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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Littered Forums, Bad Postings and more...

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RastaMan
19
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Joined: 28th Aug 2005
Location: East Coast, USA
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 05:10
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There is no easy way to approach this so, in so many words I will come right out with it. (crouching from the mods)...

I bought the original DarkBasic, back in the day, not really done a whole lot with it due to RealLife™, and work. I made a few things but it fell by the wayside.

The forums then were a bit 'harsh' even with 'seasoned' developers on the scene. Since then I have been away quite some time and returned during the late EA of FPSC.

I read the the forums daily only to find, some few new additions worth reading, and then see all these other postings that:

A: Rip apart someones work for no reason.
B: Posts on a topic that have NOTHING to do with the topic.
C: A gang-bang against a new user looking for help, even if they have not read the 'Manual'.
D: And just plain rude posts against other users that have no place or business being posted.

Now I fully understand the mods can not moderate EVERY post made available. It would be a full time job.

Why not show consideration toward other members and their works? Most have 'PAID' for FPSC and looking for direction. Others have things to offer, and excellent suggestions. This is a community of 'Game Developers' or 'Would be Game Developers' that have found FPSC and enjoy using it.

Why shun away users with sarcasm and sarcastic comments? Any member to the FPSC forums who's developing is an asset to the community in one way or another. Even if its only to showcase their creation for 'constructive' criticism.

Too many have taken either a totally personal standpoint to badger someones work or idea. This seems to happen a lot more than actually providing help. If you can't help, answer a question, or provide a reasonable post, why post?

A Co-Worker asked me a question about FPSC, that visits the forum looking for the latest tips. I didn't have an answer and told him to ask about it on the forums. His response was, 'Have you seen what happens to posts on the forums? You either get flogged or non-sense posts that have nothing to do with the question!'

I will tell you that I am truly guilty of being one of the ones who gets sucked up here in a debate that turns sour, drops to name-calling, and finding weakness in a users ability, skills or personality. No matter if it's scripting, modeling, design, storyline or what ever the case. It seems that the FPSC Forums have become more of a battlefield of debate rather than actual direction, help, suggestions, and useful comments.

I guess to wrap up this long post, why post if you have no real answer or anything actually useful to contribute. These forums would run more effectively. Some say, 'Search' but with all of the debates, new comers, even seasoned users have to navigate a bunch of trash to find anything useful that qualifies as a 'useful' post.

My 2 cents. (and yes, I am wearing my triple layered flame jacket!) Anyone taking the above post as a negitive insult is truly guilty of what I have posted above.

Think before you post.. Be informative instead of scarcastic. I am glad to see Richard locking posts and the forums being moderated. I am sure some will see it as an insult, but then again, where did the strength of the community go? To a battlefield of debate and 'told-off' users?

RM
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RastaMan
19
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Joined: 28th Aug 2005
Location: East Coast, USA
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 05:20
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As a recap, I was still thinking about the subject, your going to find someone who has read the above, and probably do just the opposite. Why post and feed the fire?

That post will simply get pushed down and be another lost thread unless its posted to. Let those kind of threads sink. Posting to them just keeps them on top and fuels the person and the fire.
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SarusX
19
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Joined: 21st Jul 2005
Location: Behind u- thats where a rangers gonna be
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 05:43
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well said.

here's the thing- if u have fpsc, read the manual. then post a question, and say 'ive searched the manual but i cant find..." yadda yadda yadda. if you dont have fpsc, before u post, just say "im thinking about getting fpsc and..." yadda yadda yadda. people takes these forums too seriously... this is just talk. on that other thread i declared myself an anti-n00b, and i am. but a n00b isnt a person who doesnt know, its a person who doesnt know AND is too lazy to look and just takes up forum space with a question.

peace, love, all that crap. be nice, but also be smart.

thats my cent. (only one because i didnt write as much as rasta).

the chick say "make love, not war... and all that crap."

Visit us at http://www.freewebs.com/pyramidproductions!

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gbuilder
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 13:02 Edited at: 7th Oct 2005 13:27
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Unfortunately, Real Life on these Forums 'can' be quite dangerous. I get the feeling that many of the people here (not all), are very familiar with Grand Theft Auto and it's violent culture. But then what can be expected of Forums that are built around the idea of 'First Person SHOOTING'. The whole concept is violent and so will attract like minds. Two cents..

gbuilder.

XP2000, 512mb Ram, 64mb GForce4 MX440 Graphics card, WindowsXP Professional.
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Vlad
19
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Joined: 5th Oct 2005
Location:
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 13:15
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I build, participate and moderate many forums. The FPSC forum follows the unfortunate trend of many others. As I see it, it's a matter of size, the bigger the forum, the bigger the "beast" to tame.

In these forums, that is especially bad. Most forums I participate nowadays, I have a post/day count of 3 to 4. I'm new to FPSC and I haven't posted my questions here because I'm not up to get my skull bashed just because I want to learn. So I spend more time trying things when I could just ask and get help. I've read the two manuals (the PDF is different from the hard-copy version) and I think that most of the doubts appear from there: people read the hard-copy and most of it simply isn't there. I'm overwhelmed with questions at this point and I don't feel confortable to post it here.

Reading something like "lol. sorry but u dun know lol!!!!1!" really spoils the fun and frustrates those who want to do better.

Helping, get helped and create a sense of community would be the better thing in FPSC forum, but most people are more concerned about writting some sort of 1337 talk bash regarding other people's ideas, doubts or ignorance.
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tpfkat
19
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Joined: 1st Sep 2005
Location: lancashire/uk
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 13:24
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well,im a noob, ive read the manuals and have asked questions,i have had help, ive only had a run in with one person who has a bad attitude to everyone anyway so i didnt have a problem.
i think some people get flamed coz they make out that they are " somthing above" and when they show the work it has to be very good else it gets critisism.i also think some flaming is not actual flaming but maybe just people having a joke and another taking it the wrong way.
i love gta and so does my wife but it doesnt effect our real life attitude.
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Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 13:47
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Gah, FPSC stay away!

This part of the forums is kinda less moderated, mainly because moderation is not appreciated here right now. Everytime a moderator takes action here there's a complaint, then we have to deal with that too, and before you know it a moderator spends all their moderating time dealing with irrelevant nonsense.

As a beta tester, long term DBPro addict and moderator here; at first I was keen to answer queries, test ideas for people, stuff like that. But then it got to the point where my word wasn't good enough for some - especially where compatibility was concearned. So I stopped hanging around in here because frankly my efforts weren't appreciated in the long run and I have better things to do than battle newbies about the price of cheese.

I think that once FPSC settles down and the users start using the forum sensibly then more moderators will spend time here and it'll be a nicer forum for you all. The best bet for now is to try not to entertain the stupidity, if someone posts crud then ignore it, if someone is putting in work to achieve stuff with FPSC then support them.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
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transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:10
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I think once people start cranking out their projects a lot of the chest-beating will stop.

This seems to be the case with other forums anyway.
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Jiffy
20
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Joined: 5th Mar 2004
Location: Hiding in the bushes in your backyard
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:39
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The thing that fires me up is this -

Yes, people may have read the manual, and yes, there answer may not be there. It doesn't mean that the search capability, however unintelligent, isn't there.

People really should use the search funtion, using small keywords (to avoid getting nothing from results). It's not that hard, and it resolves having a billion threads about people wanting to know how to add an entity.

Either way, I agree with what has been said. It will calm down after a while, and some people do over-react in some cases.


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
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Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 14:57
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The hope is always that a few generous and clever users will float to the surface and take an interest in improving matters. It does'nt matter what system your using, the manual can only teach you so much - a well constructed tutorial showing how to do a specific task is often the most helpful - we just need more people who can do this to help the newcommers more than the manual can. For example, modelling - a lot of people will have bought FPSC and not even considered that the most unique and interesting FPSC project would need a modeller too, to make custom furniture etc, tutorials on how to get media from a modeller into FPSC would be a lot more help than going by the manual, it's just the way it always is. FPSC users should really spend time in the 3D chat area too, there's often cool stuff going for free, and for the learner modeller it can be a great place for tips and ideas.


Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
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transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:02
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The problem with adding entities is it's easy to stuff up even if you know what you're doing. Hence a lot of the confusion.

Plus people are using different programs, exporters etc.
There's no definitive guide yet.

I'm not having any problems now, but I was to begin with, and I'm pretty experienced with game art.

There's always going to be new people asking dumb questions.

I think a bit of tolerance is needed.
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Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 7th Oct 2005 15:55
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Very true Van, this is a key reason why many of the older users generally are quieter and you have the nasty users who make themselves far more known.

Simply because for each newbie that is nice and fair, you have another 10 who demand help from people who are just trying to help and not respecting the experience.

Trust me when they don't get the help they expect in the forums they move to TGC Support, where they get far more demanding.
The issue isn't so much the attitude they bring, but more that they're not willing to do anything for themselves.

I am willing to help people provided they don't expect me to hold thier hand and explain every single detail, or quote them the exact passage from a text file. Asside from anything else, if I did this then again it would become a full-time job just providing this support that some users seem to believe they're not just entitled to but *must* be provided.

This doesn't happen in smaller communities for the simple reason. If your a jackass then people ignore you, and there's not so many users that you can sit there and know who is like what.

I firmly believe that this is all 'behave and treat everyone else how you would like to be treated.'. This is something I practise very openly, and those people who know me on / off the forums clearly know that if they start digging at me and making comments in the forum; then that's the response they'll get, but if off the forum they're cool and everything then again I'm the same.

It's a simple case that everyone who has a problem with me on this forum and treats me like crap; is getting the exact same response back. If they decided to take the time to actually be pleasent, or atleast civil then they will get the exact same back.

Many users have no-one to blame about the responses they get except themselves. Obviously sometimes you get the guy who's "700 1337", and they're just asses because they're asses. Best to try not taking them seriously and wait for responses from people who do want to help.

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Sunflash
19
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Joined: 28th Jun 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posted: 8th Oct 2005 02:56 Edited at: 8th Oct 2005 02:57
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@Rasta Man

Quote: "Too many have taken either a totally personal standpoint to badger someones work or idea. This seems to happen a lot more than actually providing help. If you can't help, answer a question, or provide a reasonable post, why post?"


lol, are you talking about me there? J/K. I really agree with you on this point, and I think we just need to ignore them, and have a bit of tolerance for the noobs. I've seen some Newbies get torn up one side, and down the other, and I know that if I post in defence of them, it's only going to start a flame war. So my main point, we need tolerance for the newbies! If you can't handle somebody not having searched the forums, or not having read the manual, you don't have to post something like:

Quote: "ARRRRGH!!! Search the forums you bloody n00b!!!"


This won't prove anything exept that you have a temper. Instead, please consider saying something like:

Quote: "I think you can find the answer to your question on page 67 of the manual. If you havn't read it yet, you might want to, it can help you in ways you never imagined! "


Or:

Quote: "Oh, somewhere I saw a opic on that, I'll try and find it for you... ok, here's the link, www.somelink.com hope this helps! "


It really gets annoying when people flame newer members that havn't read the manual or searched the forum, just have a little tolerance, maybe they'll listen.

The rude noobs is a different story, just don't reply to them, let their topics sink to where they should be... at the bottom of the forum.

When FPSC gets good enough, lets make a Redwall game!

FPSC HEAR OUR PLEA, GIVE US MORE MODEL FORMATS AND SET US FREE!
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Merranvo
19
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Joined: 24th May 2005
Location: That ^ is a Orange
Posted: 8th Oct 2005 04:04
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A: Rip apart someones work for no reason. Are you indirectly talking to me? Because I had a reason. A few actually.

B: Posts on a topic that have NOTHING to do with the topic. Once again, irrelivant, a lot of times a topic might be dead, people tend to lighten up in dead threads. Stop acting big, have fun with the smalls.

C: A gang-bang against a new user looking for help, even if they have not read the 'Manual'. Or your interpretation of 5 posts, MANY new users get help, those who ask stupid questions dont.
Examples of a Stupid Question "How do I Build a Game?", "How Do I Select an Entity".

I tell you, 90% of all questions are answered by reading the manual, and using the program. Most users go right to the fourms and ask us. Don't ask us unless you've tried. Something most users don't bother to do.

D: And just plain rude posts against other users that have no place or business being posted. Uhuh... Well if you pay us each $10 a day, we can be goody-goody-two-shoes. Get over it, half of what you consiter "rude" is not even close to it.

This is rude (note, it has been censored)

You Mo****Fu** Bastard, shut you sh** hole...
Not, Shut UP.

Merranvo, taking over the net, one forum at a time.

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"
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transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 8th Oct 2005 04:53
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Personally I'd rather help someone who's dumb and annoying than read some arrogant bs from someone who thinks that they're John Carmack's lovechild because they owned EA.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what we think about proper netiquette anyway, because it's the mods who set the rules and discipline people who cross the line.

Just my opinion.

Please note this wasn't directed at Merranvo who I think has helped people more than most.
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Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
19
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 8th Oct 2005 16:44 Edited at: 8th Oct 2005 16:45
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@All,

Greetings. Well said points each and every one. Let's just agree to disagree, and fight nice.

Thanks,

Seth Black

"...I'm sorry, could you repeat your question a little louder? I'm a trifle deaf in this ear."

- Willie Wonka
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Merranvo
19
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Joined: 24th May 2005
Location: That ^ is a Orange
Posted: 9th Oct 2005 00:10
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key word... fight.

Merranvo, taking over the net, one forum at a time.

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"
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Mr Love
19
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Joined: 9th Jun 2005
Playing: MAFIA 2
Posted: 11th Oct 2005 01:19
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It wourld be a better idea to talk about FPSC instead of peoples opinions about things. And whats wrong with PEACE SarusX? Do You like to see when people are dying!? Grrrrrrrr!!!


Mr Love

Dont trust anyone...
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