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FPSC Classic Product Chat / CSP Engine vs FPS Creator

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Mr Love
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Playing: MAFIA 2
Posted: 18th Nov 2005 05:05
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Here is a little test where I compare CSP vs FPSC...


-Lets start whith the AI, I think FPSC win here, but its a close race! CSP has a very simple AI, but the enemys are acting more like real humans than FPSCs AI script. What I mean is that CSP combine attacs with defence in a way that a real person shourld have done in sutch situation. A minus for FPSC is that the AI is unstable, sometimes it works perfect, but to often the enemys are inactive and sometimes they dont react when shooting at them(!) So this is a draw.

-World? Building a map for export into FPSC is hard. If You dont use the segments, probs like Guys running thru the walls and other bad things will happen to Your game. The worldsize is extremly small! (only 40x40) for serious outdoor-maps I think that 250x250 wourld be enought. But rather 500x500 to be on the safe side! Or why not unlimited size? CSP is build for importing big maps, and it does it well, the size is unlimited. Here goes the gold to CSP. By the way no landscape-support in FPSC! ( )

-Rendering and picture quality? FPSC has a very nice picture quality, but it is a bit blurry from a distance. (Hey Guys You didnt forget ,1,1 in DBP did You?) but the colours and rendering are great! CSP are using Blitz rendering system that are famous for fantastic rendering, You can even mirror the floor! Blitz rendering gives a professional felling. So this match is a draw...

-Effects. FPSC has to few of them and no real explotions, CSP has some light-effects and most important fantastic underwater diving! Very realistic!!! This is also a draw, but whith some real explosions in FPSC the gold is pretty close! And why not copy CSPs fantastic underwater-felling?

-Collision Physics. CSP is a winner here by fare! I have played many CSP games, and I have never seen any dead bodys IN the walls.

-Problems. Im afraid FPSC lose this one also! Too many bugs!!!

-Media. CSP has alot of nice stuff, but compare to FPSC its not mutch! FPSCs media and Characters are very professional looking but sometimes FPSCs media give Me a plastic felling and the Character colours are to pale! The gold here goes to FPSC by far! A big minus for to many polys in FPSC Media! Exampel: some Characters have over 2500 polys and over 7000 vertices(CRAZY!)

-Commercial Games. If You are going to sell Your games this is very important: Speed, Animations, Pro Media, Pro Rendering, Load & Save, Pro AI, Stability, Good Licence Etc... This is a draw! Because FPSCs royality free License...

-Overall. FPSC is faster to build in, and have a great editor! But a big minus for the very small world 40x40 and no landscape support. CSPs huds looks unprofessional and Information and support is Crap! (And no fun forum! Just a boring one.) I am sad to say it, really sad to say it, but the overall GOLD goes to CSP(!) And this is just because all theese stupied limits FPSC has!!! No Load or Save??? Miniworld 40x40??? No landscape support???
Hello TGC wake up before it is to late!!!


Facts to this review comes from CSP homesite plus alot of Blitz3D Links that has been writing about CSP. Facts about FPSC comes from thegamecreators sites and links plus own experience...
Why not do Your own review under this one?


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Jiffy
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 06:40
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I'm not sure about TGC's views on comparison threads on FPSC, but they do not allow comparison threads to DBP and competitors, so I don't think this'll be allowed.


Click above for Project Luna demo! Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
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Sunflash
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 06:54
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Can I get a link to the CSP's main site? I want to check it out!

When FPSC gets good enough, lets make a Redwall game!

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Chronosv2
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 06:58
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Actually, worldsize is bigger than you think... Yes, HxW is 40x40 (1600 squares total), but you forgot height. The height can be up to 20 squares, making for 40x40x20 (32000 squares). Are all 32000 concievably usable? No, but the worldsize supports that much. This allows for some pretty long hallways and some pretty tall towers. Overall, I'm impressed with that aspect of FPSC. With it, you have a lot of vertical power. Horizontal power is also there, but understanding that halls can't go on forever.

Proud owner of FPSC v1
P4 2.0GHz, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9200/128MB VRAM
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Mr Love
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 08:00
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Well Jiffy, Maybe TGC are more democratic now... This is just My personal opinion. I dont care if TGC remove it, the most important is that they got the message...
Sunflash, It wourld be wrong to send You there from here! If You really are intrested, try search for it...
Chronosv2, I agree that 40x40 is enought for indoor games, but dont You think that FPSC shourld handle outdoor games too!? You can make a new halflife but not a new DF Xtreme or Ghost Recon...


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Chronosv2
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 08:09
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Therein lies the problem, though. The FPSC engine, at this stage, really has trouble even with the current limitations. It'd be cool to see the next Ghost Recon or DF Xtreme (which I can't recall ever hearing of... o_O). I created a 2-floor (4 layer since I didn't want the floors of the upper level to be the ceiling of the lower level), slapped in entities (most of which were static) and enemies, and the game ran at roughly 16 FPS, and about 1/3 of the enemy scripts did anything but stand around. Before they can make an update that gives that massive 200x200 level size, they need to take care of the current issues. And though outdoor areas would be nice, unless they come up with a brilliant Field-Of-View/Level-Of-Detail system for it, outdoor areas will be for the most part unplayable. I think truly large outdoor levels would also require a re-design of the portal system, but I don't know this for certain, and wouldn't be able to tinker with the idea anyway, considering I don't have DBPro and even if I did, I'm not all that great of a programmer.

But anyway, I understand where you're coming from--it'd be cool for FPSC to eventually support some of those things, but as it stands some things (like level size) will have to do.

Proud owner of FPSC v1
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FernandoK
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 13:52
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What's CPS?
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tpfkat
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 14:48
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whats csp....if we dont know what it is then we cant really take your information in properley.
i searched for csp and got too much crap to wade through so how about just enlightening us.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 15:21
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I'm assuming you're reffering to this one? http://www.melog.ch/dropper/ (MODS.... if the link is not allowed please do remove it, got no idea if you can post such a link or not.)

There are two major problems with this engine which will make any serious game developer drop the CSP Game Engine from their list of tools they're considering in using. If you compare 2 engines these are major factors to take into account and are often more decisives then features.

1. Support and updates. It's quite obvious that the CSP Game Engine is dead at the moment. It hasn't been updated for almost a year now. The forum activity is none and the user base seems to be very small. Support may become a major problem and no updates isn't a good sign at all
2. The license. You have to buy a license for each commercial game you're planning on creating. The license is over 26 euros per game.

In my case I'm involved in a commercial venture which will see at least 15 different releases if not more. That's going to be almost 400 euros. If I do encounter a problem along the way, the chances are that all work has been for nothing, because there maybe no support at all.

The CSP Game Engine looks great, but sounds like a potential nightmare for any serious developer.

FPSC is way to cool, you can create even more then a fps with it!
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uman
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 17:15 Edited at: 18th Nov 2005 17:17
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Commenting on the current condition of FPSC is to some extent governed by just that - its current condition - whatever users views and they vary - its what it is - suitable for some users with limited aims who want to use the software to do what its intended - click and play - simple indoor FPshooters and that with numerous bugs, instabilities and other problem difficulties to contend with. There are quite a number of issues even for this kind of gamemaking that need addressing and they may well be in any possible update to fix some of the obvious ones.

As for those users who would like something more in their game than FPSC will currently permit - well you have to decide if you will try and use FPSC for your project as it it - FPSC as with any engine can only be spoken of in the present condition. No one here yet knows what the future holds for FPSC and TGC say nothing so you have to assume that you will have to make your game with it as it stands or use something else. FPSC wont be anything else until such time as TGC make it so or other users release helpful improvements, either way its unsure how and if it will develop much further at this moment in time.

We are all aware that there are numerous game engine tools to choose from and all of them have some features and capability that another wont have. Of course FPSC being designed with a limited aim in mind for a limited target user base - it has perhaps, more restictions and limitations and less of the features required by the more adventurous user than most others.

Many users, myself included may wish FPSC to be a more all round engine, but that may not be and was never intended to be apparently the intention of TGC and there is no reason to expect that it will become anything different than it currentlly is.

In that environment users will have no option but to use it as is or not as your game development plan dictates. Waiting for any major change or addition to the engine to suit your needs could well be a long one.

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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 17:54
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FPSC is great (and that will be shown in Total War 2005, my game), and CSP looks prety sweet, too. Maybe I'll check it out sometime... Who knows.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 21:34
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Why not make FPSC to a game-engine for everybody? Both have features for Semi-Professionals and people that just want to play around. I dont buy theese crap that FPSC wourldnt handle a 250x250 area! Everybody can understand that You cant build a house that is 250x250x40 and have 87 enemys in that house! But You can have a landscape that is 250x250. FPSC courld handle a few bunkers some houses, trees, enemys, some tanks plus some small entities TODAY! It courld even do this fast, because landscapes dosnt slow down the engine so mutch. By the way TGC wourld make a lot of money by making the area mutch bigger! (like 500x500) They wourld sell copys of Treemagik 2 like butter in the sunshine...


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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 21:58 Edited at: 18th Nov 2005 22:00
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[EDIT]

Nevermind. People don't read anyways.

-This...is my boomstick!
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Chronosv2
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 22:00 Edited at: 18th Nov 2005 22:02
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How can it handle a 250x250 landscape, Mr. Love? My demo level which wasn't even full 40x40 ran at roughly 16FPS, as I said.

The dynamic entities in the level consisted of 6 or 7 beer bottles, about 10-12 enemies and a chair. At FPSC's current state 250x250 landscapes would bring it to below 1FPS without some superior occlusion culling. Granted, it's not the landscapes, but the enemies and physics objects that really slow down the enigne (at least on my machine), but 250x250 just feels way too big for the engine in its current state.

[Addition]
Cellbloc: Who was your statement directed at? I ask because you posted while I was writing my message, and don't know if that's directed at me or not.

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P4 2.0GHz, 512MB RAM, ATI Radeon 9200/128MB VRAM
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Harry Harrison
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 22:34
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I agree with Chronos.. there is no way in hell that FPSC will handle a 250x250 area even with only a few entities. One of my "moderately" detailed outdoor levels, which was about 40x40x1 was getting 4 fps when standing at the end of the map and facing the direction in view of the most polys.. granted it was 260k polys but imagine what a 250x250 area would do. You gotta fill all that space up with something.. unless your making a desert

FPSC does NOT do outdoor levels well.. the problem is that FPSC tries to render every polygon even the ones that aren't viewable. So this is one good reason why you don't get 250x250 areas with FPSC.

At this point.. FPSC is only good for indoor levels or very small outdoor levels. I hope and pray that something is done about this.

HH
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Mr Love
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 00:36
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As I said THE LANDSCAPE DOSNT SLOW DOWN FRAMERATES MUTCH!!! Harry and Chronosv2 have not heard of something called polygons. You can have many polys if You put them on the "right place". So the answer is that You are using to mutch polygons on the wrong place! Chronosv2, You said that You are using 10-12 enemys. Theese enemys have 2500 polys eatch 12x2500=30000 polygons!!! Make Your own lowpoly enemys or buy them if You want. And I am just wondering how smart You Guys are? If the area is 500x500 only the areas with polygons will count, that means that You can make a map that is 50x50 or any size You Guys want exactly as today! 30000 polys+building media+entities(!) and You ask Me why Your map is slow??? The answer is almost always P O L Y G O N S ! ! !

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Deadwords
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 00:44
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wow, CSP looks like good and crap at the same time. The rendering looks ok, but the demo crashes on my computer...piece of crap, nah, good, nah, i don't know

Skalex Production |Website Coming Soon| ChaosZone
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 01:11 Edited at: 19th Nov 2005 02:45
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Quote: "
This Product (CSP) can be used for one Game Release, including Demos, Teasers, Updates, additional Levels and Patches. "


ONE GAME!

No thanks, I'll stick with FPSC.
I can make as many games as I want with FPS Creator!

CSP is single player only!
FPSC does single and multiplayer.
No thanks, I'll stick with FPSC.
I can make multiplayer games with FPS Creator!


~ ~


My account was spoofed.
All those posts were not me.

Whatever you can imagine, you can animate. --- Walt Disney
All too easy. --- Darth Vader
Just do it! --- Nike
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 02:37 Edited at: 19th Nov 2005 02:40
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so wait...conjured...that wasnt you?

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Deadwords
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 03:06
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that explain the sudden attack on KeithC and others, that made you banned.

Skalex Production |Website Coming Soon| ChaosZone
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uman
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 04:15
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In its current condition the FPSC engine is and would be incapable of handling advanced terrrain sizes and complexity of that and the world content in general. Indeed polygons count and that is a major problem currently where FPSC does not carry out poly counts efficiently or correctly irrepsective of the world size. The way that the engine calculates visible polys needs some attention I would think before TGC would consider increasing the default world size.

For those that are wishing to work with large terrains currently remembr that a terrain is not just a terrain - you need to consider the number of ploys in your terrain making it small enough in poly number (large ploys) that will support correct collision and give a reasonable form to the terrain whilst at the same time not making each poly so big that the player and enemies would fall right through the middle between the polys. A balance is what is needed.

Put simply I use terrains composed of one mesh square(two polys) for each FPSC tile so you can work that out for a 40 x 40 terrain. In fact you might be best advised to aviod the actual outer perimiter tiles - and make a large terrain of world size of 39 x 39 tiles or there abouts and place it centre of world leaving a small distance between it and the world edge. Trying to place a terrain inside FPSC larger than the default world size of 40 x 40 tiles is a bad idea and will have unpredicatble results - its asking for trouble.

Its not difficult to work out that you have a 40 x 40 world size currently due to the fact that effectively TGC believe that the engine cannot realistically handle world sizes larger than that and they would be correct, for many reasons and numbers of polys are really only one small factor in that - (a professional engine requires massive content of all kinds handling capabilities). Originally apparently it was to have a world size of 100 x 100 tiles but that was it appears a little unrealistic in the final analysis.

True - there are users who would like to see the product encompass additional suuport in future for larger world size, default terrains and other features that would allow a more diverse content and a broader spectrum of games types to be made with FPSC possibly attracting a wider range of users, why not it is asked? Why not indeed? FPSC was never intended too - at least towards its final stages of development and there is no indication that TGC have any other intentions for its future now - rather it was intended to be as is - a click and play environment game making tool for personal entertainment and casual game making for distribution in a non commercial environment, that has not changed as far as I am aware despite what some users at least may wish. The fact that you dont need a commercial license to sell any games you make does not change what the product was designed for and what it eventually became which was one and the same thing. It was not designed to be a professional game making tool - lacking in areas that users of such a tool would reasonably require - though with enough effort you might be lucky enough to achieve a basic standard of commercialism. I would like to think it might but am not sure that it will ever be any different unless TGC have a major brainstorming session and rethink FPSC development strategy.

Perhaps they already have?

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Chronosv2
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Posted: 19th Nov 2005 21:27
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Quote: "As I said THE LANDSCAPE DOSNT SLOW DOWN FRAMERATES MUTCH!!! Harry and Chronosv2 have not heard of something called polygons. You can have many polys if You put them on the "right place". So the answer is that You are using to mutch polygons on the wrong place! Chronosv2, You said that You are using 10-12 enemys. Theese enemys have 2500 polys eatch 12x2500=30000 polygons!!! Make Your own lowpoly enemys or buy them if You want. And I am just wondering how smart You Guys are? If the area is 500x500 only the areas with polygons will count, that means that You can make a map that is 50x50 or any size You Guys want exactly as today! 30000 polys+building media+entities(!) and You ask Me why Your map is slow??? The answer is almost always P O L Y G O N S ! ! !"


Quote: "And I am just wondering how smart You Guys are?"

First off, I don't appreciate that. Want to know something? Those 10-12 enemies aren't all next to each other. At MOST there are 2 enemies in a rendered location. Or at least a location that should be rendered. And also, the way you talk about it you seem to think that the engine could contain 250x250 or 500x500 tiles at one time. The engine can't handle it. That is, unless you make sure that your terrain tiles are at most 2 polygons, which isn't all that reasonable, in my opinion. Let's do a little math, shall we?
250x250 is 62500 tiles. Not to mention any additional floors. Now let's assume you make your massive terrain, Mr. Love. If you managed to pull of ONLY 2 polygons per terrain tile, that would still leave you with 125,000 polygons. The way FPSC currently works, you'd be drawing over 125,000 polygons at one time, all the time. Sorry, that's just not going to run. Not at this stage anyway. Maybe as FPSC's rendering technology gets revised, yes, that will be fine. But until that happens, your idea is a far-off dream.

Don't insult my intelligence again. Not once did I point any insults towards you.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 19:21
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Yes thats right, regular FPSC media cant handle 250x250. Every floor tile has 12 polys that means 750000 polys(!) You are right, no engine can handle that! But if You have read this thread We are talking about LANDSCAPES! Now FPSC can handle a landscape that is from 2 polys to about 30000 polys (propably even more!). I can tell You that it is even more than what UBISOFT used in GHOST RECON for PC. 750000 polys for a flat ground is crazy when You can make a flat surfice in Your modeller, with only 2 polygons! Theese 2 polygons can be a entity floor that covers all theese 62500 tiles.(By the way I dont call 250x250=62500 for math.) FPSC can handle a area that is 1000x1000 if You just use Your brain, and reduce P O L Y G O N S! Belive Me, I have been working alot with DBP. But there is also another solution. Just make everything small (scale it down), and lower the first person camera! After this 40x40 tiles will be like 500x500 tiles! Be honest, You never thought about that did You???


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Chronosv2
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 20:12
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OK, whatever. I've given up trying to make my point. All I'll say is this: Unless these tiles are segments, any segments you draw will be drawn anyway.

Please, run 250 * 250 through Windows Calculator and take a look at the result. Area = Length x Width. Thus Length(250) multiplied by Width(250) = Area(62500).

And pardon my saying so, but in most cases "terrain" isn't just flat, unless it's been run through with an earthmover. If a tile is 6ftL x 6ftW x 6ftH, then the ground area (A = L x W) of your 250x250 map would be 2,250,000 square feet. (Just so we're clear here... (6ft x 250 = 1500ft) * (6ft x 250 = 1500ft) = 2,250,000, which sounds wrong, but try plugging that into a calculator or MS Excel--here's the cell data as well.) I don't think a 2,250,000 square foot area would be completely flat. And unless you want something looking like Broderbund's Stunts, I really don't think you'd make each side of the hill 2 polies.

Excel Data:

You can plainly see that the values it spits out for 250 x 250 is 62,500 and (6 * 250) x (6 * 250) is 2,250,000.

(I don't intend on replying to posts in this thread in the future. I've found that trying to use reason and current data is rather useless. Hopefully you have learned something from what I've said here. Thank you, goodbye.)

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Mr Love
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 20:38
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Yes, please give up because You are wrong! At least this is MY opinion. Were there is no mesh there is no calc=Remember that...
Goodbye Yourself...


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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 21:06
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You can either agree with Chronosv2 or be wrong! LoL

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Harry Harrison
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 22:14
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Quote: "And I am just wondering how smart You Guys are?"


*sigh* i'm sad to say that it is attitudes like this which degrade this otherwise good forum.

Dude.. what is up with you and your insults? You really like throwing your weight around here don't you? In another thread you insult someone because you didnt like their demo and now you question other's intelligence because they don't agree with you that FPSC should of came with a 250x250 or 500x500 map size(don't you think TGC would of done that if it was a good idea???).

All i'm saying is that no one will be willing to have an intelligent conversation with you if you continue to respond in such a degrading manner. I'm a succesful retail business owner in a tough industry and don't need anyone questioning my intelligence so posts like yours will be ingnored by me from now on. Thank you.
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 20th Nov 2005 22:24
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Mr Love, I'm not sure if you own any other game engine at all. None of the BSP engines I do own (or have owned) are good at handling outdoor scenes. That's why they needed to come up with features like lod, clipping and fog.

We can discuss this whole issue as long as we want, but TGC did not leave out terrains for no reason at all. If FPSC could handle terrains well enough, I'm pretty sure they would have released it with good terrain support. For outdoor scenes FPSC needs to be improved quite a lot and some features missing or not working at the moment need to be in it.

It's not for no reason that all of the attempts to create good outdoor stuff for FPSC has failed until now. All attempts with landscapes have failed. To prove us wrong you need to show us that you're right. You need to create an outdoor game with landscapes in FPSC to show us your correct. I'm pretty sure that you will fail to do so!

FPSC is way to cool, you can create even more then a fps with it!
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uman
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 01:47
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Of course you can have an outdoor game with terrain in FPSC. Except for using a little brain power and some hard work that in itself is not a problem at all. The last screen shot I posted of a terrain shows an outdoor MP level which works perfectly fine with a terrain at max world level size or near enough at 39 x 39 tiles square.

It has little to do with the terrain - outdoor levels of any kind are difficult to achieve in FPSC. Adding a terrain to any outdoor level can be done though its not as easy if FPSC has the feature of terrain support inbuild needless to say.

A terrain (placed as a static entity) itself will have no more influence on fps on outdoor or indoor levels than placing any other kind of world object of any kind.

Most if not all of the issues that cause difficulties that exist in creating outdoor levels in FPSC are also influencial in indoor ones and have similar end results. e.g. dont have too many enemies active at any one location. By and large I have and face the same problems in levels both indoors and out.

Not that its easy or ideal to attempt outdoor levels in FPSC and currently if you want to have them including terrain, you can - you have no option if you want them other than to go ahead and do it - or wait and see what if any improvements are made to FPSC that may help in those areas. Theres no guarantee that you will have any.

As V1 stands indoor or outdoor levels suffer from similar problems a terrain entity has little to do with that.

Mr Love,

I have not tried rescaling the world - indeed it has been thought about by myself and others I am sure - in some engines it works very effectively. I may be effective in FPSC though the program seems to be so inflexible in its tile based system that I would hesitate to attempt it myself. I could forsee many difficulties.

Still its worth you giving it a go if you think the effort is worth it - everything would have to be scaled if any test proved worthwhile including all content and things like physics and speeds of entities would all have to be adjusted accordingly. Even terrains may have to be made with differing poly sizes - giving you more polys. It wont overcome any inherant errors or issues the FPSC engine has with culling and poly counts, so overall I dont think its worth it myself.

Despite being bsp engines there are some with vastly faster speeds than FPSC due partly to better implimentation of lod and culling I guess, though at the end of the day as Benjamin A has said....

Quote: "FPSC needs to be improved quite a lot and some features missing or not working at the moment need to be in it."


Not sure why I keep writing all this stuff - think I'll give it up and wait for those improvements.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 11:11
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Well HarryBoy, Whats up with You and YOUR insults? You have insulted Me sence You came to this forum. Why? Was it beacause I didnt like a persons game (This was long before You even came here, You Big ....!) You are just talking about Yourself harry, and YES please I dont want to talk to You anymore. So DONT download any of My stuff in the future. AND dont ever write on one on My threads again! (If You do, I Lock it!) YOU are the one that insult people here for real! I have nothing against Chronosv2, We were just arguing about SOMETHING, and thats between us! Now You have shown Your right face, and thats good! Because now I know how to deal with You! Ignore You forever!!!

I have been working with the ENGINE itself! And I know how mutch it can handle. Some Guys here dont even know what they are talking about! FPSC CAN HANDLE A MUTCH BIGGER WORLD! I have tryed it Myself!!! By the way "Harry",did You now that many succesful bussines-men are PSYCOPATES...

Trust everyone...
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Vlad
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 11:50
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Quote: "You now that many succesful bussines-men are PSYCOPATES"


Actually, some are sociopats, not psychopats.

And mate, you are over-reacting to Harry's post. He is not insulting you in any way, cool off a bit, relax and have fun.

V
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Mr Love
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 12:03
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No I am not over-reacting, because in theese maybe 5-6 times I have had contact with Him He has always been rude! Now its enought!!!
I told Him that I liked His game, and that it looked great! He responded everybody exept Me. As I said, its enought!!!
I like You Vlad! But You can be a bit "IKNOWEVERYTHINGINTHEWORLD" sometimes. But You are OK!

Stop listening to rumors! Listen to the truth...
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Harry Harrison
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 15:29
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Mr. Love.. I wasn't gonna respond to this thread again because I was hoping to avoid another conflict with you, seeing that having an intelligent conversation with you is impossible. But this quote really irritates me.

Quote: "You have insulted Me sence You came to this forum. Why?"


Could you please look over these threads and point out to me where I have been insulting to you.. you could copy and paste the comments right here. I just want the oppurtunity to apologise for each and every insulting comment I have ever made. If nothing is posted then we'll know for sure that I never insulted you.

And why do you have these dillusional ideas that I come on this forum to bother you?? I'm just a happy FPSC user that is trying to be productive with my time using this software and sometimes that requires me to visit these forums for ideas and productive conversations with other users. Unfortunately, I was rather annoyed by the way you "personally" insulted someone on their "first" attempt at a demo and since moderators weren't taking any action on such comments(which I can't stress enough how degrading such comments are to these forums) I decided to try and show you how your comments were rude to that person and probably detrimental to their confidence in using FPSC. Did I insult you in anyway? no! But you continued to personally attack me and another user in anyway you could(and still continue to do so).

Now people disagree with you on your idea that a 500x500 map size should of been implemented in FPSC by TGC from the start(take a close look.. not ONE person agrees with you) and you return to your personal attacks again. So much for intelligent conversations.

haven't you been banned already?


And yes.. you did comment on my thread about my demo and "suprisingly" left a positive comment. I thank you for that and anyone else who left a positive comment as well. Did I personally direct graditude to everyone else "except" you for leaving positive comments? No. Did I express graditude to everyone who left positive comments in general... yes, many many many times.



Quote: "I have been working with the ENGINE itself! And I know how mutch it can handle. Some Guys here dont even know what they are talking about! FPSC CAN HANDLE A MUTCH BIGGER WORLD! I have tryed it Myself!!! "


interesting.. could you please enlighten everyone and explain how you were able to do this?

Quote: "AND dont ever write on one on My threads again! (If You do, I Lock it!)"


all the more reason for this post



My apologies to the rest of the community for hijacking this thread.

HH
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Vlad
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 15:51
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No worries Harry.

I believe Mr Love is working on the engine if he has DBPro and the Enhancement Pack, since the engine code is free for FPSC users. That's the only way I can recall.

I still don't understand the fuss with this posts really and even if it's not my problem that you two are gladiating arguments, I think there's no need to keep this up. Your writing seems well thought and reasoned enough to understand there's no win situation Harry, so, leave it be. There are no insults that I can see, and the point about what the engine handles or not is a bit futile for the time being (and yes, I also don't agree with Mr Love's point of view on this) so this will continue with nothing to learn.

Good luck to you both.

V
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uman
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 16:15
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General comment :

Whatever the ins and out - we can wish away till our hearts are content - at the moment FPSC has a world size of 40 x 40 tiles and thats the max you have to fill successfully if you can.

If you can thats fine if you cant then thats FPSC for you - either way you aint gonna see anything larger from TGC in the near future I would recon.

You can wait around for something that may never happen and keep posting here about issues that everyone including TGC is well aware of and get nowhere or you can just knuckle down and make the most of what we have and get on with it - albeit with all the restrictions and limitations.

Despite the limitations of world size and so forth you can still make a game and filling the currennt world size with game content to a 50 level FPSC default capability itself will keep everyone busy, until and if any improvements are forthcoming.

Who knows if you finish some levels you may always be able to utilise any extension to the world size and add to your levels that you will have made later.

Whatever - wishing FPSC would provide more is fine, but none of us here at the forum have much influence directly as far as I know on how and if FPSC will develop further so there no point in getting up tight about it - which we all do at some time, myself included.

Personally I need all the help I can get I can tell you no matter how much I learn so welcome all other points of view and respect them - even though I may not always agree with everyone most users tend to have some valuable ideas and so forth that can help in some way.

There really is no future in not getting along - it wont do a damn thing to make FPSC or this forum any better or make your game making difficulties any easier thats for sure. After the shoutings over the problems still remain - all that will be achieved by unfriendly dialogue is pain and sorrow.

A united approach is much more productive all round.

So back to the topic - yes we need to have some improvements please TGC and yes we need to be helpful and friendly to other users so that we can all benefit.

If theres something about the FPSC engine itself that causes you grief ask TGC to do something about it - dont take it out on others here - they cant help.

Back to the frustration of game making.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 21st Nov 2005 22:36
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Also there is a hidden factor that TGC doesn't tell you...

The model sizes are that of the ENTIRE 40x40x20. Even though there aren't displayed polygons, it still forces the entire model to be that size by adding blank space.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 00:39
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Well, there are a few examples when TGC has listned to ideas here. Many complained about the AI and it got better. I think there shourld be a FPSC Professional (like DBP). It shourld have Load & Savegame, 250x250 world, faster engine, options menu. Ofcourse this wourld cost more to buy, but I know many that wourld pay the extra for a "superversion" something like £90 wourld be ok! If not I really hope that LEE dosnt give up FPSC. He shourld take a few months off, and then start with V2...


Harry Harrison:
I dont like You, thats enought for Me to avoid You!

Stop listening to rumors! Listen to the truth...
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uman
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 01:55
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Mr Love,

Unfortunately we dont know what plans TGC have for FPSC but I am sure that if and when they make their decision as to what the future holds for it they will make some announcement around here. Hopefully as presumably they would wish to make improvements overall then some of your concerns may be addressed. I do hope so.

I am sure that they are certainly aware of various users concerns and requests - they dont miss much even though they rarely comment.

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Harry Harrison
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 02:32
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Quote: "Harry Harrison:
I dont like You, thats enought for Me to avoid You!
"



This is depressing news

because I think so highly of you.
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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 18:09
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Cease the sillyness, both of you, please. Mr. Love, If you're easily offended, you haven't ended up in the right place. People on the net aren't gonna suck up to you and see you as some kind of god just because you think you are one. Seriously, this whole debate on who's insulting who has gone to the level of pure sillyness, so let's get entirely back on topic.

While CSP on one hand is better than FPSC in some aspects, I prefer FPSC due to it's simplicity. Though, I really want a Save/Load feature. Without saving, you can never make a good commercial game.

One thing to look forward to:
The day FPSC v 1 is released
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Mr Love
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 18:57
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Harry Harrison:
Well Harry, You have a strange way of showing that... I have no problems with You if You just act like everybody else here. Be nice and try Your best to help others here, and everything will be ok!

Roger Wilco:
I dont think I act like GOD! Explain please... We are not here to offend people, We are here to help, to find help, talk about new ideas, and also have a little fun. This wont work if people are rude. As You said, CSP is on one hand better than FPSC in some aspects, and thats good because FPSC need some competition! By the way did You know that the ladders works in CSP!


uman:
"They dont miss much even though they rarely comment" I little bird told Me this months ago...


Stop listening to rumors! Listen to the truth...
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Mr Love
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 19:14
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No, I am not a little bird! (LOL!) It shourld be...
"A little bird told Me this months ago..."


Stop listening to rumors! Listen to the truth...
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Harry Harrison
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2005 21:57
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Quote: "Well Harry, You have a strange way of showing that... I have no problems with You if You just act like everybody else here. Be nice and try Your best to help others here, and everything will be ok!
"


lol.. your funny
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Kenny
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 04:45
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hate to change the subject but something disturbing i found out. look really close at the dancing kid in HH's avatar. that's actually a girl

You just never know.
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uman
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 18:21 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2005 18:22
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What the one with the moustache.

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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2005 19:36
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*Takes out M16. kah kah kah kah kah kah!!!*

Oh my god we killed keny!

Your signature has been erased by a mod
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