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the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 03:48
I have just read an article on porn in computer games. Has anyone seriously considered such a game?

It has to be mentioned at some point?
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 04:00
It's been done to death actually, even in mainstream titles such as Strip Poker and Lullu (where you had to make porn movies) to Elvira the leather goddess (predominantly text adventure ) and some might even add leisure suit larry (graphical adventure).

After extensive testing I can honestly say none of them jiggled my joystick as much as Special Reserves advert for cheap ram.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 04:06
Strip poker is hardly a porno title. There have been a few. The main problem is porn in a game is just not playable.

I was very curious since anyone who can make a playable game that is also pornographic will make a lot of money!!!
That is a fact.

I took on the bitches in RTCW and they were the most amazing sprites ive ever seen on a computer. Can anyone top them?

BoB Vila
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 04:15
I did play this cheezy 2D game back in the day its graphics were only slightly better then maybe gameboy color, but this was prolly about the late 80's when I ran into this game and who knows how long it had been around..

Anyways it was called MC POP. The plot was that you were an ordinary man stuck in the palace of temtation. You had to make it out of the maze like castle alive, but you had this countdown timer that as time went on your sexual frustration meter would raise and you would eventually die. But there were random girls throught the palace that you could sex with so that you could reduce your sex meter. But if you didn't have any condoms or ran out of them, you would run the risk of STDs. There were also other perils as well but it was many many years ago so I don't really remember. Who knows, maybe you could make up a 3D game like that.
the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 04:34
I am not planning a porno game myself.

I have thought about it though! A well created game is woth its weight in gold. But that is a point. If the aim of the game is to avoid having sex with the characters, but the scenes were very well animated and illustrated, would any one actually complte the game?

gbuilder
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 05:01
Well violence has been taken to extremes in PC games. Apparently it is OK to distort young minds with Realistic killing and maiming but it would appear that pushing the boundaries of sexuality is too risky for Game publishers. After all One can now be jailed for having certain porn on a hard-drive. Even if the images in games are completely computer generated, the social taboo associated with Porn may be what is preventing large scale production of such titles.

gbuilder.

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 05:12
Well certain porn on the hard-drive means under-age porn, which is a disgusting concept if I say so myself.
ATM there are few porn games because there is no market. Why? Because of the social taboo, and the unrealism. The games are so fake! However, in 5 - 10 years, maybe 20, it will be mainstream. Remember 20 years ago? Swearing or blood, nudity, excessive violence etc would never have been shown in a movie. Now we have on TV, in video games, etc. Pretty soon our worl will degenerate to the level of porn being another part of our everyday lives.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 05:33
I agree with rapscaLLion about the certain porn thing.
I have no interest in child porn. I was interested in the fact that when it comes to porn. game writers are completely stumped. Apparently some big game houses have considered it but found it unplayable. It has nothing to do with moral groups, apparently.

the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 05:49
Remember that the film industry can make a generous living using pornography as it's content. It is interesting that in the game industry is does not have any impact. ie no top shelf games.

I

Plutarck
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 06:38
The main problems I can tell are as follows:

1) Conflicting basic demand. In short, what do you want your came to do?

When it comes down to it, porn pretty well means "masterbation material" (MM) - and that rather conflicts with playing a computer game, and neccessarily limits just how involved you can make the game.

If not for the aforementioned MM, then to add titillation and excitement to the game. And you know...I'm stunned just how comparitively rarely this is done. Often games just don't focus enough on making you want to hate someone, or make you love someone, or make you just plain lust after someone. This is, to a certain extent, neccessarily limited to character based games - but even those rarely do a very good job at it.

You need to be a good writer with a good working understanding of practical human psychology - it can most absolutely be done, and in thinking about it I'm surprised that it isn't. However, consider the further problem...

2) Narrowing your market. Thing is, people like different things, and often not just "like", but "will not like XYZ at all" - so that is an issue that must be dealt with. If you make the game gender-specific, which you would largely have to, then you are limiting your market right there.

In addition to the 5 sexual orientations (hetero-male, homo-male, hetero-female, homo-female, bisexual), you further segment your market in other ways. For the game industry proper (the Big Boys with Big Budgets), where some 90% of games are economic failures (truly, apparently only some 10% of games turn a profit, if that), that absolutely Is Not Acceptable. The problem is that the costs to make a game are not going down, nor are the revenues going up (probably more like Down) - the internet and better more widely available tools and resources is making this better, but damn, it so far has gotten, on the net-figures, worse.

3) Difficulty. For porn, frankly there is just too much of the super-high-quality "actual real-life video" stuff to go around - so why would someone want to play a game at all if what they really wanted was porn?

4) Distribution problem. Fact is, Wal-Mart ain't gonna stock what is obviously porn. They just aren't. Nor are most of the other places in America - Europe may not be so choosey. Still, if you are looking to America to make money, that is a problem - a massive, unbeatable problem to the big businesses, as it appears.

Note that movies don't have such a problem...but frankly, the vast majority of them just aren't real porn in the strict sense of the term. The rest tend to be flops anyway, and the rest are just so rare to be hard to recall.


When it all comes down to it, it seems that there is absolutely a doable possibility (no pun intended) for a serious, quality game distributed via the internet which is much more strong and actually Mature about its sexual content. But it is pretty much a pioneering/entreprenurial effort, with all the unique issues that entails.

If it is just porn and not for free, porn sites are already begining to get into/consider this market, as far as I am aware. Just nothing especially noteworthy, so far as I'm aware.

"My house has a 3D interface. I'm constantly losing crap, running into things, and it's always a mess."
Juso
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 12:05
rapscaLLion: How do you remember 20 years ago? According to your profile you are 15 years old
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 13:52
Raps they were shown... i mean Conan the Barbarian isn't really as sevear as current movies, but still had alot of nudity, swearing, sex, etc...

its not so much the fact that its a taboo as such Raps - its more a fact that almost 75% of the market are under 18s, this means that your largest market can't buy the games and the rest of the market doesn't really care for it.
I'd rather go down the pub get some girl and enjoy the real thing for like £40-50 rather than get a game and stay in with my friend Pam ()

but thats just me i suppose

somehow i don't see porn really becomming a big thing in computer games, because its just not something you can integrate or make acceptable for everyone... without widespread appeal then ya know is gonna fail.

Take a look at Conker's Bad Fur Day, basically the whole of that is a typical british humour laden'd with ALOT of swearing, inuendos and double entendra's
but a parent would purchase that for thier kid because its not some nakied chick say, cycling about doing all kids of obscene stunts on a BMX (ya'll know the same i'm on about )

no market - no games, really is the motto ... however anyone who's played TheSimsOnline, will know that adding Sex as a big part of the games subject is a different matter to outright porn

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 14:43
lol thanx Raven I was about to bring up BMX-XXX - Thats a new BMX console game for ppl who don't know that has naked modes unlockable and when you do well you get bad quality soft porn as a reward. Personally I felt it was just adding the risky content to try and get some sales from a predominantly bad game. Funnily enough it failed spectacularly

My favourite "pornographic" game was Duke Nukem 3d, the uncensored PC version, where the early levels were set in a red light district, with Porno theatres, private booths with magazines and toilet paper, strip clubs, and table dancers that danced when you put money in their underwear, which floated down to earth comically when u blew them up

Some were outraged, but it was very tongue in cheek, not realistic at all and personally I found it funny, bold and original at the time. Anyway, you only shot them if you were curious as to what happened, so you could only blame yourselves Cya guys l8r, I'm off to kick ass and chew bubblegum. And I'm aaaalllll outta gum

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 16:09
Didn't someone write a porn film director "game" in DB once? I'm sure they did. Hmmm... I know the thread is on DBDN, I'll dig it out.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Oraculaca
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 16:43
Plutarck -'When it comes down to it, porn pretty well means "masterbation material" (MM) - and that rather conflicts with playing a computer game, and neccessarily limits just how involved you can make the game.'


I bet you some sickos already drawing up plans for the

wankOmatic(tm)'lets you play your porn games, hands free!'

Not-Mr-Thumpy wrinkled his nose, it was suddenly hard to concentrate
spooky
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 16:57
I ran a shop in Central London for a few years selling computer games for Amiga, ST, PC, e.t.c. and we innocently sold a stupid game called 'Geisha' to a customer. Game was designed to look dodgy with cardboard packaging coloured to look like a brown paper bag! (game is some silly graphical adventure with very soft porn elements to it)

A week or so later we appear in one of those women's magazines with a full page spread about how we sold porn games to under-age children!

What is this world coming to?

Gronda, Gronda
Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 16:58
there is a game even worst then BMX-XXX and that is private dancer.befor u see the naked women you have to play cards if u loss a hand the computer call u sum thing dum like what a 13-year old boy wood say.that sum up the game i think.

--Dr 0--
Attreid
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 17:57
If anyone make a such game, be careful, it is only for adults

I'm following John, but I'm not john.
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Galiem
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 19:19
I think it could definitely be done, but only three ways, and under certain obvious rules.

The rules would be this:

1: The game could only sell to adults, so the rest of the game content would have to be aimed at that market

2: The porn in the game could not be the main plot or selling point. It would have to be a simple occurance. You couldn't make a video game based around sex. It wouldn't sell. It should basically only be used to add realism, as described below.

3: The developer would have to consider the sexual orientation of the players, which would make nudity possible, but actual acts would have to be carefully designed, and consentual. By consentual, I mean that a lewd movie scene involving any sexual act would need to be completely optional, if existant at all.

The ways it could be done, which would work, are as follows:

1: Remakes.
Imagine a pornographic version of mortal kombat (can think of a title, swapping the o for u and adding an h but won't say it). Basically, the only difference between it and the original would be that the characters are nude, and the finishing moves (fatalities, etcetera) would be either altered or expanded to include certain acts. This poses quite a few eithcal problems, however. In this example, the main focus of the game is violence, which would insinuate that any acts between characters is rape. That makes this example a probable no-go on the market, though many people would still buy it, it would never get a major market share.

2: This possibility has some serious potential. The idea is to make a game specifically marketed for adults, but not specifically marketed as porn. The game would be like many other games. It would have a genre, plot, be at least somewhat character based, etc. The nudity or pornographic matierial in this case would simply be used to add realism. Basically, nudity and sex happen in the real world, so if you are making your game as realistic as possible, it could happen.

For this possibility, I'll take a major title, and give an example of how it could have included pornographic matierial tastefully, and without taking away from the gameplay or content itself.

Consider Hitman (Code Name 47, or Silent Assasin)... If one part of the game involves going into a house after a target, certain rooms in the house could have certain normal activities. For example, someone may be in the shower, or certain things may be happening in certain other rooms. The realism of the actual target being engaged in certain activities when you reach them is even a possibility. It would be entirely optional to the player whether they would actually enter the rooms with the pornogrphic content. Just like if a real hitman arrived at his target's house while they were involved in some sort of lewd activity, Agent 47 could simply wait until the target finishes what they're doing.

3: Massive Online Games.

It has been requested by players numerous times, but no company has risked tarnishing their image to do it. The idea is an all adult server. On this server, language would not be so restricted, and naked characters would actually be naked, not simply sporting a default outfit. Certain emotes could even be added to the server.

All in all, this is the most realistically possible way to include pornographic matierial in a game without effecting the bottom line. Basically, all servers are open to everyone, but the adult server requires a password from a reputable age verification service. This would allow parents to buy accounts for their kids in the game without worrying about them logging onto the wrong server.

Here's the major problem, though. The media would have a hay day with it. I could see 60 Minutes talking for 15 minutes about how this immoral company included adult content in a MOG played by kids. They would probably mention for about 5 seconds that one would need a second account with a reputable outside company in order to access the taboo content. This would make less tech saavy or more conservative parents avoid the game altogether. The masses are inherintly ignorant. Many would simply pass judgement without listening to the details, or even caring to learn anything about the subject of their judgement.

For this reason, a company would have to be very careful how they introduced the content, and would risk completely screwing their public image. It could be done, but would be difficult, and would be a public relations nightmare.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 19:38
Nah there wasn't Rich... we thought it was made in DarkBasic, but it was obviously made in something else - had a site where you couldn't download the demo cause it was "unfinished" but you could buy the full thing.

pretty typical underground german game...
since there have been games, there have been porn versions - and they've always failed, unless you can add humour or something to it (ala Larry Series) then really they won't sell well - mainly cause as i mentioned, those who would play it can't and those who can don't want to

personally i think its bad enough having the Games Watchdog breathing down everyones neck as is for violence and crap - last thing i wanna hear is a crackdown and games arn't allowed to be able to have even bikini women like in DoA: Beach Volleyball (is actually a good sports title) being upgraded from like Teen to Adult content...

always the problem when people try to outdo each other and step on "iffy" subjects that everything even with milder versions of the content suffer - if the game fails no one cares, its when they actually suceed that we'll all have a problem on our hands

and Sonic that is kinda sick, but c'mon "Gaisha", no one was even a little suspicious about what it was about? lol

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
gbuilder
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 19:38
Some statistics...(Newest I could find)

"2000 Survey by Peter D. Hart Research Associates and NPD Group - US statistics
Survey released by the Interactive Digital Software Association (IDSA)

Three-in-five (60 percent) of Americans age six or older, or about 145 million people, say they routinely play computer or video games.
Nearly half of these game players (43 percent) are female
the average age of computer and video game players is 28 years old.
61 percent of all game players are age 18 and over
more than 215 million computer and video games were sold in 1999.
Video game sales in 1999 grew to $4.2 billion, a 13.5 percent increase from 1998
PC games sales increased from $1.8 billion in 1998 to $1.9 billion in 1999 2001."

Note that the average age of computer and video game players is 28 years old.

gbuilder.

AMD900mhz, 256mb Ram, 64mb GForce2 MX400 Graphics card, Windows 98se.
David T
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 20:01
PC Gamer by any chance?

Visit [url]www.lightning-systems.co.uk[/url]
You are the th person to view this signature.
Galiem
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 20:06
Architect, if the article is on the net, any chance for a link? Please note if they have screenshots of examples.... Am at work, so would want to avoid it in that case. However, if not, I'd be curious as to how it reads.

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 20:12
Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball is a really cool game and the amazing graphics certainly help the initial interest and the gameplay sucks you in. Has to be said tho the women are astoundingly gorgeous, for cg ones

"Imagine a porn version of Mortal kombat" - well there was thrill kill, but that was banned - for a slightly less pornographic - more "titilating" and utterly hillarious Mortal Kombat style 2d fighter, check out http://www.bikinikaratebabes.com - its quite good, in an knowingly awful kinda way

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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xtom
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 21:32
235.5mb!! curse my 56k modem
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 21:46
lol about half of that is the fmv sequences

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ToXic
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 22:35
Well I duno guys & gals, almost 140 Views to this post & 25 replies in less than 20 hours. maybe not such a bad idea architect

ToXic
the architect
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Posted: 4th Mar 2003 23:45
I dont remember which mag it was in as it was in my mates comp mags pile. If I can I will let u know which one.

I do not want to write porn software myself...I've no will power and couldn't cope with the research. However if anyone does write one I would be happy to playtest it for u...

I was just amazed at how such a lucrative part of the market has not managed to get as tight a grip in the games market as it seems to in every other form of entertainment.

Misanthrope
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 00:03
USB pocket pussy using force feedback, anyone?

-Misanthrope
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 00:30
is that a pocket pussy as in for the pussy or as a pussy?
lol ... not that it matters - always wonder'd the thrill some guys 'n' girls get from toys

something about them just doesn't seem right to me

just downloaded that Bikini thing, that is really dire ... seriously bad but also funny KG

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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Thade!
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 06:59
After all that theoretical stuff - what about a true story?

Okay - 1983/84 I was market leader in homecomputer magazines here in Germany. But at the end of 1984 a lot of freaks thought they can make the big money and about 40 new magazines were launched within 3 month. Most of them went broke with their first edition. But we who had 1.2 Million copies printed and in the shops had to suffer as well - didn't sell enough of them at that time (typical - people try new things out) and so the nice money we had made in that 2 years was gone within 2 month and our 25 employees had lost their job and in Jan. 1985 I was with 1.5 Million $ in the red numbers.

What to do? Okay - I started to produce Software, what else - an Adventure, a Racing Game and several Platform Things in Donkey Kong Style, 2D-Shooters, aso.
2 month before we placed the advert (colored - 1 page in each of the bestselling Computer magazines - very expensive) my wife said to me: I think we will get deeper in the red numbers with that lineup. We need to have something no other company has. What about some Sexgames?
Sex always sells - Well - okay, I said, I'll do my best - cannot be wrong to add 2 or 3 of that sort - she always had good ideas and after all that time I must admit, she never was wrong.
To cut a long story short. The day when the advert was on the market came and I was sure the adventure will be the top-seller.
But was quite surprised - in the first week we had 12000 orders for "Girls They Want To Have Fun" for the Commodore 64 and enormous 6 orders for the adventure, 2 orders for the racing game. The next week brought 25000 orders and that continued during the next weeks - got even better. After 3 month we had made twice as much money as we lost during the year before.
And we had our fun when we read that the Number 1 of the Gamecharts had sold 50000 Copies in Germany throughout the year - LOL - we already had sold 300000 copies of the CindyLauperSongAdaption what we of course didn't make public for several reasons.
And of course we made some more "Games" in that style - and of course they were successful - but never reached the numbers of the first one again.

And - where light is there is shadow ... here's an answer to one of the questions above - someone asked himself why this has never been a (known) big market. I could tell you some of the reasons.
One is, that after a while you have to buy your complete computer range every 3 month new - because the "old" ones are at some criminal police station. Some father or teacher had gone to the police because he found our games in the "Collection" of some young guy. Not provided by us - we made sure that it was sold to over 18 year olds only. But it was reckoned that there were 20 Million pirate copies worldwide by the time we had a range of 25 Titles - Did I tell you that we sold this "Software" (that was not soft at all) to Japan, Saudi Arabia, Australia and all over the world after we put some ads in British Computer Magazines?

Well - and you can see something else - how close gloryland is near to the graveyard in that business - without my wife's idea we wouldn't even have been able to pay the adverts

Aloah and ciao
Flashing Blade
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 15:31
you played chess?

its full of porns, halthway through the game a queen took another queen, and a bishop took a horse!

disgusting.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th Mar 2003 22:47
lmao

Oh and Spider - glad some1 else was releasing games back in the day

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Rob K
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 00:03
"halthway through the game a queen took another queen"

Tipping the Velvet

Seriously though, CG porn is usually so bad that it is worthless. The biggest problem is that there is something about CG models, even in movies which makes them look as if they are made out of plastic. This is a subtle point but one which effectively renders the idea of porn in games ATM null and void. Somehow barbie dolls just don't sell. However games like Conkers' BFD with a good dollop of humour but not always actual porn do pretty well.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Fluffy Paul
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 05:31
Drinks from the furry cup, eh?

Seriously though, unless you can get it anonymously I can't imagine teenagers buying it - they're so shy!

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 16:50
Lol Tipping the Velvet was blummin funny

RobK: http://www.xbox.com/doaebvolleyball/default.htm?cs_catalog=cat%2dus
Mmm Plasticy Oh and for any1 who hasn't read Loaded this month, the site http://www.realdoll.com is amazing yet somewhat trgic at the same time lmao

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 6th Mar 2003 22:44
I am 15 years old, but I have seen old movies, and talked to old people!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 7th Mar 2003 02:42
Sorry it should be obvious anyway because of the nature of this thread's title that the realdoll site is for ADULTS ONLY (back away Raps lol j/k) Its hardly porno (otherwise I wouldn't have linked at all) but still, no kiddywinkies. Still - the technology is amazing - but quite, quite sad

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