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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPSC BOOK: Your feedback wanted! New users especially welcome!

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Jason Webb
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:06
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Hi all

I'm currently working on a book project which will act as a beginner to
intermediate level continuation of the FPSC manual. I've submitted a
synopsis of the project to Rick Vanner and have the approval and support
of TGC for the project.

Ultimately this will be a properly printed hard-copy publication but
I am also toying with the idea of a basic e-book publication covering
some of the basics prior to the full release of the book.

What I would like from you guys is your feedback on what areas of FPSC
have caused (or are causing) you the most grief and require detailed
coverage in my book?

Imagine that the FPS Creator CD popped through your door together with
my book and at the same time your internet connection went down so that
you could no longer access this forum (perish the thought), what would
need to be in my book in order to let you happily progress with FPSC?

I should point out that the book will generally be aimed at people who
are looking to build their own custom games in FPSC with custom models,
scripts and whatever. I think that the supplied manual adequately covers
the basics of building levels using the supplied models so I do not
intend to rewrite this.

Please feel free to list anything that you have found difficult to grasp
with FPSC. Do not be afraid of ridicule for suggesting things that seem
simple. All feedback is helpful to me.

PLEASE NOTE: This thread is only for suggestions of possible subject
matter for the book. Please do not expect an answer to your query in
this thread (repost it in a new thread if you do) and please do not
attempt to answer any queries posted in this thread (see the "PS" below
regarding contributions if you feel you have help to give).

And please, please, please don't post any critiques of people's
suggestions, i.e. "...that's a stupid suggestion, that's easy, everybody
knows how to do that..."

PS: If you feel that you may be able to contribute something to this book
then please contact me directly on fpscbook@musicgenius.co.uk and I will
be more than happy to discuss it with you. I do not wish to discuss
contributions publically in this thread.

Thanks for all your help.

Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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KeithC
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:12
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A FOOLPROOF way to put homemade objects, segments, etc. into your game!

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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Jason Webb
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:32
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You've just jogged my memory on a point I wanted to make, Keith.

Due to the various different modelling programs being used and the
various differences between each one, there's obviously going to be
a limit to how deep the book can delve into the actual model making
process.

It would probably be a case of listing known issues when exporting
an .x file from each different program (choosing the right scale,
flipping normals, changing left to right-handed coordinate system
etc.)

The actual process of using the program to make the model would be
down to it's own documentaion, besides it would be impossible to
try and keep up-to-date as the programs are revised.

Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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KeithC
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:49
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I don't think you get my point. A method in putting .X and .TGA files into a working game entity, etc. Don't worry about which modeling program is used. Just start from the "my model and texture are ready to go in" state; and take it from there.

Does that make more sense?

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:50 Edited at: 25th Nov 2005 18:05
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DITTO Keith

Quote: "I think that the supplied manual adequately covers
the basics of building levels using the supplied models so I do not
intend to rewrite this."


(1)
Corrections to the FPSC PDF Manual should be the first thing.
Like removing the Conditions and Actions from the lists on Pages 86 through 90.
Some of them are not functioning at all, and need to be removed.
Some others have an inaccurate descriptions.

No, I'm not trying to bash the Manual.
I think its great.

I'm simply saying that there are mistakes in a crucial area of the Manual.
Getting scripts to work right was very difficult because of those errors.

Knowing the proper descriptions is easy now that the source code has been released.
But, who has the time to cypher through 26,000 lines of code to correct them?

It would be much better to provide a NEW and Correct Version of those pages mentioned.
In fact the whole subject of FPI Scripting needs to be explored in more detail than was in the Manual.


(2)
"Supplied models" were the keywords to your statement.
Showing specifically how to create FPE files for importing home-made models should be covered as well.
Again the Manual does not go in depth into some of the areas.
A step by step example of creating the files neccessary to import a model would be nice.
Again, this caused me grief.

(3) Creating a Weapon example would be excellent.
I have had no success following the instructions in the Manual.


In short:
I guess I'm suggesting are Step-By-Step Examples of importing "Non-supplied Media".
That is what the Manual doesn't cover, and that is what has caused me the most grief.




Whatever you can imagine, you can animate. --- Walt Disney
All too easy. --- Darth Vader
Just do it! --- Nike
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tschwarz
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 17:55
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Detailed listing of commands in .fps, .fpe files
description of what they do and sample values.
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Jordan Siddall
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 18:14
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This is a great idea! There needs to be advanced scripting aswel as begginers because... Just because
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Jason Webb
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 18:41
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@KeithC

Sorry, that wasn't intended as a direct reply to you, you just
reminded me of something I felt I should say. I do agree that the
best way is to assume that the user at least has a decent .x file
and texture "ready to go in".

@conjured & tschwarz

Thanks for your suggestions.

The breakdown of FPE, FPS, FPI etc. files together with lists of
acceptable values etc. is one of the first things I asked TGC for
when requesting support and will definitely be covered in detail as
I feel that the whole integrity of the book as a useful publication
would rest on the inclusion of this information.

@Jordan Siddal

I am hoping to include some more advanced scripting in the book but
I don't want this to detract from the "basics". Scripting is a major
area and will definitely be covered in detail.

Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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uman
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 18:44
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As to what causes users most grief its the issues, problems, difficulties, restrictions, bugs and so on that are the biggest problem.

What works is relatively little problem by any means of comparison.

Useful though a book certainly would be to users it wont help a great deal the many users struggling to make the most of FPSC.

Certainly an in depth book coverage of any software is a extremely valuable asset so my comments in no way detract from its usefulness and good luck with that. My comments are a general one as to the difficulties many users encounter that would not be greatly helped and in many cases not at all by the content of a book. i.e. most difficulties are editor/engine - issue/problem oriented.

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KeithC
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 18:59 Edited at: 25th Nov 2005 19:00
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Jason-"I do agree that the
best way is to assume that the user at least has a decent .x file
and texture "ready to go in"."

Exactly. That one thing alone has been holding me up from having a plethora of new model material in-game.

Have a good triangulated.X file, and a valid .TGA file, and then you can pick it up from there.

I look forward to it.

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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transient
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Posted: 25th Nov 2005 23:52
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My suggestions are:

1. Have a visual step-by-step guide on making prefabs, importing/changing weapons, and customising the in-game screens and loading pages.

2. Give examples on how to set up different types of physics simulations and how the different physics properties relate to each other.

3. Discuss tips and tricks of creating nice levels and keeping the framerate decent.

4. Have simple examples of how to light levels properly.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 00:48
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Mod, please stickey this!

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SkyCubes
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 04:13 Edited at: 26th Nov 2005 04:13
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Just my opinion, but I think you'd be better off
"rewriting" some of the basics for your book. Let's face it, much of the supplied manual is cryptic to say the least. Including the basics in an expanded format will allow you to market the book to all demographics of FPSC users.

Aside from that, you should include some instructions on custom skycube integration.

--formally FPSCreators--

"Trust no one" --Deepthroat (X-Files)
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daihiey
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Posted: 26th Nov 2005 15:14
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you should
(1) put in how to make your own models
(2) some simple modeling,texturing, scripting instructions
(3) the manual they already have but with CORRECTIONS
thats all i can think of

i make RPGs and FPSs
be nice to noobs, but if they ask how to make a wall smash with a TV!!!
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Evil stick
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 22:08
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I'm kaing a book too...


FORUM n00b THREAT LEVEL: ORANGE
Some thread revival/spam-Some bad grammar used, stupid questions or answers-No direct flaming
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Whyrag
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 22:19
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How to make the title page. jpeg to .dds or whatever. and title music. Or the easiest way to make a cool title screen to start a game with without all the hassel. That would be cool !
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rabid rabbit
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Posted: 27th Nov 2005 22:44
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I think what would be most helpful would be a detailed section on how the AI system works. That should enable us to make characters that respond to our action in a story context. For instance, giving you info but only after you completed another task.

Watch out, this bunny bites...
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 13:55
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Just a thought, but maybe you could include references to where you can find format converter programs e.g. .TGA to .DDS., .3ds to .X etc
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:24
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i dont mean any offence to anyone by this, i also dont intend to flame anyone.

but, books should be written by professionals, people who have had the time to use the product a lot, more than most people.

now i may be wrong, but, it seems that you only joined on november 2nd, so it comes to mind that you may not have the experiance with fpsc to write a book.

i may be wrong, you could have been with this software forever, and just never joined the forum.

but what im saying is, the pros, the guys who have been using software since early development, they know shortcuts and easier ways to do things, which are the exact people who should write the books, to pass on those tips...

please dont let this start a flame war, i just wanted to put in my opinnion.

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KeithC
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:28
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You're right, BullShock...but I don't see them lining up to write one.

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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dpharaoh
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 18:52
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I imagine the process includes research; a macroview of the system and how things work together is very beneficial in getting things to work out.

Forums are great, but I keep losing threads that are important sometime in the future, though I try to bookmark em... a book would be awesome!
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smoked
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 19:26
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i would really like to see a comprehensive guide to scripting... AI and such!!!
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=ChrisB=
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 19:33
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Ignore the pessimests (or whatever it is), just WRITE IT!!

Your signature has been erased by a jealious mod.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 19:53
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I want to know how I can make a game without posting a team request.

-This...is my boomstick!
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KeithC
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:04
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Yep, I don't understand all the restrictions on teambuilding either. Seem like it would promote the product more. But whatever.

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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RJ is out Leave a message
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:18
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Yes, We need more tuts on certain things like how to make your own fpe
files and how to convert the right DirectX format models. So far I have not seen anyone explain the simplest thing on how to AND STEP BY STEP explain this crap in a website and not on a forum! And I\'m realy sick and tired of all these 3rd partys wanting your money for models and menus like this Ricker9 jerk. They should give it away for free because it\'s not like some hacker out there can do it better. Maybe there cash poor or there there just a bunch of con-artist tring to capitolize on FPSC. Go figure.
Rj Independent Action Games

Rj
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Jason Webb
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:04
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Hi all

Thanks for all the feedback and ideas so far. They're all being noted.

@Bullshock

I agree that there are people who have had access to FPSC for far longer
than me. From what I can tell on this forum there are people who have had
the EA edition for 6 months or more and I'm sure that they have a whole
wealth of insight that they could give to new users. However, when people
are still feeling the need to keep asking the same questions there is
clearly a need for information that is not being fulfilled by the
experienced users.

The problem is that being experienced or "professional" at something
doesn't always make you a good teacher. Great sportsmen and women have
often made lousy sports coaches. Having the knowledge or skill is one
thing, but being able to pass that knowledge on is quite another.

I've seen tutorials on this forum which, although very useful, have made
statements like "...if it's the wrong size then change scale= in the FPE
file..." without giving any indication as to what the acceptable value
range of "scale=" is or what units it actually represents. Fair enough,
it made sense to the person writing it, but it still leaves the person
reading it without a vital piece of information which could help them.

As I stated in my initial post, my book is intended to be aimed at the
beginner to intermediate level users of FPSC. If, within my time with
FPSC, I feel that I have aquired enough knowledge in order to help
others then why shouldn't I pass it on while it's fresh in my mind? The
danger with things like software is that the longer you live with it, the
more you take the basics for granted. To coin a rather cheesy phrase:
"You get so far up the mountain that you forget how hard the first few
steps were!"

If a more experienced user wishes to write an "advanced" level book then
more power to them, I'm sure there will be a lot of takers for it.

In closing, this is not a flame, I want to keep this thread on topic, but
please reserve judgement until after the book is completed then, if it's
not to your liking, please feel free to criticise it. Thank you for your
opinion anyway, it was a valid point.


Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:17
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i get what your saying....i remember when i just got the EA, and i couldent figure out how to pplace a door segment, i was placing the entitys!

anyway, thats cool for begginers book. im always open if you need something answered, or dont understand something. but it seems like you have already grasped the concept.

thanks for understanding.

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SarusX
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:35
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Bullshock's your scripting expert, consult him often! Too bad about old Merranvo... sigh. Oh well, time moves on. Books sounds good.


Because no n00b is a good n00b.
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 00:17
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Wow, Raymondj; thanks for the vote of approval! It's people like you that make it worth spending hours over models, bug fixes, and scripts for the people here. You give us the kind of motivation to go on. 10 hours of modeling, UV Mapping and texturing...please; we should feel the absolute desire to make it an even 24 hours. That's the least we can do for people like you, Ray.

So keep your head up, Ray, because when I'm thinking of quitting and moving on...I just think of you, put on another pot of coffee, and keep working

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 02:20
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ya, and by the way, that "Ricker9 jerk" IS working a ton to give something to the community...

i would normally say to voice your oppinions...but if you have oppinions like that, dont.

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dpharaoh
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 03:05
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@Ray, there you go! Stand up and speak up, that Ricker9 sure is crap isn't it, and all those carpetalistss. They prolly never even told you how to get insane framerate by using the hidden save feature: BUT IMA TELL U

1) Build your level, put as much stuff in it as u want. Don't hold back now Ray, bring the pain to all teh p0serz
2) Add some dynamic lightz
3) Put custom properties on most of the entities
4) DO NOT USE THE Editor's SAVE function. This is only as good as teh DarkBasic editorz
5) Hit alt-f4. This will end your FPS trubbles foreva.

Let me know if you need more help. K THANKS
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 04:49 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 04:51
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@RaymondJ & dpharaoh:

Excuse me? Riker 9 is crap? That is really a nice thing to say to someone who has spent close to 120 hours fixing issues with the FPSC and to give it away free and I have never once asked for any kind of money (well, maybe Mountain Dew and Pizza, but that's about it)

Since it's "crap", maybe I should not work on it anymore and let you people whine when things don't work.

-This...is my boomstick!
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dpharaoh
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 11:57
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@Cellbloc: I was being extremely sarcastic because I am tired of seeing these kind of posts from ppl like Ray... look again at the saving tips I gave Ray

Where do we send the Mt Dew and Pizza?
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 12:43
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Yeah, dpharaoh normally spells things correctly; I caught the sarcasm. He's not a "Real Men of Genius", like our good buddy Raymond

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 15:28
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@dpharaoh:

My mistake. Working on Riker 9 gets me a headache sometimes and seeing someone call me a "Jerk" when in fact I am trying to help people as well as give it away free... tends to upset me a little.

My bad. Sorry dpharaoh.

-This...is my boomstick!
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Just One Old Man
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1) I don't want books/docs/tuts unless they're written by pros, but I want them and I want them now. With everything I need. And error free.

2) I want everything for free, and I want it perfect and I want it now. Sent overnight on a CD with free shipping would be nice, too.

3) I don't want any help from anyone who's not a pro on the forums, but I want lots of help and I want it now. Personalized. And for free.

4) I want all the work being done by the community (e.g. models, objects, installers, and program enhancements) to be done right away with no errors and given away for free with full support. No matter how long it takes to do it.

5) I don't want anyone to talk about anything or say anything on these forums that I don't want to talk about or read. Starting now.

- Does that about cover the complaints? If there's anything else I can do to help, please let me know...

/JOOM

* For the Riker9, FPS Pack, modeler people, and those who are actually contributing out there - I don't say much here, but I would like to take time to thank you for the contributions. Paid or unpaid, FPSC wouldn't go far without you. I do make use of your work and help, and I appreciate it.

JustOneOldMan
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=ChrisB=
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Hey Blockey Cell dude, you should come to Fort Bragg calif and we'll go get pizza and some ladies!

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KeithC
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I was stationed in Fort Bragg; it's in North Carolina...home of the 82nd Airborne.

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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=ChrisB=
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82nd? Sweet! Yea, theres no fort here, we just r nammed after you guys.

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Jason Webb
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 14:38
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@Transient

Quote: "2. Give examples on how to set up different types of physics simulations and how the different physics properties relate to each other."


You've jogged my curiosity with this one. Can you please elaborate on what you mean by setting up physics simulations?

Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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Evil stick
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Posted: 2nd Dec 2005 23:48 Edited at: 2nd Dec 2005 23:50
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Alright, for "Just One Old Man".

Quote: "
1) I don't want books/docs/tuts unless they're written by pros, but I want them and I want them now. With everything I need. And error free.

2) I want everything for free, and I want it perfect and I want it now. Sent overnight on a CD with free shipping would be nice, too.

3) I don't want any help from anyone who's not a pro on the forums, but I want lots of help and I want it now. Personalized. And for free.

4) I want all the work being done by the community (e.g. models, objects, installers, and program enhancements) to be done right away with no errors and given away for free with full support. No matter how long it takes to do it.

5) I don't want anyone to talk about anything or say anything on these forums that I don't want to talk about or read. Starting now.

- Does that about cover the complaints? If there's anything else I can do to help, please let me know...

/JOOM

* For the Riker9, FPS Pack, modeler people, and those who are actually contributing out there - I don't say much here, but I would like to take time to thank you for the contributions. Paid or unpaid, FPSC wouldn't go far without you. I do make use of your work and help, and I appreciate it."



1) Ok, "HEY LOOK AT MY UbER 1Ee7 M@nu@1!!!1!!".
2) Ok, "Oh, AND D1d 1 M3n710n! I7's $20!!1!!1"
3) Ok, "AnD I @l$0 0fF3r $upP0r7 for FPSC!!1!!1!!"
4) Ok, "aND @l$o thIs wa$ 4ll d0n3 by my pr1v@t3 73@m!!!!11!!!!"
5) I think all of the above covered that.


I don't want this to be a flame, nor insulting, just funny. I did it for fun, and there is no FPSC 1337 guide for $20. Once again, please don't consider this a flame.




And something for you writing the book, whoever you are, I can help make it, as I have had EA since it came out, and of course now have V1.


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transient
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 04:49
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@Jason

One of the things that really got me hooked on FPSC was the volcano spawn test level.

I just thought that maybe having more practical examples like this would be a great way of encouraging people to think a bit differently about their level designs.

HL2 had some cool physics based puzzles and gameplay - I was sort of thinking along those lines.

The manual is also a bit vague about the descriptions of physics weight and friction and I thought you might want to elaborate on these a little more as well.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
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KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 05:01
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You aren't hassleing Just One Old Man, are you Evil Stick? That wouldn't be good....

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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Nue B
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 14:43
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Number 1. The most important chapter in your book will be SCRIPTING!!! We all love FPSC, but if we don't know how to create the FPS we imagine than it's a pointless endeavor.

Nue B. or not Nue B. That is the question.
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Jason Webb
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 14:57
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Thanks Transient, I get what you mean now.

Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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Evil stick
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 15:20
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So like I said, I've had it for awhile, so I can help you.


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Rick123
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2005 15:59
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What are the chapters that will be in the book?
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Jason Webb
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Posted: 4th Dec 2005 15:58
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@Rick123

Quote: "What are the chapters that will be in the book?"


You tell me!

Seriously though, there are no set chapters yet. The purpose of this
thread is to find out what chapters are needed. Like I say, the book
is intended to be beginner to intermediate level so is intended to
inform but also to inspire independent thought and experimentation.

Best Regards

Jason

Owner - Music Genius Publishing
http://www.musicgenius.co.uk
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KeithC
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Posted: 4th Dec 2005 17:36 Edited at: 4th Dec 2005 17:47
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Is this book going to available in PDF format? Any approximation on a price?

-Keith

"Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them".
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