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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPSC vs. DBPro

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 00:30
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Hello,
I have Dark Basic Pro and Dark Basic Classic. Both are decent programs, but not as good as they could be.

What would the positives and negatives be about the relationship between FPS Creator and Dark Basic Pro.

I already know that FPS Creator doesn't require programming skills, but I am curious to know other core facts about it. Don't know if it is worth me spending $50 on it when I have Dark Basic Pro.

Let me know please.

Thanks

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
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Zedane
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 01:03
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FPSC was made in DBP so it takes what DBP can do and just makes it easier on the people that use it.


around here.. normal's just a setting on a hair dryer
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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 01:13
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Was the FPS Creator Editor made with DBPro also? It doesn't look like it.

I downloaded the demo of FPS Creator and it looks very clean. A little hard to use, but maybe that is because I didn't look at any instructions.

When I use to use DBPro I would always end up with a low FPS, but I guess that was all because of my code. I had smooth play with FPSC and you say it was made with DBPro.

Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
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alimpo83
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 01:14
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Well, I've only used FPSCreator for a couple of days but I can say to you that was compiled in DB PRO, so it's a program made with it lol . That means that graphically it's pretty much the same. You don't have the same liberty on creation of course, since you are limited to scripts. Yet, and since you seem to know how to program in DB PRO you could come in handy to the community, since you could improve the FPSC (TGC will release the source code soon), by adding new capabilities to the program.

As Pros, I've seen the easy editor that the program has. The level editor is by far one of the easiest ones i've ever used, compared by example to Unreal Ed or something like that. As a con the level editor is made to produce in-door levels especially, but outdoor levels are easilly made too, if the editor is in the right hands. The use of lighting and the creation of it is very easy too, has the program calculates it far well; the dynamic lighting is easily done and the results are pretty good, yet sometimes the rendering process is a bit slow. The placement of entities(since furniture to enemies) is also easy, and you attach scripts to them(multiple ones). The problem is that many are not that perfect, and some of what we use in enemies make them look, well, real dumb. But the scripts are easily editable too, of course. The models are in .X format.

For now it's what I can say. Hope that was helpful!
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 01:19 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2006 01:20
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DBP wins.

Shere possibilitys, FPSC is very rigged, you can coax it, or reprogram it, but it is hard to get what you want.

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
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sadsack
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 01:50
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Stay with DBP
renny
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transient
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 08:35 Edited at: 3rd Jan 2006 08:36
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As far as I know, FPSC is the first time DBP has been used to make a game on this scale, or even close.

In theory DPB would provide a lot more flexibility, but do you have the coding skills to make your own FPS?

Even the veterans around here don't seem to have done it (yet).

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
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Bored of the Rings
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2006 13:59
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DBP would be my choice out of the 2. Having said that, the FPSC editor easy to use and you can build mock up levels fairly quickly. Whether you use DBP or FPSC, you still need original media to make your games unique in look.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 01:14
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FPS = large model with mobile camera using physics to keep it in walls.

That I can probally rig, and FPSC code is a good place to learn complex commands.

Many DBP'rs have made FPS' search for them. Heck, look for David T's Mercenarys (WIP Board)
Notice, the WIP board is probally cleared constantly, old threads are probally deleted.

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
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transient
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 02:26 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 02:27
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Nobody has made an FPSC with as many features, weapons, characters etc. etc. as FPSC.

I've been browsing these forums since apollo started, and I haven't seen anything close to this.

Mercenaries 2 is currently in hiatus while David T gets used to 5.9.

Hamish has started an open source FPS project which seems to be going well, however it seems to be far from finished.

I'm not deriding the efforts of the DBPro guys, there's some great stuff, but so far no one has completed an FPS project yet that I know of.

In any case your talking about DB veterans whose skills would own anyone here, which was my point.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 10:35
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The thing with FPSC being written in DBPro is that DBPro now has and is getting some neat FPS writting tools. For example, since FPSC's development there's a built in lightmapper, built in physics, better occlusion, better collision (including a new line intersect system by Sparky). All of these are commands that a FPS programmer would kill for. We don't have full functionality on this stuff, heck my FPS game won't even work in anything but DBP 5.7, but for anyone considering their options for writing FPS game, they can't ignore DBPro - I mean for people using other platforms and systems where none of this is done for you.

FPSC is a good milestone for DBPro, it shows that all the functions are there to write your DBPro FPS game, even using FPSC to help do it, but it is a lot harder than most people expect. AI for instance can be really tricky to get working decently, but when it's your own systems it becomes fun because there's nothing funnier than your AI going a bit insane, that's the stuff that keeps us interested.


Van-B

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Person99
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 11:33
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According to the reviews of over 15 sites, and myself (Don't have the full version yet), DBP is an older, less advanced version of FPSC.
FPSC is quite new, and has physics, and a ton others.
With good programs (3dsmax + ms3d, adobe photoshop cs2, ect), you have no boundaries like my fortune cookie says... (Nothing to do with the post, but Its been forever and I still have the paper).

The FPSC has a much better engine. DBP has been said to crash frequently.

In the above, FPSC has the upper hand.
But this is where DBP has a chance.


Does FPSC have the source code available too?
(I Do not know), if not, then DBP has gotten
a step up in a heavy gamble.

It can be further edited.

BUT, if my fortune cookie is correct, you can still create aloot of stuff with FPSC scripting.





Thats just from reviews and stuff.

I wish I was only 3400 years old...
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Vlad
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 13:49
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I had something written here more than three times, but always avoided posting it.

The thing is: they are not comparable. In fact, the only thing DBP and FPSC have in common is the programmers framework.

DBP is a language to create games and FPSC is a package to create FPS games. It largely depends on what you want to do, then choose a software. Why not comparing it to DarkGame then? (sorry I'm almost in love with DarkGame, so I can't stop talking about it)

FPSC with it's good and bad is a unique piece of software, where the models alone are it's money's worth. It cannot be compared with a programming language or an SDK since the final product is the same, but the approach is 100% diferent.

Quote: "We don't have full functionality on this stuff, heck my FPS game won't even work in anything but DBP 5.7, but for anyone considering their options for writing FPS game, they can't ignore DBPro - I mean for people using other platforms and systems where none of this is done for you."


Hey VanB, you don't mind if I include DarkGame in the description do you?

Quote: "FPSC is a good milestone for DBPro"


Actually, it's the prove of what can be done with DBPro (or DG ) Personally I never thought DBPro could manage something like this until I saw it.

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
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Van B
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 14:08
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FPSC was written in DBPro, anything you see in FPSC is or will soon be possible in DBPro, like the lightmapping and the physics etc. It's not like FPSC has a better or worse engine, because it's all DX9c, really the render engines are practically identical.

At the end of the day, it's really upto the coder or designer to set the quality - it takes a very long time to write a FPS game in DBPro, but you could write a cool FPS in under a week in FPSC. If you use DBPro then it might take years, but your not limited by anything else - your not prevented from doing something just because the script engine does'nt support it, because you have to write it all. Script systems only ever tend to please the author - like when you can make your own commands to do what you need then using scripts is fine, it's when your bound by other peoples that they become a nuisance.

I think that we'll see some interesting games made in DBPro but using FPSC's level engine - which is DBPro code so you can add whatever you like to it. Using FPSC as a media and level engine solution for DBPro would be a good way to speed up development.


Van-B

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Vlad
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 14:22
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Quote: "I think that we'll see some interesting games made in DBPro but using FPSC's level engine - which is DBPro code so you can add whatever you like to it. Using FPSC as a media and level engine solution for DBPro would be a good way to speed up development."


I couldn't agree more. It may take sometime since (looking at Riker 9 thread) it's a tough cookie, but eventually someone will appear with a custom engine based on FPSC-Game.exe and using FPSC Editor to speed up the level design.

I even add that those projects will be a quality breakthrough if a very special team is gathered: a good modeler and a good programmer both with FPSC knowledge. Wouldn't that be a bang?

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 4th Jan 2006 22:43 Edited at: 4th Jan 2006 22:45
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Van B, although I may be wrong (I've been saying that a lot) but FPSC doesn't have a true lightmaping system. Getting my hands on that editor code, it isn't hard to make it realer...

Ifact=(intensity/distance)
newcolor=RGB(Ifact*Rnum,Ifact*Gnum,Ifact*Bnum)

give or take, that is the basic idea, and probally could be put in easily (since FPSC does calc object colsions when light mapping)

This would improve FPSC by ten fold. A simple thing to do, and doesn't hurt FPS. It only hurts the time to build the levels. FPSC makes texture overlays (once again, me saying words I don't know). So I don't see why DBP'rs can't use that. And it only uses real lights when it needs to. Like with weapons and dynamic lights.

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
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