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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Who wants to get into the games industry?

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Xoid
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 21:32
Hi!

just wondering how many peeps want to get into games programming in a professional capacity?
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 21:54
Much as i'd love too be a professional games programmer there's not much demand for DBPro programmers commercially and I do not enjoy working in C++ or taking 2+ years to write games.

I guess i'm doomed to be in the realm of shareware for the rest of my life!

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
MrTAToad
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 22:58
I dont particually - I want to do things at my own speed, and not when some 'project manager' says it should be ready...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
HZence
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 23:24
I do, but I wanna be in business for myself. That way me and my team are in control, not the publishers and money-driven "leaders"...

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 23:29
money-driven "leaders"

The thing about money-driven people, is they tend to be very good at making it.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Xoid
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 23:39
HZence, although it sounds good 'be your own boss' and all that, to be honest it's the customers that are your boss, because they have the power to fire you and your whole team by not purchasing your software
pugmartin
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 00:59
I would have loved to have been a part of the industry during the spectrums dominance. I was too young to program at that time and never really got into it big time until the back end of the amigas lifespan. Dammit!!! I think everyone had a much better chance of making it into 'The Industry' back then. Personally, i think most of the original stuff nowadays (if not the only original stuff) comes from shareware coders, and their LOVE of their creations, rather than greedy publishers looking for the next sequential update of Tomb Digger Deluxe etc...

That picture actually is me you know...
Can anyone post me a banana?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 01:16
Xoid... tell ya what, we'll swap professions
that should crush your 'i wanna be in the games industry' spirit

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 01:28
... oki a little more serious note, unless you're someone who REALLY enjoys doing this - and you really wish to say goodbye to a social life, start out with crap pay working true god aweful hours, working on things which normally when you were developing for yourself you'd never want to touch but now have to ... then really you have to think long and hard about this.

When you get into any professional, you start at the bottom and work your way up - and at the bottom you're used as the lacky ... this is when your love for what you do comes into play, because you'll find out then and there if you could possible hack it.
Students get a shock comming from fulltime education believing that as soon as they start within some small company that their lives become easier - and if you have any kind of this dillusion then just drop it.

the Smaller the company the more jobs you have to take onboard, the more hours you must put in, and oftenly you have to do aspects of the job you personally can't stand.
only once you finally get a high enough status within a larger development team can you start to relive the days when you actually had pure fun just creating... but even then there are alot of pressure upon you.

the industry is a majorly fickle mistress as well, there are alot of decisions that will affect you by people who havn't a clue what they're doing and want the impossible - and you're not to argue but achieve the impossible for them... and if things go wrong you have to make sure that you're never the escape goat.

you have to take all the flack from hardened fans of series bitching about how the games used to be and how you've ruined them with new graphics or new features they don't like ... and having your work torn apart peice-by-peice by people who've never coded a line or put a polygon to a workspace in thier life!

the professional aspect of games development is just like any job, it has its good days and it has its bad days, and it has its "OMG why the hell is this shit happening to ME!" days.
Don't be fooled by the fun you have developing here or as an amature - because the second you don into a professional company the most precious think that allowed you to have true fun in development is taken away ... Freedom of Creation

you're told what to do when to do it, and you must create within those perametres. There is no "oh i think i'll make an FPS this time" ... because if your publisher and production managers say that RPG's sell, that is what you'll be making!

its not glamourous, it is business - and you should come into it with the right mindset that you are there to work and not just have fun, else you'll have your love for what you do taken and chewed up and spit out into a million peices...

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 01:35
@PneumaticDryll: Point well made, but that's not necessarily true. (Though I'm a programmer, I know a thing or two about business )

@Xoid: Thanks for the advice. It's good advice too. But the truth is I'm already experiencing running a personal organization. I promise I won't let it go to my head though...heh

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 01:39
P.S. I take it your in the business Raven?

the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:06
Well said Raven. BRAVO!!! Some reality to a situation does not go unappreciated.

On the other hand how many people have worked on an assembly line. Doing the same thing constantly everyday, with no room to think or evolve. I dont think any job u take on is wot u think it will be. Wilst u moan at your own disposition there r far more in a more terrible position.

Like you said students r shocked and disullusioned. But nowadays that is true of most careers. Yuo have to prove your worse. Be thanksful of what you do Raven!!!

How many people come home and carry on what they do as a proffesion because they obviously have enough passion to do it?

Take u. You moan and cry out a warning. And yet almost every post has you offering advice or expressing an opinion!
Dont tell me you get no satisfaction in your work. Im not having a go at you, ever since Ive browsed these forums Ive seen you help as much as you can, in your own time. Or do you have so little to do at work you browse the dbpro site!

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:19
At the age of 8 I was offered a job at Ocean over the telephone - I had to try and explain to them the high pitched voice was because of my age and i'd get back to them in a few years! Anyway that's bye the bye...

After leaving college I worked for the Amiga's largest software house (i've said this before I know) and thoroughly loved it. I hated travelling the world, but the high technology environment was amazing.

I worked on the worlds first MPEG hardware decoder card for the Amiga, I invented the Iranian teletext system (it's ok - they where allies then and Iran not Iraq anyway!) - i'm not sure I should admit that incase they find me, I think the guy who sold it to them did a runner!

I did installations on cruise liners and worked at the cutting edge of computer television technology - some days drawing animations, the next day designing the hardware that would display the animation. The day after i'd build it, and the day after that i'd print my picture on the circuit board for the hell of it.

I've also worked in factories, some where they credit you with inteligence but most where the manager has reached a level of dimwittedness that is actually so closed to the world outside of the factory that they wouldn't recognise a spark of inteligence if it struck them in the head whilst answering the million pound question to Chris Tarrant.

I know what I enjoyed doing more.

Of course now? Well now is another story altogether...

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Matto
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:22
I'd like to get into games making as a profession if I could work from home and if I could learn while I was at it from scratch(somehow), as what I know now wouldn't suffice or be that usefull. I'd accept low wages because of this and it'd be a bonus for me not having to work nights elsewhere(not at home) becuase I have 2 children to look after in the day time. I somehow think not many would like these conditions from a perspective job applicant so I'll have to keep it a hobby for the next few years and see what happens, unless you have a good offer of course Xoid?

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:31
Hello Matto and I have to say Ditto. Nice to know someone is in the same boat as me. I hope you have a spouce. I have 3 kids who I adore but looking after them alone, would be the greatest challenge.

Whats xoid?

Speedhorn
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:35
I think he means "Xoid" - a forum member who posted on this thread.

Ralph, Jesus didn't have wheels.
the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:37
DOH!!!!!!!

Xoid
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:50
What's Xoid? good question architect

I'm a 'step' dad of 3 - damn hard work hehe underpaid programmer who needs a career change.
the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 02:54
u r a step dad of 3. That is summat!

I couldnt do that.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:02
Architect don't take my post wrong... i enjoy what i do almost a much as life itself, and i've worked extremely hard to get everything i have

but i was just saying, that not everyone has the kinda dedication that people like myself take ... so many people when things get hard will run a mile. Or when they can't figure something out they'll sit there and say "oh well i've worked my contracted hours, i'm going home"
because although you can do that, that is not the trait of those who wish to do well.

i mean over the past year i've calmed down alot from working like 8-9hrs at work (atleast), comming home and checking the forums ... and getting on with a few pet projects. To me it is a dream that i get payed to achieve what i love to do - but to me, there are no real bad parts to development. If i'm programming i'll sit there and unless i'm strapped for time i'll do my damn'dest to figure out what the problem is - sure it piss's me off that it doesn't work, but just because something doesn't work exactly how i want it to doesn't mean i should scream "bug" and give up. It just means i've gotta rely on more than just my memories of howto program and start thinking about the work i'm doing more closely and logically

same goes for 3D ... god sometimes i could just scream at ChilliSkinner and alike for pissing me about for hours, but when i look back at wasting those hours there is no regret about it, because i've learn what Chilli will and won't do. And although at the time i seem stressed and annoyed with it, i'm having more fun thinking my way around it because for me the greatest satifaction is to work ages on something which i can't figure out .. and in that moment of the breakthrough when everything falls together - THAT right there is one of the greatest feelings you can imagine.

The best thing i can think of is seeing something that i've concieved, right there infront of me ... if i can imagine it and go onto make it, i can't think of a better high. Might just be me, but that is a far better and longer lasting feeling than any of the drugs and alcohol anyone will take, because everytime you look back at it no matter how many times you get that exact same feeling of acomplishment.

This whole industry is about the attitude you come in with really ... if you think your fancy degree's will get you far, you will never get great. It's that level of dedication that if any of you doubt should just look at the product that you are all using, because DarkBasic is a product made from that same dedication and determination
When you have that, there is nothing you cannot accomplish - and there is no book in the universe that can teach you howto do that.

if you don't find yourself sitting there letting your mind wander and all of a sudden you think of a way to improve something you've worked on. Then you'll never become the likes of Sid Meir, John Carmack or Peter Moylonex.

seriously a social life to a developer is just a joke, as you'll find even when your out, your with your mates, having a laugh ... suddenly you'll get an idea in your head like "damn if i only cross product the opposing vertex and use a Tangent on the Z axis i can get the exact vector for the lights projection for that bump mapping" - and from then on until you know that you've stored that info somewhere that will be ALL you think about.

I mean alot of people believe this is obsessive behaviour, but you find its only in jobs that people really love that they end up thinking of them all the time. It's like with anything - if its on your mind 24/7 then its a marmite situation (you either love it or hate it)

even when i was working as a Teaboy for a major developer, i still had alot of fun - just cause i had to go down to Costa or Starbucks every hour or so, make sure everyones files were in order, make sure people know when things were, etc... i still thoroughly enjoyed myself, because just being there and sitting at a terminal - i'd plod something out and help out where i could, learn new things. I mean my actual jobs have to be some of the most boring chores in the world, but still being around it all and picking up what i did - watching how everyone worked flat out to get titles off the shop floor within the time limit ... it was cool

but this isn't for everyone, and perhaps the lessons learnt now about development are those learnt wisely ... because first rule of development is there is always another way

if you can't see it then you don't really know the problem yet (^_^) probably the most true statment you'll ever know, because if you don't fully understand the problem how can you fully think a way to develop a solution?

if anyone tells you that dedication is just staying up late and working on a problem, tell them they're an idiot ... why? because the mind works best when refreshed, if you can't figure something out and your tired ... grab a few hours kip, and believe me the problem won't seem as daunting. That is what dedication is, being able to focus on a single issue until it is fixxed
Ahh being a stuborn bastard has its advantages somedays eh?

well i've wasted alot of everyones time here ... and i'm still kinda sleepy, but i want to finish Rose's stuff - its important to me that i do

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:20
Raven

Ive come somewhat late in the creative way. I always wanted to develope my skills as a graphic artist when I was a teenager. I had good drawing skills. But for me my academic hopes were dashed when my parents asked

"How will you pay your way through college."

Not

"Well done son for getting that place."

Instead I ended up getting up at 4 in the morning to scrape cockles off a sand bank at Talacre(Dont ask). Because that was the proper and sensible way to earn a living according to my 'betters'.

At 32 years old I finally get my HND and it seems to mean FUCK ALL! But now I do see I way I can exploit my own abilities for myself. Appreciate what you've been able to achieve and understand us losers who want to do the same.

Yes I did say 'COCKLES'.

the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:28
I do appreciate where you are coming from on the "mind on the job" direction. Quite often I have risked personal injury from the wife because an idea or solution has materialised and I want to try it before it slips back out...or I stay up all night because I really want to solve THAT PROBLEM!

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:36
"Then you'll never become the likes of Sid Meir, John Carmack or Peter Moylonex"

Ah, John Carmack. The original Duke Nukem Trilogy & Commander Keen Saga! Those were the days.

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:39
"...if you can't figure something out and your tired ... grab a few hours kip, and believe me the problem won't seem as daunting. That is what dedication is, being able to focus on a single issue until it is fixxed"

That explains programmers that sleep in their office over night just so they can get right back to work should something come to them! Lol. That'll be me someday (I'm only 16)

the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:39
Pah!!! That stuff is still knew comapred to what Ive seen. Who here has eagerly waited for a game that uses writing for graphics, generally. That was not a clever ploy or effect, it was a limitation. Can you guess on what!

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:42
Well obviously that retarded X-Box system.



the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:46
Whats wrong with shareware.
The whole world becomes your market.
You and your money handler are the only ones after their peice of the pie.
You dont have to go for all that cutting edge nonsence.
You can work from home.

BoB Vila
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:51
You can never really guess what someones experience will be like. That like someone who made a few million in the stockmarket there formula for success, there isn't any.

Different companies are ran in different ways from different angles. People start in different ways too. Just like in the music industry, some people work hard, play the clubs, struggle for years and years and then finally they break into it and are a top name. Some people happen to popup and become an overnight success. I don't know if there is any rhyme or reason to it, but thats how it works.

Everyone talks about Amigas, and Commodores and all the old machines. What about the Early 90's when Shareware was king. Companies like I.D. popped up seemingly overnight.
Shareware was so hot back then that I think you'd make more money distributing your wares at computershows and on services like Compu-Serv and Prodigy then you would at major retail outlets. The companies that sold 3.5 disks of shareware for 5$ a piece made a killing too.

In the past few years its seemed as if Big Commercial publishers have ruled the market and consoles have seen a major Boom. With some real heavy hitters.

Pugmartin said he missed out on the Spectrum years, which at the time nobody prolly felt like they had missed out till it was over, just like everything else. So you've got to focus on what the new era will bring. The internet as thrown a lot of things around and made some major changes in a LOT of industries and I think things will come back into balance.

That's where I DarkBasic really comes into play. It allows someone else to develop all the crap that I wouldn't want to waste my time with, and I can work on the game. I believe that in the next few years we will see tools like DarkBasic, and the other GameStudio type programs become a major Staple in the industry because its reaching a point that the technology moves so fast and gets increasingly difficult to deal with. It becomes more cost effective to "outsource" a lot of the work with the use of these type of tools and other library sources.

Anyways, I'm going to stop typing because I'm thinking that this is getting so long and boring that nobody is going to read this anyways

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
the architect
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 03:56
I believe that dbpro will reduce the programming time allowing riskier ventures to take place. The nice thing about spectrums and BBC's etc was anyone could program them and if if you had a new idea you could make it.

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 04:29
Everyone talks about I.D. and the good old days...but no one ever credits Apogee! Must I remind euch (german for all of you, which we don't have a single word for in english) that I.D. was once a division of Apogee?

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 04:34
well Arch to be honest John Carmack in that lot was just for the kiddies to recongise a name ...
real genius of our time has to be guys like Ian Bell and David Brabham

possibly a bias view on my part, but those guys made the first 3D game and imho the best game ever made... when you can pull so much out of so little power, that is truely something inspiring - and believe it or not it was seemly sinking blow when i applied at Frontier Design to be given the "we're currently not looking for artists in your field" line, that was kinda devastating

personally i miss the old days of games, but then again i love the prospects of the future development... the only think you have to keep in mind is realistically what do you believe you can achieve

another problem i see with people "going" pro as it were, is they learn howto either program, or make a 3dmodel or textures ... they learn all these fancy techniques and think they're the beez kneez, and wonder why when they're in a development house they're never used.
It's because although technically they know what they're doing, realistically they haven't a clue, like modelers who believe that low polygon is something under 3,000 polygons ... i mean i've never heard something so ridiculous in my life - and this is what they teach you at DigiPen.

They don't teach the essentials of balancings and budgeting, howto affect looks and speed of a model by changing texture formats, size and colours. how more than one texture will affect the engine as much as a single texture, etc...
they don't even teach how communication with the engine programmers is ESSENTIAL for top notch effects.

if i have one peice of advice to offer anyone, its is RUN THROUGH YOUR EDUCATION TO A BACHOLARS DEGREE... why? because most other qualifications mean jack all, but more importantly - if a company does think you're good enough, then they'll still think your worth it after you have your degree which you can fall back on.
Might only be a bit of paper, and you might even know everything already ... but that piece of paper is more valueable to a company as it opens so many more doors than skill alone can.

if you do want to go and you can't afford it, there are Education/Student Loans you can take out to help ease the burdon (as long as your sensible with it) so you can have a part-time job and still do uni ... there are also alot of Aprentiship/Intern Schemes around - and some companies will even sponsor your education (provided you keep up good grades)

at the end of the day if your worth alot uneducated, with that peice of paper you will be like Silicon dust in the current Console Rush

oki, i think i'll stop with the advice now - have fun with whatever you do, but if you do wish to go professional for gods sake make sure you understand what your getting into.
Cause i swear next snotty nosed teen i get through my door with a degree believing that he knows it all i'm going to slap so much reality on that boy he'll cry for his mommy

and yeah i know experiences vary from company to company, but when you start out no matter who your with ... the Jnr's usually get alot of the boring yet easy jobs (because you don't want to give them anything too important incase they screw up - i mean it is common sense after all hehee) - so really when you think about it most will start off relatively the same way

hey you wanna know some great news? Sir Manfred, some of you may know - he recently got accepted to be a 3D Artist for a company down in Bristol, UK
which i thinks great news (^_^) and if anyone see's him perhaps some congrats would be in order cause he's been working hard these past few months trying to get a placement somewhere

(finally you notice that most music artists who stay around for more than 5years are those who work hard and struggle for getting there... and this is probably because they've worked so hard at something they'll be damn'd if they're gonna give it up without a fight )

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 04:42
the word your looking for is 'everyone' ... gotta learn adaptive translation

i think you should read up on apogee's history, you might notice something interesting about it
but that aside you never talk about someone by the company they used to be with - you talk about them with thier current company and as only Wolf3D/SoD are officially the Apogee/ID titles and ID are the guys who are commonly mistaken for creating the FPS (they weren't, just the most played)

ack... i've kinda forgotten what my point was now
oh well nm it'll come back to me

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 04:44
I really hope your not referring to me as a snotty nosed teen...lol...you have the teen part right, but trust me, I neither think I know everything about being a profy nor do I actually know everything about it...

...I am trying though ...

HZence
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 04:54
the word your looking for is 'everyone' ... gotta learn adaptive translation

No smarty pants, everyone is not accusative. You could be more American and use the contraction Y'all, which is the closest thing you'll get.

So there



BoB Vila
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 05:02
Apogee was the one that was escaping me. The King of Shareware.

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 05:14
yeah i know HZ... but you all (ya'll) isn't an acusing tone of word, and besides there isn't really any pointing fingers with what you said

you wanted to make the point and it was focused on all... therefore 'everyone'
as i said - you need to learn to be adaptive

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Dave J
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 14:39
"i'm having more fun thinking my way around it because for me the greatest satifaction is to work ages on something which i can't figure out .. and in that moment of the breakthrough when everything falls together - THAT right there is one of the greatest feelings you can imagine.
"


I know that feeling, even if it's not something really big. I remember trying to get a map maker to work in VB years ago. I spent days on it and when I finally got it running I felt like screaming out "I am a god!", although now when I look back at that project everything seemed so simple. It's when you spend lots of time on something and then when you finally get it right, not matter how small or large the project is.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 14:42
The satisfaction of finished a function or bug is nothing compared to the satisfaction of finishing the whole game.

At that pales in to insignificance to the satisfaction you get when the one thing you did it all for occurs: somebody posts on a forum how much they enjoyed playing it.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
Beta1
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 15:09
Ian Bell and David Brabham

thats takes me back. Elite is still the game to judge anything that claims to be open ended against. Its also a masterpiece of programing - to pull it off on a BBC B was a great acheivement.

Everytime I fire up DB that the type of game experience I want to make (and one day will)

Shadow
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Posted: 13th Mar 2003 16:30
"No smarty pants, everyone is not accusative."

???? Since when do we have cases in english?
empty
23
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 13th Mar 2003 17:09
Quote: "
Must I remind euch (german for all of you...)
"

Well actually "euch" does not mean "all of you" but simply you (2nd person plural, accusative). "All of you" would be "euch alle". So in German the sentence would be like "Muss ich euch alle daran erinnern, ..."
Maybe a German forum member can verify this.

Quote: "
P.S. I take it your in the business Raven?
"

That's what he claims, but I don't want to comment that.

Ogres have layers.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Mar 2003 21:09
depends if its formal german or not empty ... in the way he said it i'm sure if i'd put down what he actually ment there would have been an argument about it (kinda like i have a feeling there is going to be)

Pneu - you know perhaps to you finishing a game is like the best thing, but personally i kinda like finishing something which isn't a game - but that i know will be used in many many games
cause its so cool to look at a title and think "Hey without me this wouldn't exsist the way it is"

and Beta Elite's first format was the Acorn Electron - March 1982 ... birth of the 3D Game and yes the truely open ended game

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
empty
23
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Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 13th Mar 2003 23:09
Quote: "
depends if its formal german or not
"

What depends?

Ogres have layers.
HZence
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 00:37
Okay okay, this topic isn't about German now peeps and gimme a break, I'm only almost done with my third year

Ach, I'm working on my first FPS and it's coming well but I've gotten about 3 huge errors so far that I've had to come here for because I haven't know how to fix them myself (i've only been using DBPro for about a week). I feel like I'm being quite the bugger

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 14th Mar 2003 00:45
depends what the errors are
should post up - we really need a 'HHHHHHHHHEEEEELP MEE!' form hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Matto
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 00:54
the architect :~ A little late as far as a responce vs thread additions since your return comment to me but I will reply anyway.., fortunatly I do have a Wife to help with the Children and with her being on maternity leave I am on holiday, working for a living until June, it's easier than looking after my now 2 Sons, but I wouldn't have missed it so far for the world, it has been an eye opener to say the least looking after my first Son for the last 2 years, having 2 to look after wiil be twice the FUN no doubt, and we do have lots of that being nearly 30 myself it's quite funny hearing from someone else of the same age saying things about explaing to their wife why you must go and program something you just thought of right away or for the night as you put it, lol talk about home from home, it's really quite funny to hear that, and the cockles well I'm going to bleep how funny that was.. "****** Hilarious" I think hits it.. hehe, I havn;t quite gotten to the cockles but yes I have done some darn right low work in my time...

Congrats on your HND it's no easy task to go back to college/Uni after a few years out.. I wish I could find the inspiration and right course to get myself something like that to help me further..

To everyone else, sorry but it was one post I had to reply to

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
Dave J
Retired Moderator
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Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 14th Mar 2003 07:13
"The satisfaction of finished a function or bug is nothing compared to the satisfaction of finishing the whole game.

At that pales in to insignificance to the satisfaction you get when the one thing you did it all for occurs: somebody posts on a forum how much they enjoyed playing it.
"


I'm not quite sure about that, there isn't really one actual point where you've finished the game. You'll probably find yourself releasing patches and still working on it after it's been 'finished'. I'd have to agree with the 2nd part though, creating something that people actually like and want to play is a great feeling.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Beta1
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Posted: 14th Mar 2003 11:59
"and Beta Elite's first format was the Acorn Electron - March 1982 ... birth of the 3D Game and yes the truely open ended game"

You sure about that - I was under the impression that the electron was released after the BBC model A as a cheaper machine but with the same operating system and at the same/very similar time to the BBC model B. Certainly software was compatible between the two. The copy of elite I had was BBC B/electron compatible. I still have that old B and a pile of software lying around in the attic somewhere. Those machines are indistructable - I once stuck about 5 times the maximum voltage into the userport of my BBC B (school technology project - slight miscalculation of ohms law) and it just sat there and took it and carried on. Dont think my PC would be so forgivving

Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 14th Mar 2003 12:22
i'd suggest you take your history again...
The BBC Micro Computers and the Acorn Computers are two TOTALLY different companies (not even from the same country)

trust me the BBC Micro and the Acorn Electron are totally different beasties - and was the first to receive Elite (as it was the machine it was programmed on)
took 3months to complete, which for the amount of data and complexity i think is just bloody mind blowing

i have an original release, which won't work on any other machine

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Fluffy Paul
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 14th Mar 2003 13:37
Just a quick pedantic note:

Id isn't I.D. - it's "id", as in the superego. Or that comic strip "The Wizard of Id". Like "did" but without the first "d".

BTW - I had an Acorn Electron and I almost cried when I discovered that my dad had chucked it out when he moved house. I knew I should have taken it with me to uni!
Oh, and the BBC model b and Acorn Electron shared some chips so that the games were often cross-compatible.

If you knew your history - you wouldn't ask just who the hell do I think I am. Or someting.

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé

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