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FPSC Classic Product Chat / How to get help in the FPSC forums

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Vlad
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Posted: 6th Jan 2006 12:04 Edited at: 9th Jan 2006 23:01
Hi

This is not a rant, but more of a way to prevent the flames and general noise level in these forums. If people here want to be flamed and answer in a rude manner, it's their problem. The thing is, there's nice hard-working, very knowledgeable people here that are posting and participating less and I have a gut feeling the problem is the noise, swearing, ranting, etc.

These are not easy forums. FPSC targets many for ease of use, others for the fun. The ease of use brings a lot of younger people and those who invest sometime for fun have and use FPSC more as a hobbyst tool and have other matters to attend. This is a clear clash and problems appear.

How to get help then? Quite easy.

0. I owe this one to Merranvo, here's one mate! More important than anything else: write properly. Most people that are older and that have a higher degree of knowledge and patience to learn and help, often don't read threads that are written badly for lazyness or bad habits. Why should people help guys (and gals) that are lazy?

If you don't believe me, check around and see which threads and/or posts have more attention: the ones written with the posters best effort.

1. Don't write "i wunt gazilion modles free plz cuz my game rulz and i cant modl" because those who model take their work very seriously usually. And it takes them hours to put up something good. It's lack of respect towards them and artists need appreciation. It's a personality thing.

Try a different approach: "Looking for (insert theme here) models" and then explain what you want in the post and say you want it for free. People will understand and you will probably get help.

2. If someone disagrees with you, read it, think about it and don't react immediatelly. If you react you loose your reasoning and even the ability to understand that maybe you are wrong and the person that disagrees with you is right. If that happens, it's your loss and the more it happens less people will want to answer you, unless of course, you are making their day as they read your non-sense posts and laugh until they get a heart condition.

3. Don't swear... you know... the ******** thing that people are using now? I remember a time where this didn't happen in these forums. It's really bad and the more * you use the less help you'll get.

4. Never say you know more, you are bigger or more experienced. Usually those who say it know less, are smaller and have less experience. Internet forums have been around for sometime now, so almost everyone can pinpoint this behaviour from distance. Moreover, if you are that good, why should we lowlifes help you out? See the point?

5. Don't answer back, don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, don't make threats, or it will get back to you. People will slowly (or not so slowly) loose patience for your nonsense and stop helping you out.

6. More important: you can't know what the person on the other side is thinking. Maybe it was just a joke... maybe they really are trying to help you out in a weird way, but they are. Why start a fight for nothing? A joke maybe seen as a rude answer when it's not. Don't react! Take your time and more important, have fun!

Hope this helps the oldies to settle and the news to join in.

Although the writer of this post agrees with the general idea behind the 7 rules of the ANJL, this post is not affiliated with ANJL or any of it's members.

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
Mabuggi
18
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Joined: 11th Dec 2005
Location: UK - Universal Kingdom
Posted: 6th Jan 2006 14:05
Cheers Vlad -

It took me a good 'bedding in 'period for sure, to figure out the tones used etc, and its not like its my first time on a forum either

Surely the mods could simply not let the ultra-newbs post something which falls into the above categories?

Your comments are much appreciated from me.

Like you said - if someone posts rubbish they just wont get help, and I fear the people who have the knowledge and like to help polite people out are just gonna stop helping. Why would you if some is rude and impatient?

DAB Studios
transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 6th Jan 2006 14:36
FPSC has just gone retail in the US so I think there'll be a bit more craziness coming our way soon.

I think the diehard fans will hang around, even if they decide to take a break from the forums here and there.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
Vlad
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Posted: 6th Jan 2006 15:04 Edited at: 6th Jan 2006 15:04
Thank you Mabuggi, you really got what I wanted to say. My first impulse to write this was because of the swearing. There are too much "*******" like words going on the forum and that really kills my fun. On the other hand I thought it would be better to offer some help instead of just jumping in throwing rocks.

I think you might be right transient. I did stay away from the forums for a couple of days and returned. Sometimes I feel I have no place here, but still I get back again. I don't know, some of the people here is quite nice and have interesting personalities. But if we get a big wave of people spamming the same questions, leet talk and general non-sense, the diehard fans will have less patience and the knowledge lies in those fans, not the new guys, so less help and less comunity and FPSC works better if people help each other.

Thanks for you replies.

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
Mabuggi
18
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Location: UK - Universal Kingdom
Posted: 6th Jan 2006 15:18
No no - thank YOU Vlad.

I wanted to say the same thing - and came in throwing rocks (ive slapped myself for that though, but I do learn after my mistakes - ask Transient

Its just things like "dont post unless you have searched the forum"

Most newb answers are in here somewhere (EDIT) ALL newb answers are in here somewhere. Its a question of patience and the ability to use a search box.

The biggest lesson I have learnt in game design HAS to be patience. Nobody knows all the answers. The intelligent ones are the ones that know how to FIND OUT the answers.

Ask nicely, dont expect an answer in 10 minutes, and look at others posts.
Ive learnt more in randomly looking at this forum then I have asking my own questions and sitting there for an answer. Chances are someone else has had the same probby as me and has already asked.

I pray the good guys wont get upset and leave this forum - the support is what holds all this together.

DAB Studios
sadsack
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Joined: 27th Nov 2003
Location: here
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 01:15
Most of the people in here are not to smart kids, and they will be that way untill the grow up.
Deadwords
19
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Location: Canada
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 03:54
Thanks Vlad for the post, i hope the concerned people will read this.

Skalex - Nobody can ear you scream ... you're on a forum!
=ChrisB=
19
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Joined: 23rd Jun 2005
Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 04:06
I allready kinda did this, but no sticky . Maybe VanB'll see this one and put some digy glue on it.

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Vlad
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 11:48
Didn't see yours I think Chris. I don't like to ask for deletes, stickies, etc, but the helping threads that have been appearing for somewhile now could get a stick so new people can see it.

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
Les Horribres
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Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:22 Edited at: 7th Jan 2006 23:24
Well, half the people here are elitists, so they don't WANT help anyways. *sigh* In fact, today I was in the mood to actually HELP FPS Mastermind if he hadn't
1. Acted like an Elitist (By painting an image of him being [BIG])
2. Insulted me, for asking if he truely had any programming experiance. (Which would have told me if I would be helping, or doing.)
3. And then blamed me for flaming him, when he clearly was the one flaming.

Now I remeber why I left in the first place.

You should edit 1 to be "don't post in a way to try to get peoples attention" Help threads which are "Help NOW, plz help PLZ" are ignored more then threads such as "Help- Can't Make Level".

Also, 1337, IMA (Instant Messaging Abreviations), or Phonetish (Phonetic Spelling); is not legible. Extreme misspellings cause tentions, and often are ignored.

And this is BUMPED. Remeber, Elitism is out (the bragging side, not the doing side, no one disagrees with that)

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
Vlad
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 00:26
Yeah Merranvo I know what you mean. To be honest it was because of you I wrote that we should sometimes relax and see the joke as a joke.

People should know better... *sigh*

I'm putting that idea of yours about writing in english and I am hereby bumping this thread.

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
RJ is out Leave a message
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Location: The butt end of the U.S.
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 03:50
Do you think John Romero, John Carmack, Scott Miller, The snobs who made UNREAL used a forum to make there games ? I didn't think so.
Don't respond to this just read it because I'll just laugh and go about my business.
Rj

Rj
uman
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 04:21 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 04:25
Quote: "How to get help in the FPSC forums"


By and large you do it by being polite and talking in a sensible manner which others can relate too, understand or at least consider talking the time to try and decode.

=ChrisB=
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Location: starring into a viewfinder
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 05:24
I realy wish uman or i were mods..... or both of us.... HEHE! Boy, I would have some fun with LaymondJ (nope, the atorney STILL wants me t keep this joke secret. He's afraid of loosing money. greedy old fart, you know.....)

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Vlad
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 23:02
Speaking of mods, don't you guys think that this hard effort deserves a better place than the bottom of the pile?

V

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
=ChrisB=
19
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 00:54
Yea, I also wish that theyed hang around here more often.

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Mabuggi
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Joined: 11th Dec 2005
Location: UK - Universal Kingdom
Posted: 11th Jan 2006 15:45
Perhaps a little "bumping" in the meantime.

DAB Studios
Benjamin A
19
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Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:25
I in general enjoy helping people. Before I started using FPSC for my projects, I've been using different game engines. For a number of them I've created some tools, scripts, models and even some complete game templates to use as a starting point for games. Also I did actively be involved in the forums and try to help people. FYI one of the game engines was used by kids a lot, the others weren't.

I always enjoyed visiting and offering help at those forums (even at the kids one). People were very courtious, helpful and polite. But I hardly visit this forum at all and do not offer the help here to the extend I do at those others. For a number of reasons.....

1. People are often rude and impolite around here.
2. Very little moderation.
3. This is the main one..... I've noticed that only few seem to be willing to even learn how to use FPSC properly. I've seen such basic questions asked, that anyone can know the answer too and don't need asking at all.
4. This is the second main one..... An unwillingness to even learn or understand scripting. FPSC scripting is very very very easy to learn and to apply, yet many don't seem to be willing to learn it.

I know a good book is lacking, but is it really needed at all? You can easily learn FPSC scripting, by opening one of the many supplied scripts and start experimenting with them. Works great. Also all of the commands are clearly explained in the guidebook.

I've been very reluctant in helping people, I'm afraid I'll end up using most of my time in helping people once I start doing it and getting flamed by others who I forget to help. Too many users around here are way to demanding and show much to less initiative.

I'll keep on giving my scripts for free to the community once in a while, like I've done before. Poeple can use them, adapt them, change and so on, but I'm not going to fullfill every demand and small change people want in them. I'll provide the base, the rest is up to the user who uses it......

MegaMusic Pack 01.... 31 original soundtracks for your games!
http://www.aeilkema.dds.nl/mega/index.html
Van B
Moderator
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:29 Edited at: 11th Jan 2006 16:30
If I sticky this, then everyone will want a sticky, and there's already too many stickies here as it is! . Anyhoo, just keep filling this thread with netiquite advice and it'll stay afloat, actually if we started a fresh thread, with advice for newbies and kept it strictly business only, then that would make a better sticky.

How about that? - I'll make a new sticky thread and you could re-post your advice, anyone not posting advice get's their post removed, then it'll be like a 1 stop shop for newbies desperate for acceptance .


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
Vlad
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:34 Edited at: 11th Jan 2006 16:34
@VanB

That would be a great fresh start to all of this effort and I would be delighted to participate.

I'm pretty sure I know everything. Doubts are something rare in me and I am never wrong, as this signature can prove.
Shadows Back
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:36
yeah that would be kool

Shadow
Van B
Moderator
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:44
Righto, hopefully the other mods won't pick on it just because it's pretty, but there's a new sticky waiting for all your impartible advice.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
Shadows Back
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Posted: 11th Jan 2006 16:45
thank you van b.

Shadow

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