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Newcomers DBPro Corner / New and would like advice on how to begin.

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Paladeus
18
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Joined: 26th Feb 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 26th Feb 2006 23:58
Greetings all.

I just bought DBP (hasn't arrived yet, but I figured I would get this out there now and allow for a few more replies,) and would like to know WHERE I should beginning learning. I have some rudamentary C++ programming and HTML under my belt, obviously nothing to be proud of, and plan on started VERY small. My overall goal is to create an MMORPG (Yes, just like all the other people out there), but I want to create things UP to that point. I want simple games/programs until I get up to a single player RPG or something. I can be happy with that if I can end up creating that after a few months or so (or at the very least, have begun on it.) But I need to learn the basics of this system/program first, along with how to implement them.

I have been looking through the forums and found a bit of fairly useful things. I saved 'em all to my computer (xD) and will probably refer to them quite a bit.

So what I am basically requesting is this:

What should I focus on to begin with so that I can get the hang on DBP,

Without spending MORE, is there anywhere I can find beginning tutorials that are decently in-depth? I tend to want to know what EVERYHTHING does.. once I understand it, I don't need to be told again. xD

And lastly, if I want to end up 3D, would it be better to start in it, or go 2D for now?

Thankies,
Kevin- Paladeus
Gil Galvanti
19
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Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 27th Feb 2006 01:12
Quote: "WHERE I should beginning learning. "

Using the help files in DBP (F1 when in the program), tutorials on here, trying to modify current codes (look at the codebase, just mess around with code, see what it does), and just asking questions on here. This RPG tutorial is really good for beginners
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=64198&b=7
When I started programming, I didn't even know about these forums, I just messed with current code and used the help files. I created about 3-4 little 2D games, then moved onto 3D games right before and when I got DBP.

Quote: "What should I focus on to begin with so that I can get the hang on DBP,"

Well, even though I did 2D first, its not really any easier in my opinion, its just I didn't really realize that DB could do 3D , lol. But you'll need 2D in your programs eventually anyways, so it really doesnt matter, like I said, start with that RPG tutorial it has both 2D and 3D .

Quote: "I tend to want to know what EVERYHTHING does.. once I understand it, I don't need to be told again. xD
"

I don't think you should just jump in and try to find out what EVERY command does, I'm still learning after more than 2 years of using DB. Learn as you go. Even some commands I do know, I never have used, until recently (read float, open to write, etc.).
Quote: "Without spending MORE, is there anywhere I can find beginning tutorials that are decently in-depth?"

Well, theres quite a bit just here on the forum, I don't know of any tutorials that DO cost anything .

Quote: "And lastly, if I want to end up 3D, would it be better to start in it, or go 2D for now?"

Like i said, even if you do do 3D you'll need 2D anyways, but I'd say to learn them at the same time. Experience is the best tool for learning , so just do that tutorial, mod some of it, try out some stuff for yourself, ask questions, and use the DBP help files. Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask anything .

Pirates of Port Royale:
http://www.popr.gwgaming.net (Temporarily Disabled, We Apologize for the Inconvenience)
Live the life.
RUCCUS
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Joined: 11th Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: 27th Feb 2006 01:15 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 01:18
*RUCCUS thanks the game creating gods for sending a good beginner for once*

First off welcome to the community, it sounds like you've got a good idea on what you need to get done before you lunge into something as big as an MMORPG, which is the first step.

Ok as for the question of what to start off with. I think you'll find many people will recommend looking into the tutorials, and in the past few years there have been a lot of them created for doing various things in DBP, each with a different programming level of experience required.

I would suggest to start off in this kind of order;

- DBP will come with a few rudementary tutorials. They aren't the best ones out there to say the least but they do get you to get a basic footing on how DBP works, its interface and some idea on the main structure of programming. If you've worked with C++ and HTML before you'll have a better chance of understanding how things are explained (using variables, getting input from the user, etc.) So, try your best to tackle the couple of tutorials that come with DBP first, but if you cant do get frustrated, there's a lot of people that just skip them.

- Located on the newcommers board (here) there is a stickied post at the top called something like "Tutorial City" or "Tonnes of Tutorials Here". Clicking that link will bring you to a fairly large list of some of the top tutorials for DBP at this current time. I HIGHLY recommend trying out the pong tutorial located on that forum post written by Chris K. It's been a newcommer-starter for learning how to program in DBP for years and will be for years to come. (It does what it says, teaches you how to create a 3D pong tutorial in DBP, excellent tutorial.)

- Theres a very helpful member of the TGC community named TDK. He's written an assortment of tutorials, helpful htins and more for programmers to get to grips with using Dark Basic. The only downside is that his tutorials are for Dark Basic Classic, so some of them may not work with DBP as DBP has a few commands taken out of it that DBC had (replaced with better ones ofcourse). Either way, check out his site at http://www.matedit.com, look into the tutorials and see if they'll help you.

- Going back to the tutorial thread on this board I mentioned before, the other tutorials on that thread are there for a reason. Each tutorial is taylored to a certain type of game genre, I've even heard there's a pretty good tutorial on creating your first FPS on there by someone called RUCCUS...worth a looksy atleast (http://www.ruccus.net/Tutorial.html.

- Almost done. Theres another huge resource of tutorials created by BatVink, another very helpful forum member on TGC. For the paste few years his tutorials have been posted on TGC's monthly newsletter, him releasing one tutorial each month. Every one of TGC's newsletters can be found from the homepage of darkbasicpro.com, not only do they feature one of Vink's excellent tutorials in each issue but also an assortment of programmer tools, new games created with DBC/DBP, info on new releases from TGC, and a lot more. I recommend signing up for the newsletter to be sent via email, very helpful.

- Finally, BatVink has ALSO created a website called Tutorial City (http://members.thegamecreators.com/tutorialcity). The website features some of the tutorials posted in the thread mentioned at the top of this post, and some others written by various forum members.

Reading doesnt usually tickle everyone's fancy, but you'll find a lot of those tutorials are excellently written to not only teach you the most amount of programming concepts in the smallest amount of lines, but also to keep your interest through humorous writing styles and overall fun programming (it'll seem like a lot of reading but once you start each tutorial, you'll usually find you're having so much fun creating your next game that you completely forget the work part).

Keep in mind, you dont have to go through ALL of those tutorials, heck, I doubt anyone has before. Look into their descriptions, choose the ones that interest you or contain some information you think you'll need to learn. Once you have a good understanding of how DBP works, you can move onto making a few of your own games from scratch. A lot of people like to start off by making a few 20-Liners. There's a board on this forum called the 20 Liner Contest (or something like that), that basically challenges you to create a program in 20 lines of code or less. Each month a winner is chosen and their game is posted in the TGC newsletter, its a good way to set some basic goals for yourself and get yourself known on the boards.

Ok, after you've finished a few tuts, conquered a few mini-games of your own, you'll probably want to start making something a little more fun. Another important aspect of programming is the graphics side of things, will you model your own models for your games? I recommend looking into a free modeler to get some practise to see if modeling is your thing, check out http://www.wings3d.com for a pretty good free modeler.

Leading into your own games you'll undoubtedly have a lot of questions/problems. There are loads of places for you to get answers, for one thing DBP comes with a Help File containing all of the commands in DBP and a description of each (though some will admit they could be a lot better). Use these as your first opportunity for finding out how to do something. If the help files aren't helping, check the forums and the code base located on this website. The code base contains a huge amount of programs showing how to accomplish small tasks (things like moving a cube around, checking for collision, creating a clock, etc). When resorting to the forums, PLEASE, make sure you do a search for your problem in the search option at the bottom of every board. Usually its a good idea to search in the newcommers corner as most questions are asked their, if you still dont find an answer, then go ahead and create a post asking for help. Be sure to be nice, use good grammar (programmars are picky when it comes to whom they help and whom they flame), try and give as much detail as possible about the problem, and most importanly post as much source code of what your using as possible. The more code we have to work with, the better the chance we can answer with a good explanation of what went wrong.

... *wipes sweat off head*, I think thats it. You'll find the forums can be a HUGE helper when it comes to programming, especially TGC's. I've been on a lot of programming forums and the TGC forums are without a doubt the most generous, helpful and usually laid back forums I've ever seen.

Goodluck starting with DBP,
- RUC'

Paladeus
18
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Joined: 26th Feb 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 27th Feb 2006 04:09
Thankies to you guys. (Especially for thinking of me as a not so noobish newbie )

A bit of information overload on the last post (xD) but all will come to good use, I am sure. I checked out the tutorials based on RPG developement that you mentioned. I actually copied/pasted onto my computer for offline viewing purposes

I plan on just rummaging through the forums, reading ideas and tips until my order arrives. After that, I will go through the program a bit and see what I can do based on what it gives me and work from there.

A question just to hear what you guys think though... When I make my more advanced programs, be them RPG's or other larger programs, if I made the entire thing modular, would that be more of a hassle over the benefits, or would the benefits (if even possible with this) be worth the hassle? Last bad question until I get stuck or crash horrendously... lol

Kevin- Paladeus
BatVink
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Gods own County, UK
Posted: 27th Feb 2006 16:50 Edited at: 27th Feb 2006 16:52
Tutorial City is a good place to start. Not because I made it ( ) but because it contains links to pretty much every tutorial out there. They are also categorised, by area and skill level.

Tutorial City doesn't house any tutorials, only links to existing ones. It's basically a shortcut to searching all the forums and newsletters for decent material. It's a link to every mind that made the effort and transferred itself into electronic, readable format.

http://members.thegamecreators.com/tutorialcity

Paladeus
18
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Joined: 26th Feb 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 06:32
Thanks BatVink.. and.. nice avatar ^^

I just checked/got the E-mail, my order went through today and, in theory, will be getting it in 2-3 weeks. o.o Meep...

Time to go through the forums with a vengeance. ^^ I will be sifting through the sites and links you guys have offered. Many thanks <hands 3ft wide cookies to the three of you>.

Talk to you guys later.

Kevin- Paladeus

PS::All of my programs will be under the development of "Paladeus Technologies", or "Paladean Technologies". ^^ Can you tell I am obsessed? (xD)
QuothTheRaven
22
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Joined: 2nd Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 28th Feb 2006 20:33
Usually the best way to get anything done in DBP is to take other people's code and edit it. The syntax of the basic language doesn't usually have the same kind of readabliity as C++ or Java, so trying to learn the language from end to end like a typical Java course would teach you isn't always very effective. Chances are what you want to do has already been done before. Most people, especially the younger ones, copy other people's code and try to edit it to their likings.

That's not saying that beautiful originall work has been made. I'm just cynical.

Paladeus
18
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 06:17
<sqwacks> NEVERMORE!

lol, I like the name Quoth

The only thing I don't like about the idea of pilfering code, and then altering it, is that it isn't MINE. I feel like I am not learning if I just snatch and change. I taught myself the basics of C++.. well.. up to the point I got figety about trying to display a graphic >.> I never could figure that out <grml>.

If DBP would stop taking its sweet time, I would do basically, whatever was needed to get started .. aside from pilfer. Except maybe just to see it work as soon as I got it..

I am getting restless waiting for the spoils of war.. >.>

Kevin- Paladeus
Tinkergirl
21
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Joined: 1st Jul 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 17:44
It's a shame you didn't go for the downloadable version - nice and quick that.

In the meantime, if you're desperate to get your feet wet, download the demo (which unfortunately, is non-updated) which will let you try some of the older tutorials at least. (There are some commands that are changed/added in later updates, you see.)

As for modularity - you'll find some functions will serve you well no matter what your game - a 'get next free object/image' function, a good proportionalised sprite font printer, and some text file parsing will save you time and time again on your projects.

However, the majority of your code will have to change every project - but every time it'll be quicker to write.

(For an example of a well documented 2d rpg check out Templar Quest in the WIP board - even if I do say so myself. It's not finished yet, but you can check back to earlier versions to see how it's progressed.)
SimSmall
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Joined: 7th Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 18:55
Quote: "download the demo (which unfortunately, is non-updated)"


That makes it sound like the boxed version is updated. I bought a boxed copy in December - Version 5.5

Have I been short-changed?
Tinkergirl
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 19:41
If we're still talking about DBPro, then you should see about upgrading your version (as in, downloading the 'patches') to get yourself to at least 5.8, probably 5.9 - or you could try the 6.0 beta.

When 6.0 comes out properly (as in, final release 6.0) then it'll probably be advised that everyone upgrade.
Grog Grueslayer
Valued Member
19
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Joined: 30th May 2005
Playing: Green Hell
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 20:09
Quote: "Usually the best way to get anything done in DBP is to take other people's code and edit it. "


Woah woah woah... doing it from scrach is much better. That way you know what you've done and you don't have to deal with other peoples bugs... just your own.


Heckno
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Location: Palm Coast, FL
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 01:25
^^ me'sa agree with that.. But don't think that taking opc and breaking it down to understand the syntax behind it is wrong, it's actually a great learning resource for beginners like myself....

Good Luck and hope to see your stuff in the WIP soon.....
Paladeus
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 06:11
Interesting reads all.

As for downloading ANYTHING, I am on Dial-up <shudders horribly>. Otherwise, I would have downloaded the trial version long ago If I can snag a radio tower for wireless internet (I live in the boonies, no cable/DSL and I am to cheap to pay $500 for the only satellite internet service for the area) I will download it / other things. But for now.. It takes me WAY to long for downloading anything <grml>.

I will look at others' coding.. but to be honest, I would ask myself "Okay.. why is that there" or "What does that do.." Some things are very similar to C++ (like the debate on floats vs. integer on the RPG creation tutorial in a previous post by "Gil Galvanti") and I think I will be able to pick that type of stuff up, but other things.. I would have to try to understand it, and play with it to see what happens if I take certain things out/change them with different symbols or put them in different places. Which takes quite a bit of time o.o But I will probably end up doing it anyway, lol.

I trully appreciate all of your ideas and help guys. It will all come to good use. And I promise, I will make something special for ya guys . Once I get into it, I will either, start posting on my own website and give out the link, or find someone willing to host and show you my goodies ^^ Eh.. I want to leave that 'cause I find it funny.. but when checking over my post.. I feel I should rephrase.. so.. "I will show you what I learn..." instead.. o.O

Kevin- Paladeus
BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 14:00
Quote: "Usually the best way to get anything done in DBP is to take other people's code and edit it"


I would disagree too. There's nothing harder than debugging somebody else's code or modifying it. See how something is acheived - yes. Then write it yourself in your own style.

Paladeus
18
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 4th Mar 2006 06:07
Okie-dokie.

I took your advice TinkerGirl, and downloaded the 30-day trial version of DB. I have been going through as much of the tutorials as I could (which was all of them ), and I am going to have a LITTLE difficulty. I am finding myself wanting to use C++ syntax and such, and it isn't working as one would hope, lol.

I am trying to figure out some of the commands and syntax to this friggin' thing, but the tutorials with the trial version aren't as well-documented as I would like. Oh.. there is complete code, but it doesn't explain everything >.> I am definitely going to find myself using more tutorials than what will come with DBP. And.. as a side note.. Ruccus, your website has a lot that isn't up and running as of yet. I like the layout though.

Well, now that I have the trial version (and it should expire about the same time my true version should be arriving,) I will be trying out some basic programs. I think I am going to try the following on my own before even thinking about help (at least I hope so ):

Standard to Metric Converter (Well, the U.S. is only 1 of TWO countries in the world to use the so called "standard system".. >.>
Dog/Cat age converter (My second C++ program.. nostalgia you see.)
Some form of list program (ex: I have a LOT of Anime. Something I could create a list of and then write to a file and then read from perhaps? Maybe this will be something I make when I go graphical.. or upgrade to it.)
PONG! I saw something over a pong tutorial. I likey games ^^

I haven't really gotten many other ideas for basic start-up programs. I will need to think of something, obviously, but those should start for now I think.. and the boxed version of DBP may have something for ideas.

Let me know what you guys think? I would be more than happy to get ideas for newb programs.

Also, I have taken a look at code snippets and other source. I couldn't really follow much of it yet, probably due to not having done much and not understanding the syntax and such. But maybe later I will be able to find something that helps out.

There are several things so far that I know I am going to have trouble with, but I am hoping to find tutorials for them, but I MAY end up coming and asking noob questions >.< (the stupid kind, not the new programmer kind.) I apologize in advance if/when it happens

Whelp, that is all for now.. I will be checking my post about every day (I will be playing with my trial version each day and may need to search the forums >.>,) and will be looking forward to any/all help/suggestions.

Kevin- Paladeus
Paladeus
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 4th Mar 2006 06:22
Aha.. one more program idea

My 4th C++ program was a random number generator for multiple sided dice (4, 6, 12, 20, etc) for D&D lol. It wasn't odd when I thought it up the first time.. I would have just updated my previous post, but they still review them before they show up >.<
Paladeus
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Posted: 5th Mar 2006 05:24
MWA HA HA! 5 days later I have obtained the spoils of war!!

Luckily, I didn't have nearly the same amount of trouble in activating as others seemed to have. See you guys later.

PS::The official looks SO much better than that trail thing.. SO much PURDIER.

Kevin- Paladeus
Paladeus
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 5th Mar 2006 21:46
Alrighty, here is the code for my first program. I went ahead and did my Pet Age Converter. VERY simple, yes, but something to start off with where I couldn't mess up much



I was going to work with text colours, but decided against it for now.

I will work on my if/then statements, loopings, and multiple choice on my next program. I am going to make a "Standard to Metric Converter" (I need one anyway, lol)

I think I did more reading than necassary for this one though o.O lol

Kevin- Paladeus

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