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FPSC Classic Product Chat / All things in moderation

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FernandoK
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 16:39
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FPSC is an interesting and promising bit of software that could, with some foresight, become a hit.
As it stands, it has it's users, but, I suspect, there are not that many of us. Unless it does become a hit, it in danger
of becoming what years ago someone called zombieware, the 3d Gamemaker is a good example of that. You can buy it, but good luck to you if you do.

FPSC is far more capable and promising but without the proper marketing it will head that way regardless.
Now the developers can spend a great deal of money advertising it. That's one way to go, or they can hope that word
of mouth will make it a success. And it here that there is a problem: This board is the only reliable advertiser
for FPSC. Unfortunately it's turning into a very unfriendly place. Personal squabbles and complaints against noobs are
taking over.

Now, I know that it is time consuming to actually moderate a forum, but unless someone actually moderates actively, this resource is going to turn sour. People who are first time visitors might think that we are a bunch of idiots, and I wouldn't blame them.

I think the developers of the software need to give some serious thought to this. If they don't, all their efforts and hopes
are going to go down the drain. Newcomers need to feel welcome. It is in our interest to make them feel so.
And the developers desperately need them to be.
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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 16:47 Edited at: 26th Oct 2005 16:47
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With the FPSC source available it can hardly become abandonware, and I can see TGC actively supporting this software for a long time; it's a big seller.

Point out any dodgy posts and the moderators can take any action necessary.


Http://synergyide.thegamecreators.com
http://www.digitalzenith.net
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Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 17:01
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The solution, is to move the FPSC forunm to a new home where everything is FPSC.

I have it because I was a beta tester - so I'd be happy to moderate there, but the thing is that right now moderators tend to stay away from here, because the users here don't know what a moderator is or why you should'nt treat them like crap. There seems to be this attitude that mods in some way bring TGC's rep down in this forum - but really - if it would be better if we stuck to the rules and moderated this forum properly then there would be about half the posts, half the users, and a strange smell of fish.

Has anyone actually read the AUP in this part of the forum?

The way I see it, if someone buys FPSC then comes here and starts acting like an idiot, then there will be problems - but it seems this part of the forum is somewhat of a newbie zone and every moderator action results in some knee-jerk reaction by a newbie with no idea.

All I see here are a few talented people in a sea of stupidity. I mean WIP posts with no screenies - where's the justification in that!, if you can't show a screenie then when in the blue hell would anyone want to read about your project - it's a WYSIWYG editor FFS!.

Yeah, I reckon this forum needs to mature or be seperated from Apollo.

P.S. Nice to see another mod badge John, congrats - drop into the lounge sometime and see all the smack we talk .
Van-B

Put those fiery biscuits away!
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Benjamin 2005
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 17:26
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Quote: "Unfortunately it's turning into a very unfriendly place. Personal squabbles and complaints against noobs are
taking over."


I agree, if I had to go by the forum, I wouldn't get FPSC. A number of people treat newcomers very unfriendly and unhelpfull. The impression I got from the forums is this: FPSC is full of bugs, hard to use and many people do have questions which no one seems to be willing to answer. If answered the answer isn't really helpfull a lot of times.

But since I read enough about the FPSC, I decided to give the demo a try and found out that it's a great product!!! I'm glad I didn't go by the forum, but tried the demo.

If I do use FPSC to create a FPS? What's a FPS supposed to be anyway???
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Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 17:34
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What strikes me is that ok - people have questions.

So whose job is it to answer them?

Mods?
Users?
Admin?
Smilies?
The dude that empties the bins?

Who knows, perhaps TGC need to employ someone solely for working on customer support for FPSC - but really this is the sort of complaint that would get nowhere on the forums - email TGC with your suggestions and they'll consider them, but I think for improvements to come here we need changes, it's a different community than the rest of apollo and it needs it's own guidelines.


Van-B

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Krazykris
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:19
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Quote: "the 3d Gamemaker is a good example of that. You can buy it, but good luck to you if you do."


I was actually thinking of buying 3d gamemaker, then realised it's over £300 for the unlimited license version.

Is 3d gamemaker really bad or something, or do they just not update it?

I really hope that they keep working on updates for FPSC, I purchased it and i'm loving it so far.

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:28
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@Krazykris:

Dude, resize your sig please!

-This...is my boomstick!
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madhouse
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:29 Edited at: 26th Oct 2005 20:30
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Quote: "Unfortunately it's turning into a very unfriendly place. Personal squabbles and complaints against noobs are
taking over."


I agree. I belong to the Newtek User Forum and love it. Always helpful, never bashing. Now this may get me some heat, but the average age of this forum participants may have something to do with it. The Newtek Forum mostly consists of persons having purchased a high end software (which usually means older adult.) Everyone is usually egar to help ans share ideas.

One thing that may help here is a section devoted to NOOBS (as it were.) Then the experience users that venture in are probably more willing to help than bash.

relax - in a 100 years who's gonna care
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BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 23:08
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ya, kinda like the newcomers corner for dbpro...

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madhouse
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 17:18 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 17:19
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exactly. right now it is sort of like going down the advanced ski slope when you're only ready for the bunny hill...you just get in the experienced peoples way and they get bugged.

relax - in a 100 years who's gonna care
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Krazykris
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 12:32
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I'm new around here and new to FPSC, been on the forum for about 2 weeks now..Everyone has been really friendly towards me, and have answered my posts.

Your signature has been erased by a mod
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Jiffy
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 14:55 Edited at: 28th Oct 2005 14:55
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I think that there is a lot more problems on here than any of the other boards. As has been said, is mainly due to the price of the product - a whole lot of kids with high hopes come on here, and simply don't read the other billion threads that ask the same question. I'm not really aiming at the kids, but it seems that a large majority of people have high hopes of FPSC, see that something doesn't work, and posts of it, regardless of whether the thread below it asks the same question or not. I will admit, I may come across as harsh to a few n00bs, but I do my best to be helpful. When I disagree with someone, I always say at the end something like "Just trying to be helpful" or "I' m only giving advice for next time". The one thing that I don't take kindly to is, as said, the threads with no screenies. I admit, I made one (from quite a few months ago), but I still already had a demo out (on FPSCreators, which of course no longer exists). I don't mind so much if they give something REALLY soon after posting, but it's not all that great.

On to another point. People are being much worse than they had been when EA was out, for obvious reasons. I agree 100% with VanB. People should start to be more mature, they should create a Newbies forum (specifically for FPSC - for a while you can only post in that section, then later you can go to the other FPSC boards), or the FPSC should seperate from Apollo.

Signing Off .


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 18:16
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fps creators...lol

who rememders that?

hahah i wonder what happened to that guy...

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Merranvo
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Posted: 28th Oct 2005 23:44
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Quote: " because the users here don't know what a moderator is or why you should'nt treat them like crap."


Why you dirty **** mod!!! Mod, I hate mod, if you were a mod why don't you make kool thing? j/k

"ye oft de adopte early shalt move mountains, and be gods among men"

He who knows everything knows nothing at all.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 1st Nov 2005 12:45
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Do You smell fish Van B? I dont...


Trust everyone...
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Jiffy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2005 13:28 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2005 13:30
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Merranvo - Mod? I hate mod. Mod is stupid.


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
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Vlad
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2005 20:34
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I'm hereby bumping this thread.

These forums are getting flooded by rude answers, lack of help, wannabe game makers that are on top of a big pedestal and whose worth is yet to be proved.

Like I've stated on the previous thread, this is a bit too much for me. Lurking is the option, but trying to help or get help on this forum is over. Participating here is just pain for my stomach.

Others, well intentioned and helpful do their best to make this a better place, they give a hand to the absolute new guys, make resources go back and forth.

What is the point of participating in a constructive way if people are calling others stupid, showing off zero quality, begging... These forums, products and nice and friendly users deserve much much better.

I'm in no position to demand anything, but if I was I would demand some more moderation here.

Take care, have fun and be nice to each other, please!

V
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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2005 20:40
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That's too bad, Vlad. I understand where you are coming from, but I hope you make it back here someday when things become a bit more productive.

-Keith
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Merranvo
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2005 22:39
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Yeah... and that thread shows how much the DBP Users cared!

Although he was a little outragous.

Go Boznia!!!

Your mod has been erased by a signature.
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Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 09:27
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When we loose this imature attitude towards mods here, maybe more will come along - although John seems to do a lot of moderating here.

Frankly everytime I do something here I get an email complaining about it - I really have better things to do with my time than squabble with people too rightious to read an AUP.


Van-B

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Vlad
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 10:15
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Quote: "When we loose this imature attitude towards mods here, maybe more will come along - although John seems to do a lot of moderating here.

Frankly everytime I do something here I get an email complaining about it - I really have better things to do with my time than squabble with people too rightious to read an AUP.


Van-B"


Then you must understand that, has a paying customer of TGC products, I think you should not be a moderator. Sorry for my blunt words, I fully understand what you mean and probably feel, but that attitude is as bad as the ones showed by the users of this forum that continuously trash and wreck the threads here.

I'm taking my speech elsewhere.

V
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 10:25
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Vlad,

Care to explain why I should'nt be a moderator?

I only ever get emailed from people who are complaining about me locking their post, like when it's against the AUP I moderate - WTF else am I expected to do?. Please explain.


Van-B

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Vlad
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 13:23 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2005 13:27
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@Conjured

I understand what you said, I am a wannabe gamemaker myself, but I'm not putting myself on the top of a pedestal, neglecting other peoples opinions and start throwing rocks. I feel that my message might be misread, and I'm sorry and accept that is probably lack of communication skills.

If I was rude, I'm sorry, but I don't find that truth is rudeness. It's basically a matter of opinion.

You and me usually get along but don't exactly meet opinions, I don't think that's bad, we only have diferent ways of looking at things and as far as I know, that's what makes the world go round and proceed.

@Van B

Quote: "Care to explain why I should'nt be a moderator?"


Sure, because of this:

Quote: "I really have better things to do with my time than squabble with people too rightious to read an AUP."


And to be honest, what are you supposed to do? Lock threads where people are throwing arguments and getting personal, where people attack other people, that is all I ask.

And quoting myself:

Quote: "Sorry for my blunt words, I fully understand what you mean and probably feel, but that attitude is as bad as the ones showed by the users of this forum that continuously trash and wreck the threads here."


This is to say I don't think you are a bad person, a bad moderator, or anything bad, this is not personal. I just think that if you (or any other moderator) don't feel or know what you are supposed to do and the forums pile up trash, then someone has to.

I'm just tired of the bashing. I expect a good and productive environment... Is that asking too much from forum of a commercial product?

V

P.S.: I've noticed that thread that made me bump this one was deleted. Thank you to the one that did it. As far as I'm concerned this is settled. Let's make games.
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Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 14:05
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Quote: "And to be honest, what are you supposed to do? Lock threads where people are throwing arguments and getting personal, where people attack other people, that is all I ask."


The moderators here are here to deal with threads just like you mention, where people are offensive, post illegal or immoral material - but also posts that lead to flame wars. For example a newbie post is often flame-fodder here if the question has been asked before, we need to lock or delete these posts as well otherwise we'd have flame wars. Note that this forum has no real flame wars usually, just heated debates but no personal attacks or anything like that. It used to be quite different on the DB forums, and we don't want to go back to that.

The thing is, the moderators are here to manage the bad posts, not teach people FPSC - it's not like TGC give us a copy of FPSC in case people ask questions about it - that might be an idea though. See there's no expert here to talk to, there's no definitive handful of users who can deal with everything. The DBPro community got to the stage it's at over time - like you can post a question in DBPro discussion these days and get a response within the hour - not from a TGC employee or a mod, but by a normal user, that's the sort of community FPSC users could really benefit from - leads to tutorials and articles in the newsletter etc (like what about a FPSC tutorial every month?) - I think maybe quite a lot could be done to help cut out the newbie queries, like a definitive tutorial set for absolute beginners would be a good help.

It just seems to me that Moderators get blamed for every crime in this forum - but we're only here to tidy up - you lot need to become FPSC guru's and help each other out, it's the only way unless TGC decide to invest in some support staff for FPSC.

But yeah, lets get back to making games and hope that things improve soon, on all sides of the debate.


Van-B

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Chronosv2
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 14:35
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Once my copy of FPSC arrives, I'd be more than happy to attempt making a tutorial for absolute beginners--I was one just Saturday. But after looking at the Demo's work, and just plain messing around with the system, I've got a pretty good feel for how the basics work.

Really, FPSC is a snap to work with, and the best way to learn it is to try (that's what I did--I only looked at the PDF manual to figure out some of the keyboard shortcuts.), but I'll agree a be-all-end-all basics tutorial would definitely help. So, again, once my copy arrives I'll see what I can do--I'm sure the actual v1 product can do a lot more than the demo!

Hmmm...maybe I'll target a tutorial to the beginners using the demo version too.
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Merranvo
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 22:04
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The Moderators...
Some Moderators could create a closed thread and fix Tutorials to that thread.

One of the biggest problems is that the n00bs will pick this problem up, and refuse to read the manual. If you read the manual then your not really a FPSC n00b, your just a forum n00b. But then you have the second problem. With all the help threads hidding behind the question threads, people ask questions that have already been answered. But the real problem is that no one wants to do a little work before hand.

I really don't see much spite to the mods, just ill tamed threads that need taming. The Problem is that there is little moderation so when moderation comes around, some people fight it.

Your mod has been erased by a signature.
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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 22:09
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Quote: "Some Moderators could create a closed thread and fix Tutorials to that thread."


Start one off and we can see how it goes, if it gets out of hand then it can always be pruned. It certainly would be a good idea to have a knowledge base thread stickied that contained lots of links to interesting topics and available resources. Take a look at the Nerds thread in Bug Reports, it seems to be well organised.


Http://synergyide.thegamecreators.com
http://www.digitalzenith.net
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Chronosv2
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2005 22:23
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Rest assured, I read manuals. That's why I know how to do anything at all with FPSC. Yes, you can get started without it, but in order to do anything truly great with it you have to have read the manual. You can't write a good tutorial without knowing the manual, either, because in that situation you're more likely to give incorrect information. I may be new to FPSC (and this forum), but I believe I'm a pretty fast learner (or so people tell me), so my offer to help out still stands if anyone wants it.

I had just thought of leaving out the specifics on how to do things, to make sure that users of the tutorial read the manual, but then it wouldn't really be a tutorial. OK...I'll highly reccomend that anyone using my tutorials have read the manual beforehand. The manual is the definitive answer to anything printed in it. That which is not printed in the manual is something we, the members of the forum, can help with. Now we just need the search button to take up half the screen and we're set. (I'm kidding, of course, but every forum, not just this one, is plagued with people who refuse to use the search function, or just don't know how to utilise its power.
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