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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Optimal Performance In An FPSC Game?

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The Lone Programmer
21
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Joined: 29th Jan 2003
Location: California, USA
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 21:08
Hello,
I have been crafting little simple projects with the FPSC, and I notice that it is very laggy. Now my computer doesn't have very good video game spec's so I thought maybe it was just me.

I sent the game to my buddy, who plays games such as F.E.A.R., Doom 3, and Call Of Duty, but he said he experienced a large amount of lag as well. He says all of the games that he plays have zero lag.

It's understandable to be laggy on my computer, but why his? The games I make only have about three or four AI, and the map is incredibly small.

Why is it so laggy, and what is the best solution for making an optimum performance game? Also when I build the game all the settings are on minimum quality.

I would appreciate if you got back to me.

Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
GGardar
19
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Joined: 23rd Sep 2005
Location:
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 22:37
Have pre-rendered corridors and use falsh windows and only windows if they are the opjective. And just have the enties Dinamic if the are part of the story line. And if the game is laggy hit tap on the keyboard there you can see why the fram -rate is low. And see the memory the game uses. And polygons per slice. And remember have the game linaral. And more thing the player see's on the screen the more the engine has to render. Don't have large empty out door area. And if the textures are bigger. the more memory the grafic card needs. i just don't have time to give write more advise.

pc. Cpu: 3000 amd xp+ ram 2gb
Les Horribres
19
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:44 Edited at: 7th Jan 2006 23:45
Prefabs are not pre-rendered, and those make un-original games.
False Windows punch holes in the walls, this STILL slows the game down, so that won't work.
And dynamic entitys don't hurt the FPS too much, just by 2-3 fps.

The game primarily uses your own ram, so if you have lag, (and at least a 128MB Graphics Card) Textures won't do anything against you.

What will is full light mapping, because Full Lightmapping is a high-def texture that changes alot. Dynamic lights are a sin, they kill FPS like no tomorrow (I lose upto 8 FPS).

Large areas are okay, It is what is inside those areas that hurt you. If you fill a large area up, then FPS will suffer. So it is a good idea to have walls and such to break the place up.

Doors cause other problems, it is a good idea to have a wall directly after your door, this prevents the game from counting polys on the other side of the door. If needed, make a small room before getting to the bigger room, to keep polys down.

Don't place doors directly after doors, Doors are windows, they make holes in the walls. So if you have a small room, don't put the door strait ahead, put it on the oposing sides.

Don't connect rooms. Any thing the plr can see in the other room is counted against you, and anything you cant see is also counted against you. If you do connect rooms, make sure that it is only a small looking into a big.

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
The Lone Programmer
21
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Joined: 29th Jan 2003
Location: California, USA
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 00:48
Hmm,
So to put this into perspective this is what I heard:
1) I am screwed
2) I am screwed
3) I am screwed

Let's put it this way. What CAN I do in FPSC? It seems like you guys told me all the things I can't do, so lets find out what I can do.

I don't use preflabs. I go into the segments tab and construct my own buildings for the pieces of preflabs. Don't exactly know if that is better or worse. I rarely use doors, and I never use windows. My maps are very small and usually filled to just the right amount. Not crammed with stuff, but not empty.

Not sure exactly what dynamic entitys are. Both mine and my buddy's RAM are well over 1GB. He has one of the best 256MB cards while I have a 64MB card. I am well aware that my PC is not a gaming PC.

I am feeling limited. Can you guys give me a simple game scenario that works. Like design a level in words, and I will try to imagine it. Cause whenever you guys said one thing that works, it seems as though you said something else to cancel it off.

Let me know,
The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
Tom0001
18
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Joined: 30th Dec 2005
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 01:00
Maybe it is because you have put rooms with only a door inbetween. Try rooms with corridors, that should increase the fps.
transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 02:02 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 02:02
Have a look at this game
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=68728&b=25

It had little/no lag on my computer, maybe you can get some tips from him.

Also your comparing $50 game engine with ones worth $500,000 or more.

It's not a fair comparison.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....
Les Horribres
19
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 03:08
HL and HL2 are worth $60, and allow full modding.

Merranvo, The Cool One

Anti-Noob Justice League, an ANJL of Mercy.
The Lone Programmer
21
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Joined: 29th Jan 2003
Location: California, USA
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 03:18
I don't really use doors because I do not find them really necessary. I just use hallways with openings and stuff. So I don't think the doors are the problem.

I have Half-Life and Half-Life 2. How do I go about modding them?

A game engine is just a codebased form of DirectX correct? So if it is laggy then it is in the fault of the code no? All DirectX is the same so it hase the same potential right?

I have heard talk about newer releases of FPSC, and possibilities of free upgrades. Maybe in future versions to come, the game engine will be improved to get rid of a lot of the lag?

Tell me about it please.


Also, I heard that a part of FPSC is open source? Where can I download this part?

Thanks,
The Lone Programmer

"Is The Juice Worth The Squeeze"
-The Girl Next Door
uman
Retired Moderator
20
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 04:00 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 04:02
The Lone Programmer,

There are a lot of threads at this forum regarding speed issue posted over a long period of time - many of them quote well known principles of good BSP type level design which is fair comment perhaps.

However BSP and engines in general and machines specs have moved on somewhat over the years since the bsp format was invented such good design principles became well known.

FPSC by and large does not utilise the level rendering of process efficiently, has some bugs and the engine is slow, there are also specic issues to FPSC regarding the capabilities it has with AI thoght process handling which are quite inefficient.

Having said all this there are ways specifically in indoor levels at least to keep levels at high fps. These are most directly "in my experience" and I stress that point, seemingly most related to the sealing of level completely - that means every instance of any possibility of any leak wherever it may occur. This relates to the point of good level design, particularly important here. That does not mean it has to be always unduely resrtrictive.

As an example which may be helpful to all and relates specifically to static world objects of any nature. (segments or static entities)

For example if you take a curved or corner wall segment. Never, ever place this alone but always insert an outer series of normal wall segments which will encompass the curved walls and form an outer surrounding room which even if never seen in gameplay, nevertheless seals the level part off and prevents leaks. This principle goes for all building structures and is particularly releveant also to other potential offending objects such as door areas, windows - and corridor and duct areas that can it seems lead to leakages. Seal it all off and you will save fps.

Dynamic entities and particularly AI thinking enemies are another matter - actually AI thinking and thought processes are a well known drain in all engines - Advanced AI requires a lot of math - the more sphisticated the AI processes including pathfinding the bigger the drain and engine designers are all always under pressure find the best solution to their particular engine needs. FPSC is not well optimised for this and as a result AI enemies are a big drain on fps. This is not really particular to FPSC as an engine - though the point could be made that if you need and include AI and pathfinding which would be a good idea in an FPS engine, then that capability should be just that - capable. Suffice to say many users will find that they cant utilise the number of dynamic entities especially enemies they may like to see in their games.

FPSC is capable within limits - what those limits are exactly in various scenarios I personally have not fully come to a conclusion on.

By and large I am only now when getting to stages of coming close to pushing FPSC to limits how optimising can best be achieved and where the user in fact cannot achieve possibly by any means the kind of efficiencies required in large complex levels. My assessments continue.

Needless to say in theory the better your system the better FPSC games should run. In reality thats not always the case as it depends much upon a particular system design at the manufacturer core component side as much as it does with the user influence and how and what software technologies etc have been installed or added.

I can say that I have two main systems I have tested where I can run games on made with FPSC. One is approximately twice the age and power of the other, yet it runs FPSC in both editor development and final gameplay more smoothy than the newer more powerful machine. Clearly a difference in machine manufacture or FPSC preference or both, nothing more that I can ascertain as both machines run the same user software installations. FPSC is much happier on one machine than another despite a vast difference in power and more modern hardware - it prefers the lesser, older machine.

In my opinion not agreed with by many I know. Engine Quality should in theory not necessarily have anything to do with the price of the software. However in reality thats invariably not the case.

Certainly FPSC is a slow engine overall for a variety of reasons and is both memory and cpu intensive being a very agressive program suggests the code is somewhat inefficient and or the engine struggles to keep up with the math much of the time. One cannot expect to run it on a low spec machine. That said it seems that the results are somewhat erratic across a wide variety of systems.

If an individual as in your case cannot run FPSC efficiently enough to make gameplay viable - then you have only a couple of options. Keep the level content minimal, optimise everything and use the good design parctices mentioned and if that fails then you have no option but a better machine, with no guarantee that in fact that will solve the problems but should certainly help somewhat towards your goal of smooth gameplay speeds.

Effectively FPSC games require more of everything (higher system specs and more hard work from the gamemaker) than AAA titles by and large to succeed during gameplay as the engine is just not as efficient as that used in the making of High End commercial titles.

transient
19
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Joined: 22nd Apr 2005
Location: Australia Zoo
Posted: 8th Jan 2006 09:37
It's simply naive to think TGC can compete with the big boys in engine creation and sell their product for less than 50 bucks.

If the guy from "Project Nowhere" can make a smooth running game, then I don't think we have any excuses.

instinct is more valuable than intelligence.....

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