.0GHz, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9200/128MB VRAM
CBStudios
User Banned
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 04:11
right but it searches every forum, I dont wanna know nuttin about dark basic when I own fpsc
Chronosv2
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 1st Nov 2005
Location: KY, USA
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 05:09
Why not add FPSC to your search terms? Put a + before it and it makes it a required term.

Proud owner of FPSC v1
P4 2.0GHz, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9200/128MB VRAM
Sillybear
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Nov 2005
Location: Billings Montana USA
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 07:46
we were all noobs at first not nice to put them down they want to learn and it the job of others to help them like others helped you

Chronosv2
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 1st Nov 2005
Location: KY, USA
Posted: 20th Nov 2005 08:47
Exactly what I'm attempting to do. I just suggest the manual and search before I speak out, especially if I'm fairly certain it's there. If they then say they couldn't find it I then shell out the info. Or sometimes I will give the info along with my suggestion to check the manual...either way, I mean nothing unkind by my suggestion.

Proud owner of FPSC v1
P4 2.0GHz, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9200/128MB VRAM
Sillybear
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 9th Nov 2005
Location: Billings Montana USA
Posted: 21st Nov 2005 20:41
The Search Option can sometimes be a joke sometimes Iv used it with out help
I will amit Im learning too
I paid out for almost every bit of software thegamemaker has
just to learn everything I will get the books on DBP too when I can afford it

Doctor Evil
19
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Joined: 29th Sep 2005
Location: California, USA.
Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 18:12
*bump*

I say exactly what's on my mind, like "Imagine your grandpa in a speedo" or "I eat Jell-O while waxing the table" and my personal favorite, "I drink bathtub water"
=ChrisB=
19
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 20:25
Bump de thump!

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Doctor Evil
19
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Joined: 29th Sep 2005
Location: California, USA.
Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 22:09
Sticky NOW!

I say exactly what's on my mind, like "Imagine your grandpa in a speedo" or "I eat Jell-O while waxing the table" and my personal favorite, "I drink bathtub water"
=ChrisB=
19
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 12th Dec 2005 20:48
BUMP! and they are off!

Are you about to rock?

Then [b]I SALUTE YOU!!!
=ChrisB=
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 13th Dec 2005 06:05
BUMP!!!

Are you about to rock?

Then [b]I SALUTE YOU!!!
=ChrisB=
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 18th Dec 2005 05:44
BUMP!! Gay caps.

Are you about to rock?

Then [b]I SALUTE YOU!!!
Origin
19
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Joined: 11th Sep 2005
Location:
Posted: 18th Dec 2005 15:48
I HATE N00BS!!


ChrisB: Please guide me through the Pit of n00bs!

I don't wanna fight no union!

FREE SPEECH FOR ALL!! but, not mod's... hahahaha!!!
=ChrisB=
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 18th Dec 2005 19:45
Ok, just dont post ANYTHING without RTFM first, and you'll be safe.

Are you about to rock?

Then [b]I SALUTE YOU!!!
=ChrisB=
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 19th Dec 2005 13:58
BUMP!!!! NO, i DONT WANNA!

Are you about to rock?

Then [b]I SALUTE YOU!!!

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