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Program Announcements / Possible retro competition entry

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Glennyboy
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 17:18
I'm considering making Elite. I hope. It's early days yet, and it won't be called Elite, of course. And I'll probably have to change the Cobra MkIII model and the Coriolis station, but that's not a big deal.




The working title for now is Galaxy at War, which may or may not change. I've got the very basics of an Elite-style game in place, but there's still plenty to be done.

Implemented:
-Hyperspacing and fuel usage (including an improvement to the Elite system allowing multiple planets per system)
-Docking (albiet minus collision detection, but that's not a worry)
-Basic flying controls
-A planets database to handle different-looking planets and characteristics
-A trade goods database

Still to go:
-Other ships, including AI (argh!)
-Actual trading of the goods
-Tweaks to the handling of the ship
-A "jobs board" similar to Frontier (I hope... depends how much time I have)
-Ship equipment, including weaponry

Whaddya reckon? Will it be done before April 4th? I'm not going to get all fancy like Frontier: I don't see a need for an uber-realistic flight model and accurately modeled star systems. Elite was great without them, and Frontier was possibly soulless and pedantic with them. And yet Elite could do with some improvements. My hope is that the player will discover interesting things on their travels, and unearth a few goodies they weren't expecting. That's the spirit of the original: discovery. And that's where I hope I'm gonna go with Galaxies at War.

Enough long-winded prattle from me. Encourage me!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Feb 2003 18:04
i'll be keeping a special eye on this game (^_^)
that is my favourite game of all time!

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 01:03
Okay, so I fixed one of the screenshots above, because it was looking screwy.

Anyway, I implemented a few more gubbins today.


As you can see, trading has now been implemented. The interface needs work, such as making a little bigger (it's a bugger to click on right now) and I'm not too sure how sturdy the pricing algorithm is. Plus, I'm still hoping to add in modifiers for temporary events, like natural disasters and stuff, to affect prices.



In preparation for adding in the weaponry, and eventually combat, I've got the HUD going, displaying the pitch and roll, as well as the speed, a gunsight (pointless 'til I get an actual gun going), and little missile status lights (again... pointless for now).

I've been squashing a few bigs, but there's still a few more that are bothering me. Hopefully I'll find them in due course.

That's enough for now. Hope you guys think it's looking promising. I sure do.

Glennyboy
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 01:06
Oh, yeah, and planets now have a "texture" entry in the database, and the nearby star's lighting colour has also been implemented, as visible on the last screenshot above.

Ummm... the "edit post" function doesn't seem to work, which is why this is in another post.

Speedhorn
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Posted: 28th Feb 2003 02:21
I was actually thinking about this game earlier, wondering if anyone was making it in the retro comp. Spooky.

Ralph, Jesus didn't have wheels.
Glennyboy
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 02:52
Well, todays update is here:

Not much new, because I was wrestling with a few compy problems. However, I implemented one essential feature, which is a compass (can be toggled on and off) to help you fly towards the space station. The compass is the red and blue monstrosity in the screenshot.

The second thing, also togglable, is a "docking corridor", a virtual HUD tunnel to aid with docking. It's not as essential, but I thought it'd be nice. Both additions are pretty ugly at the minute, but I'll smarten them up when I get time. The compass was displaying a very wierd problem, and it took me three hours to get it working right. Turn out I just needed to reverse the order of rotation. Not sure why. Still, with it in place, it's now possible to fly between systems without any trouble, and with the trading functioning more or less, this is starting to come together. Over the next few days I want to add some life to the universe and populate it with ships, asteroids and hopefully some rudimentary AI.



Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 15:08
you love the word 'implemented' dont you?

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 17:14
I'm looking forward to try this

Pneumatic, former elite and scourge of Lave

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God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
PiratSS
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 21:28
Looks fine..

It's probably my monitor, but it's too dark.

Otherwise, it's a really cool entry


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Matto
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2003 01:34
good stuff...

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Project: Card Game with No Name
Glennyboy
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2003 14:41
xxxpetratxxx: Heh, guess I do.

PiratSS: You're probably right, it seems dark on other machines I've tried too. My own monitor's a lovely TFT thing, which seems to show up dark areas quite well. I'll look into it.

Thanks everyone else for your kind words.

I didn't get any work done on Saturday, bt hopefully today I'll get to adding some more stuff, or at the very least building a new ship and station. Pity, I like the coriolis and cobra shapes. Ah well.

Glennyboy
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2003 10:57
Well, I did build a new ship and station, but they aren't textured yet, so I didn't put them in. I've tried to retain a sort of low-poly, elitey look, but expand on it a little. The new player ship is a Pioneer class vessel, similar-looking to the old Cobra MkIII, but without any messy copyright issues

I've added in joystick control, but it's horrible to control the ship this way. Rotation for left and right on the stick just doesn't work. I may have left and right for the yaw, and leave rotation as a keyboard control and a twist control if there is one on the detected joystick.

I've also made the database of purchaseable upgrades. This is a realistic list based on time constraints. If I have some spare time, I'll add to it. If not, this will probably be your lot:

-Pulse Blaster
-Mining Blaster: yup, for breaking up asteroids
-Extended Cargo Bay: helps you carry more cargo, of course
-Hydrogen Scoop: For harvesting fuel from a star and, believe it or not, you can scoop up jettisoned cargo. Bet you didn't see that one coming.
-Auxiliary Reactor: The old Energy Unit.
-Lifeboat: Escape pod.
-Afterburner: Think Privateer 2 style... this isn't guaranteed to be in the final game.
-Distress Beacon: Call for help. This also may not make the final cut.
-Standard Homing Missile: "Standard" because I may add others in.

Any thoughts? I've purposely left out the energy bomb, because I hate smart bombs. And I'd like to add in at least one more blaster type. In fact, I very probably will.

Also, since no one ever really used the escape pod on the old Elite, I'm considering going the steel battalion route: if you don't bail out and die, your saved game is wiped. Harsh, I know. I could make it so you auto-eject when your ship is about to be destroyed, basically guaranteeing survival as long as you have a lifeboat. Thoughts? On anything in this post, in fact.

Trev C
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2003 22:41
Just a thought, but with the darkness problem why not implement a brightness control in the setup. This way a user can control the brightness themselves.

This will save you hours of trouble as eveyones monitor settings are different, making very difficult to get the balance right

And good luck with the game, it's looking good and I'd love to see it finished.

Trev C
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 17:22
(once again we see the word 'implement' come into play... )
Lol, its a good idea though

xxxpetratxxx
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Glennyboy
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 10:55
It's a good word, dammit!

Dead on, Trev C, hopefully I'll do just that. Thanks for the encouragement.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 12:36
should have that docking thing as part of a cheaper computer (no fun if the worry about crashing on the spacedock is taken away... which is what made the original so damn'd addictive imho)

certainly seems you've got this really going on, and if you complete it intime thats gonna be some bitchin' competition.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 14:37


xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
Glennyboy
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 16:24
Well, the docking thing's purely guidance. It doesn't do anything. It's quite literally a mesh rendered in wireframe which is toggled from HIDE to SHOW with the backspace key. I thought I'd drop it in because it's so quick to do. And actual docking computer... well, again, I have a plan on how to do it, but I'm not planning on including it in the game, partly due to time constraints, and partly because docking is a little easier than any other Elite version. Why? Because you can actually see into the tunnel, rather than a black square, so when you get close it's still easy enough to keep your rotation steady. Also, it's a bigger tunnel, so there's more margin for error. But also more space for much bigger ships

I'm working like a dog to try and get this thing ready for the deadline. Currently, it's looking 50-50. My main worry now is the AI. Everything else I have a clear plan for, but the AI I'm pretty hazy on. I need to try out some ideas, really. But if I can't get it to work in time, I'm basically screwed. I'll keep on with the game, though. For the competition, my mandate is Elite, but with improvements made possible with today's technology. After the competition, I'm gonna have some real fun and see just how far I can take the engine and the basic idea. For example, earning a wage by doing freelance police work, flying different ships, actual exploring (ie adding in content to make systems really different from each other: Elite had 2050 systems spread over 8 galaxies... I never saw the need to stray much beyond a twenty light year radius from Lave... they wasted time and memory with that many systems), and just basically giving the player a sense of adventure. There will be stuff to find, you just have to look in the right places. I want to reward the player for having curiosity. But all that's in the future. For now, it's Elite, but Elite on steroids, and possibly wearing a flaming cloak.

Bloody hell, I ramble on, don't I?

The rest of this post is the same as the update I posted at RGT today, so if you read that, you can skip this:

I've got a couple more things working, though: asteroids, which are randomly created according to the "asteroid factor" of a star system, and a radar. Now... the radar... hmmm.... what can I say about that? It's a little... different. But I assure you it makes more sense when you're playing than when you look at this screenshot. Basically, the bright crosses are objects, and they're arranged onto a sphere to show their relative position to your ship. I figured that it'd make a nice change from the usual type of radar. It can be toggled on and off if space is thick with asteroids or ships.

The blue cursor represents the space station, however far away from it you are.

Green is asteroids and other non-hostiles/zero hostile potential items, like cargo canisters.

Yellow will be other ships.

Red will be other hostile ships.

Missiles... may be orange. Not sure yet.



Glennyboy
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 12:58
Thanks... I just hope I get it done in time.



Not much to show off in this screenshot, but it's the product of a lot of hard work. You can now shoot stuff. Shots correctly inherit the motion of the ship that shoots them, so shots move faster at high speeds. There's also a rudimentary explosion, which you can just see on the station in the screenshot.

Also, the nice starry backdrop. I'm not entirely happy with it, it's only a 256x256 texture. Does DarkBASIC have any problems with 512x512 textures? Because that would make the backdrop look much better.

Also, asteroids now appear correctly relative to the player, and at a rate that is specific to the system you're in. Next up, I'm hoping to add asteroid mining, followed by the ability to scoop up asteroid chunks. After that, it'll be other ships with "automatic" AI (guys on trade runs, docking/taking off, hyperspacing, etc.) followed by combat AI, and the ability for ships to switch between the two (ie, attack someone on a trading run, and they'll switch to combat mode).

Still loads to do.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 11th Mar 2003 23:47
you know what Glenny... i don't care if you finish this intime or not - because this looks like its gonna be an outstanding copy

it sounds like you're putting in alot of hardwork on this - and think you should take your time.
if you want it done for the competition, just have some basic things done - like trading, 5-6 systems, docking, lasers, Ai, and System Jumping (+HyperSpace of course)

yeah darkbasic isn't to friendly with textures too large - i'd keep it as a 256x256 as it looks nice as is mate
when you move do you scroll the backdrop (or rather when the camera moves) because that is quite a nice effect to give the impression of a skydome when there isn't one

don't worry about new models or graphics oki, just post up what you need and i'll make it asap for you (^_^) just consentrate on the programming.

if you need help with any effect you wanna accoplish usually i can explain a good few way howto achieve it
keep going man i really wanna see this in action

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 12:01
Thanks, Raven, that's some kickass encouragement. My housemate's a bit of a modelling god, so I'm okay for that, but your offer is appreciated.

I was considering scrolling the backdrop, but for now I'll stick to what I've got.

Thing is, I'm having a bit of a worry as of yesterday. Now that stuff is blow-uppable, collision checking is in. And it's made for a really big speed hit. And I'm only using bounding boxes at the minute (except for the station). When the player has fired off about 15 shots (which I reckon is the maximum before they "expire" and are deleted from the game world) and there are about 10-15 randomly generated asteroids in the area, my Athlon XP 1600+ starts to slow down. I don't have a big problem with limiting objects in the local area to around ten or twenty, but if you're in a big piratey skirmish, five of those ships could have shots in the air, as well as yourself.

I'm considering a switch to actual laser beams, meaning you basically only have a single shot in the air at any given time, but I'm not convinced I can come up with a way to accurately scale the lasers so that they "stop" when they impact with something.

I would really, really like to get this game into DarkBASIC Pro, just for the extra speed it would give me. I tried again last night to make it work in the demo, but it just won't behave. The camera goes crazy and some keys don't respond (possibly an issue with decimal numbers being rounded to zero, rather than actual keypress problems). I don't know what to do about it, I'd love to use DBPro, but it just won't happen.

Your idea of cutting the game down for the competition is pretty much what I was thinking. It's a fine line between a work in progress and a finished game, though, and I need to keep a close eye on that. I'm really tempted to disregard the competition altogether, but I've never got round to entering one of these before, and I'd like to put myself to the test. I guess it'll hinge on what I can get done.

Anyway, any advice or suggestions you or anyone else has would be totally welcome right about now.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 15:27
you want to know a fantastic little tick i found for collision detection?

check how far apart objects are ... if they're say >50 then do if collision() blah blah
it works a treat cause it doesn't actually check all the collision, just those which are close.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 18:28
Again, you read my mind. I was considoring this, but I'm umming and ahhing about it. I guess I should just try it. Mainly I'm hesitating because the shots do the OBJECT COLLISION(shotobject,0) thing, where it doesn't check for collision with any particular object. I saves me making a loop for every object to check against every other object, which I assumed was quicker.

With the "distance" method, I'd have to check to see if the object was close to anything, which means adding in a loop to cycle through all the other objects to check their proximity to the current object. If any of them throw up a "proximity alert", then individual collision checks are done. It doesn't sound like that 15 collision checks in total (ie current max number of shots) is quicker than 15*20(number of ships/asteroids for now) proximity checks. But, then again, it may well be. I've not got much to lose at this stage. I'd really like to avoid using laser beams, because I think they don't look as cool.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 19:04
yeah... well if you shove in the objects within an array, use the (0) as the number of objects, then each consecutive as the object numbers - then a simple function can check the collision.

for some reason whenever i think of anything my mind is going blank ... god i should probably rest up
but maybe you get the idea hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 11:27
I'm not quite with you... I have an array for the objects already, but I just have a variable for the total number. The code currently is roughly like this:

for h=1 to maxships
if object exist(h)=1
hit=object collision(h,0)

IF hit>0
[do the "hitting" code"]
endif

endif
NEXT h

Now, the difference with checking for distance would be that an extra loop is put in there where object H is checked against every other object for distance, and if any of them are close, it runs the "collision" check, and if necessary the collision code. That just seems like it'd be slower. But, I won't know 'til I try. If I can't get this sorted, the project is effectively screwed in it's current form. Bleh. This is doing my head in. I never thought collision would be the problem, what with DB having these nice built in functions. If I'd known they were this excessively slow, I'd have designed the whole project differently from the ground up.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 13:40
well the code would be something like



or something like that anyways

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 12:22
Yeah, that pretty much makes sense, cheers. Actually, to be honest, I don't quite get how you're working out the distance thing. I know of /a/ way to do it (pythagoras' theorem done in two dimensions, take the result, and use it with the third dimension, so the first two form the edge of the triangle for the second calculation...) but I don't quite get what you're doing there. Whats the << business all about?

Thanks for the help, man.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 13:58
i'm just combining the XYZ into a single value (its bitshifting)

basically your distance vector becomes a single value = which gives you an accurate determination of how far away the object is in total ... i mean you do roughly the same deal in a cross product

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 14:09
Ah, I knew I'd seen it somewhere. I think I recall bitshifting now from the tiny bit of C++ I learnt.

What's a cross product? My maths doesn't go beyond GCSE, so be gentle...

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 14:40
lol... cross product, dot product, subtraction product, etc.. are all forms of Vector maths

i'm kinda tired right now, so its probably best i don't go into them - i'll be back later and explain them a little
but its effectively standard basic math applied to XYZ(W) of Vectors for 2D, 3D & 4D Mathematics

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 18:14
I know what a vector is (a line describing a direction and distance, right?), and I understand you can use equations spewed from Pythagoras' mighty throbbing brain to calculate them... didn't really think I was missing anything relevant...

But looking at your code, I don't understand how bitshifting gets you the distance between two points... as I understood it, bitshifting is basically shifting the binary version of a number "to the left". By the looks of it, you put all the co-ords together by laying their binary equivalents in a "line" (yeah, I know this is pigeon maths-speak...). So, you have two numbers representing the distance from zero of each object... subtract them, and the positive result is... the difference between the two numbers, made themselves from Frankensteined together co-ordinates, combined in a way that, to my puny brain, doesn't give a useful number. Clearly, it does, or you wouldn't have done it. I just don't get how. Unless it's just a relative thing. So you can just "detect" if the numbers are close together, without those numbers referring explicitly to distance, which seems pretty sensible.

Bah. Get some rest, anyway, this can wait. I appreciate your patience, matey, and feel free to tell me to stop asking questions at any time.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 03:20
well the point is basically and adverage value for collecting the data ... i mean you can always export and then >> the numbers again to get the updated numbers again.

basically all it does is makes sure that the overall distance is the same at once.

if you think about it ...
if distancex = x1 + x2 / 2
and you do that for each axis, then if ONE of the values are larger than the other - then you're still calculating all three values, just to find out if one is out of the range. Well mine doesn't, it makes sure all three values are the same value - and edited at the same time, meaning that the distance is an overall value.

this means rather than 3 sums and 3 checks, there is one
just about adding speed really - hehee

but you can get each of the values back by simply doing it all backwards

x = bitvector>>16
y = bitvector>>8 - bitvector>>16
z = bitvector - bitvector>>8 - bitvector>>16

wierd i know, but it works quite nicely - and is good for physics caluclations as you can apply the same sum to all three axis in one go.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
the architect
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 02:43
Glenny Boy,
It warms the cockles of this ol boys heart to see someone recreating a classic game. Brilliant. If I met you in person Id KISS yah!

the architect
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 02:44
And it all looks very promising!!!

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 11:33
and now Glen has a very good reason to make sure he runs when he see's TA

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 19:44
I get it, Raven. Very clever. Never thought of it like that. TA: no tongues, though, okay?

Glennyboy
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 13:54
Phew, well, after a few too many days break (erk, deadline looming!) I've got back into it. The "proximity alert" routines are running, and the game is a little more sprightly when shots are fired. Still, I'm a little concerned that this is gonna require a rather hi-spec machine when it's done. I guess we'll see. I hope not.

Mining Blasters (which I just mis-typed as Minging Blasters...) now function correctly. Asteroids are blasted into a random number of chunks if a mining laser is used on them. The cargo scoop can pick them up (slight change here to Elite... the player gets with 20 units of the object to be scooped and presses C to bring it on board) and in your hold appears "Minerals". These can then be sold by docking at any space station. Hoo-rah!

Targetting now works, pretty much the same as it did in Elite, ie letting an object pass through your sights. Targetted objects are denoted by an onscreen circle. If an untargetted object wanders into your crosshairs, and you aren't looking to target it, it'll be highlighted by a crosshair. I'll probably change it to a grey circle or something that's less intrusive. I would do it for every object on the screen, rather than whatever's close to your sights, but DB has way too slow 2d for that. The game still goes to a crawl when the starmap is brought up.

There's also a basic menu screen now, which will soon allow you to set your resolution, control device, and graphics settings. The game has been designed from the ground up to be tolerant of just about any resolution given to it. I've only tested it in a handful, so someone'll probably prove me wrong on that.

Explosions have been juiced up slightly. Still fairly tame, but the smoke now looks a tad more like smoke, and makes bigger clouds to encompass the destruction of an asteroid, at least better than it used to.

Three laser types are now working: Pulse Blaster, Mining Blaster (slower rate of fire than the Pulse, but a tad more powerful, and it can make asteroids produce scoopable debris) and the Heavy Blaster (relatively rapid fire, fast moving shots, and quite powerful).

Still got to do an equipment purchase screen, then a bit of a code cleanup, and then the hard stuff: other ships.

And then, after the short bugtesting cycle in history, I'l probably submit it.

I've been giving some more thought to what I want to do after the competition. Whether I make the deadline or not, I really want to try and run with this game and put some kickass stuff into it for you guys to play. If nothing else, the feedback would be valuable to me, even if everyone hates it.

No screenshots today, but hopefully there'll be some shiny new models to show off soon.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 14:38
ohhh (^_^) can't wait

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Mar 2003 14:22
Okay, I've just finished kicking the last few bugs out of an (ugly) menu system. The player can now choose resolution (640x480, 800x600, 1024x768) although the game doesn't bother to check if any of those work. The game is also locked into 16-bit colour for now and the forseeable future. It'll need more than 32-bit colour to make it pretty, and I figure that if anyone's system can't display any of the above resolutions at 16-bit colour, they may as well be running the original Elite. Hey, at least that one's finished.

There's also a gamma control now, for the brightness. That one's for you, Trev C and PiratSS! It's a little crude, but it works fine.

Finally, you can set the density of the 3d starfield. 200 has been the default so far, and that's about right for an 800-900MHz machine running an Intel i810 chipset (although don't expect to be able to run the game on that... you'll need a fair bit more under the bonnet). More stars gives a much better impression of motion.

The game lets you save these options and autoloads them when it runs, if there's an options file present.

I couldn't be arsed to do any 'real' work, but I figured the menu had to be done sometime. Hopefully I'll be able to pretty it up before release. But for now, it looks like so much ass that you don't get a screenshot

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Mar 2003 15:43
i always liked Elite2's menu ... was simple and effective well i look forward to seeing this soon

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 17:18
Well, unless I can pull some working AI code out of my ass this weekend (and normally, that isn't the kind of thing that comes out of there) I won't be making the compo deadline. Things have been a little crazy this week. It looks like I'm moving house again, and, err... I've really been enjoying C&C: Generals...

But I still intend to carry on with the project.

But just to prove I've done some work...

All ship equipment is now purchaseable, with the exception of missiles and lasers mounted on anything but the front weapon mounting. Of course, not all ship equipment actually works, but at least ya can buy it. And sell it for half price.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 21:07
well don't worry about the competition Glenny ... if you can pull this off then i think i can see about supporting this game - especially if it can work to a Multiplayer aspect

love to see a demo of this

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 11:24
Whoa, one thing at a time, there, fella. Multiplayer would be nice, but it's some way off. For one thing, I'm not even using time-based movement, because I fear the maths.

A demo would be feasible. But not very exciting in a universe with just you and some rocks. I fear the AI also.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 02:37
aww... Glenny you fear alot of things
timebased movement is a simple aspect - i've written a few timer routines and functions for this very means so you don't have to worry about time movement it just happens every Nth/1000 of a second which means you can use that Nth/1000 as the constant Time value (^_^)

be glad to show you how i did it and why it works sometime
Ai is also a very simplistic beastie ... its more a case of making sure your computer players take actions either premade or based on current circumstances.
The best way being allowing them to enlarge thier own intelligence by giving them 'memories' as it were where they can think back that if such-n-such happend then you'll do something else, which you can pick at random or for more complexity you pick based on the most pros to cons.

as the universe doesn't need any major Ai only those you fight against then its not a problem ... and actually if it was an online version as opposed to a computer version you won't really need Ai as you'll have humans instead (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Glennyboy
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 11:49
Well, I'm not too worried about the AI, more the actual routines for facing the target (and leading it). But I've got a maths bod on the case.

As for the time-based thing, it's more the hassle that coems with it. The way my program is now, a time-based movement system would allow shots and ships to pass through objects at very low framerates.

Danmatsuma
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Location: Australia
Posted: 1st Apr 2003 20:44 Edited at: 1st Apr 2003 20:49
Glennyboy, I did a real fudgy thing with dbc to do target leading, if you're interested, it requires no maths at all (I'm shocking at maths)

Read on if you are:

It works on the principle of letting the targeter see into the future.
Basically, it involves doing some moving/rotating of objects before the sync command,

1. starting with remembering the target and targeter's position/orientation.
2. Then moving the target forward (move object) as far as you want to "lead" it.
3. Then using point object to point the targeter at the target. Remember it's new orientation.
Move the target object back to where it was @ 1
Rotate the targeter back to where it was @ 1
now
SYNC

The player didn't see any of the above happen, and it was surprisingly fast.

now you know where it's gonna be(target), if it keeps on track.
You can change how far ahead you move the target object based on the distance from the targeter.

now you get the targeter to rotate it's weapon towards the angle you remembered @ 3
*ominous sound of weapon charging*
FIRE!!!

Well, it works for non curving paths anyhow.
That's how a simpleton does target leading

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 00:31
aye and simpleton AI based on same principle:



rem Should work a treat except when facing 'exactly' 180 degree away from your target, so might want to add a pre and post range check on the move to enforce a harsh turn variable.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 08:13
Hehee I see a book in the works: "AI for Dummies"

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Glennyboy
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 12:10
Hey, yeah, those aren't bad ideas, guys! Hmm... very interesting. For some reason I never considered dummy objects for this. I reckon I could adapt the technique to allow the ai ships to move according to the specific limitations of the type of ship that they are.

Thanks fellas, I'll keep it in mind.

No more spaceships on my next game Zombies. Lots of undead shuffling idiots. I love zombies, they're funny. Maybe some kind of zombies and explosions combination.

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 12:19
your doing a recreation of the Microsoft Windows Convetion 2003?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?

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