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3 Dimensional Chat / It's not even possible to do any Motion capturing, is there?

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cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 18:54
Is it even possible to do motion capture animations at home?
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 18:57
if you can afford it, motion capture is expensive, but you can buy Endorphin (which is expensive too *cough £8000, but not as expensive) which is a program that simulates motion capture, you can download a demo of the internet to try it out)


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
Mucky Muck Ninja
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 18:58
Are you talking about using motion capture to animate a 3d character? Like with gollum in lotr? I don't see why it wouldn't be possible if you had the right equipment.

Explain to me why some people pay money for 3d software? Its not 3d till its been blended. wwww.blender3d.org

''From now on we will travel in TUBES!'' ~Tenacious D
cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:02
How does this "Endorphin" thing work? does it come with wires you connect to yourself and do stuff like walk on a treadmill, or do you need a internet camera thingy (people use it on MSN, can't remember the name).

Also, I guess the Gollum analogy would be correct, yes.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:09
Endorphin is a virtual motion capture program, its for those who can't afford the all expensive hi tech stuff to motion capture with, it simulate the desired effects with motion capture, I've barely used the learning edition, but you don't need to wire yourself up or use a webcam, but motion capture is expensive which is why you see studios use them and not indies/freelancers.

Actually I think Gollum was animated in Endorphin, I now they used it in lord of the rings


"I want to put a bullet through my head everytime I think of you!!!"- Slayer
cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:11 Edited at: 15th Jan 2006 19:15
Ok, I looked it up, and it sounds cool, but it also sounds like $10,000. What's the "student license " thing? It's only $1000!
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:13
Well its simulated to work like motion capture animations, I think it has built it motion captures, I can't really explain what it does, I've barely use it


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cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:16 Edited at: 15th Jan 2006 19:18
Well, doesn't look like what I'm really looking for. I'm talking useing wires and stuff, and doing it yourself.

By the way, thank you for being patient. Even to myself I sound like a retard.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:30
you don't sound like a retard, you sound like some one new to something Well, from what I understand motion capture is an expensive business, which is why I suggested Endorphin, what sort of price are you looking at, I could redirect you to another forum where there are more people to help with that sort of thing - http://forum.3dworldmag.com


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cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:34
To be honest, I never specified if I was going to buy it immediately. I merely asked if it was possible, so I can use this as a future reference when I get money and start making more advanced games.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:38
oh right sorry, it should be possible if you have the space, but I wouldn't recommend it, as generally studios buy and use Motion Capture stuff


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cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:40
Thanks for all the help, it'll be a great reference
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:42
no problem dude


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Epimetheus
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:44
http://www.metamotion.com/gypsy/gypsy-gyro.htm

one of the cheapest, and still $80,000.

I really suggest you learn to keyframe animate, not only cheaper, but it allows you to get unique motions not possible in real life. And with programs like Character FX and pacemaker that let you use inverse kinetics, it's not so bad.
Epimetheus
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:46
http://www.metamotion.com/gypsy/gypsy-motion-capture-system.htm

^Lowest priced full-body motion capture system

$20,000
cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:48
Bloody crap, those are some monster prices!!!
John H
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 19:54
Yeah, thats why generally the individual artist doesnt own a set of full body motion cap, rather the company you work for. EA Games for instance, for all of its madden games, gets professional athletes to come in and throw on the motion capture suit and spend a day tumbling around the studio, because honestly, whos going to do the animations better. A real life professional athlete, or some guy on a computer trying to simulate them as best as he can?

Even professional animators dont all have the luxory of using motion cap technology, or else there wouldnt be Animation classes at tons of universities. You cant just expect that your going to have motion cap technology, so you better learn how to animate the "down and dirty" way If you do have the cash for one of those motion cap suites, by all means go for it. Youll have a ton of fun diving around your living room, and youll produce some great animations Still gotta know how to rig a model though!


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cloneboy
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 20:01
I never even thought of how to rig it to a model. that'd be pretty tough
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 23:40
What RPGamer is saying is true, I know a few 3D animators from other forums, most of them animate manually, one of them works for a studio that uses Mo Cap, but doesn't use it at home.

But if you ever do decide 'I want motion capture' this is probaly your cheapest option (good thing I was reading a magazine whilst my PC started up )

There a program called Simi Motion Cap 3D, it uses cameras instead of those wire things, it looks pretty kewl and clever, by the looks of things you need open space to use it to get the movements in, it was designed for Home Motion capture, and look its cheap (well cheap as this sort of thing gets) £4,420, $8,430

website -> http://www.simi.com

But personally you can achieve realistic looking animations with out the fancy stuff, I mean the animator for my DBP project did a pretty convincing death sequence on my character model


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Tapewormz
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Posted: 15th Jan 2006 23:48 Edited at: 15th Jan 2006 23:53
Go to http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com and buy some technique/instructional DVD's on how to use Maya. You can buy Maya PLE http://www.alias.com/glb/eng/products-services/product_details.jsp?productId=1900003 for 29$ from Alias.

The DVD's will teach you how to design, model, rig and animate your models.

You can't use Maya PLE to sell your objects or software using the objects, you'll have to upgrade your license to do that legally.

Joh
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 01:52
Rotoscoping. Tried and tested affordable alternative to motion capture.

Things you need.

- 2 ccd cameras
These are your typical, security or babysitter cam types. Don't need color or sound and look for the made in asia ones, not great but usually alot cheaper and still works.

- 2 tripods
Cheap lightweight types or anything that can prop up the cameras (which are tiny and light anyway).

- Video splitter
This is the main cost. The kind that you usually see for store security, that takes a few video inputs and outputs to tv as splitscreen. Again, you really only need the B/W one, so a lot cheaper.

- Video capture card
Dont need a fancy one. I used a GForce4 card with video in. Its crappy 320x240 avi capture but thats all you'll need as your not editing the next blockbuster.

Other items.
- TV (any old one)
- Video cables from both cameras to video splitter, from video splitter to TV and PC for capturing.
- Lots of masking or gaffer tape (okay, you don't need alot but always comes in handy )
- Whiteboard marker/Pencil or scotch tape
- Video editing software (again you dont need fancy one, just typical cut/trim, export avi. There are usable freeware/shareware ones)
- Ample space to set everything up.
- Actor or person doing the motions.

Okay I think thats all. So very quickly, this is how to setup up and how it works.

First, find the spot you're going to use and where you're going to place the person. Put down a cross on the ground with masking tape. Setup the cameras at the front and side of the spot. Use the marker/pencil/scothtape and make a cross on the tv screen. Adjust the camera positions until the crosses on the ground and tv line up. This does not have to be spot on. Just abouts is good enough.

Now, get you actor to do his stuff. Capture the splitscreen output. Once you've captured all you need, the rest is done on the pc.

So, lets say you've captured a cool disco move, lets call it disco.avi, and you captured it at 320x240. I used a 4way splitter. which should have front camera,side camera and 2 blank. Bring the video into your editing software. Crop the front camera, which will be 160x120 and scale it back up to 320x240. Yeah, so your actor is nice and smudgy, it doesnt matter as long as you can see all the motion. Save this out as discofront.avi and do the same for the side view.

Load up your 3D software, I was using 3dsmax at the time. Load up the model that has been setup for animations. Set the frame rate and length to that of the video. Load up frontdisco.avi as a background in the front view and likewise for the side view. Now just start keyframing the animation to match up to the movements on the video. I generally start with keyframes every 5 frames then add where required.

Its really fast to do since you have the front and side views synced.
John H
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 02:47
That my friend, is a very, very clever method! I must try that sometime!!! You should make a new thread, I'll throw it into the "Posts about 3D Worth Reading" announcement.


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Joh
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 07:55
The method is really an extension from traditional cel animation rotoscoping and current animator techniques. Rotoscoping is basically tracing over video footage. There has been a few movies, only one I can think off is, The Lord of the Rings (1978), thats the cel animation one folk. Incidently, the new LOTR, Gollum was animated with both mocap and rotoscoping, with the animators prefering the latter (from the making of..).
A friend and I came up with the idea, I was working for his company and we needed an fast,efficient and affordable animation setup. We never got round to finishing the second part, which was supposed to be a video tracking software, which would then create the motion data.

Just to give you an idea of the setup we did.
http://www.gamebrains.com/ver3/html/studio/webcam.html
Its a lowres webcam shot, but the setup is in the foreground. The black square with the cross is the stage. You can kind of make out a tripod in the middle. The desk on the right, monitor and capture setup.

I couldn't find my old documents on setting it up, so I'll have to make a new one. Then I'll post it on the forums.
cloneboy
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 13:23
WOW! That's awesome! That sounds like it'd work perfectly! I've gotta check that out.
Xenocythe
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Posted: 16th Jan 2006 17:10
Lol, I dont know about motion capture, when I animate I get up and act like I'm the animation my self and place the image of myself in my mind, then animate my character to it

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