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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / DarkBASIC Pro: The +s and the -s

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HZence
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 02:56
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I've previously noted many comments people have made about what they do or do not like about DarkBASIC Professional in multiple threads, so I figured I'd start a thread to see people's overall views.

Keep in mind DBPro is only in it's infancy stages, so don't post bugs that should be fixed in patches - rather post solid things that you think could be improved in future developments.

Personally, the one thing that gets me is having to have the CD in when you run it...but hey, that's just me...

Let's hear what ya got!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 03:04
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There is a dongle for it right? i think they did that with the cd thingy to make more money

xxxpetratxxx
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Kanzure
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 03:08
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I don't need the CD for DB Pro! O_o! Weird.

~Morph
Owner of MultiCode.NET and Multi2k.NET.
Nothing is something, and something is then nothing. Life is an illusion.
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andrew11
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 03:15
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You only have to insert the CD every 100 or so compilations if you do full installation. You can buy a dongle to put in so you don't have to wait for it to load. I think they did that to make more money too.

"All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors."
-Anon.
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HZence
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 08:07
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"There is a dongle for it right? i think they did that with the cd thingy to make more money"

Exactly! And I hate that fact. It's not like we can't see right through there money-making scheme Lol...

And I do have to insert the CD every time I run DBPro

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 08:15
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its not a money making scheme... the dongle was never developed with home use in mind!
it was designed to allow Educational Institutes (Secondary/High Schools, Colleges, Universities) just purchase a single copy of DarkBasic Pro which uses the Dongle as protection and then purchase as many dongles as machines they have.

personally i feel like getting the dongle as i have 8 machines and it would be easier than carrying around a CD everywhere, especially for my notebook.

that aside we all know howto alter our registration files to make sure it doesn't always check (if ever) for the CD, and even Lee explained how once...
there is no money making involved here, its all about protecting themselves from piracy - however as it is pissing off the users they've thrown caution to the wind with that and explain to us howto change this.

Personally i hope the next release has a different form of protection - preferablly something like Microsoft Authentication, and anyone who goes off on "oh it can be hacked" - just keep your comments to yourself, its still the best protection there is available right now.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 12:56
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"Personally i hope the next release has a different form of protection - preferablly something like Microsoft Authentication"

NO WAY! - I am not letting DBP access the internet to authenticate itself. I own Office XP legally (Students Edition) but I used the crack purely on the principle that I don't want Office accessing the net.

I vote for a DBUID system on the Patches.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 15:16
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sorry but thats the way alot of authentication system are going now - and personally i'm all for it...

Why exactly did you crack it anyway? There is a FreePhone number when you authenticate it - you call it, tell them the 20 alpha-numeric code, they give you back a 20 alpha-numeric code... 5minutes and your good to go.
Plus the added bonus that its, oh oh whats the word i'm looking for ... oh yeah LEGAL!

if you think that we should impliment a system similar to the BUID then your even more dilluded than i thought, perhaps if you spent some time finding out why exactly the Microsoft Authentication system is the best there is, perhaps you'd understand why i'd want DBS to use it.

and don't say 'if its so good why is was it hacked so quickly' ... because if you read up about it you'd know

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 15:22
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"Exactly! And I hate that fact. It's not like we can't see right through there money-making scheme"

Actually I'd say you haven't a clue, but hey Ravens already explained so I won't waste my time again.

"I vote for a DBUID system on the Patches."

No, a DBUID system is impossible to implement with our current set-up of publishers and distributors - it might work for Blitz because they don't have a tenth of the distribution channels we do, but it won't work for us. This will not be introduced. And besides, it's not like it can't be hacked anyway! NOTHING is hack-proof.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 15:42
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you should put that in a text file Rich, so whenever someone says it you just copy&paste would save alot of typing time hehee

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 16:37
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"NOTHING is hack-proof."

Gasp! - A webmaster prepared to admit the fallibility of anti-piracy measures - has the apolcalypse come or something?

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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BoB Vila
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 16:42
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I could make it hack proof, but I'd have to charge you for it.

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 17:08
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the only way to make something hack proof is not to code it, because you give the little buggers enough time - they can crack walnuts with thier code and work arounds

but for all intensive purpose though certain anti-piracy methods are just outstandingly good ... Mircosofts, whether you want to admit it or not - is THE best one the market.
the whole point of an antipiracy program is to make it so hard for a hacker to get into it to alter what they need to - that they give up and don't bother, and when the programs arn't worth squat on the global market - which no offense ment to DBS but they're hardly a multi-million dollar company with people needing to crack themselves into the programming scene ... which would mean with that level of protection, no one would even care to try to hack it

and the roles of the Anti-Piracy measure would be complete

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 17:57
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"but for all intensive purpose though certain anti-piracy methods are just outstandingly good ... Mircosofts, whether you want to admit it or not - is THE best one the market."

I disagree with that and I am not covering up. Whatever you might say about MS, the simple fact is that 20% of users PCs are probably running pirate copies of XP - why argue about how good the security is if you can get working versions freely available off Kazaa.

A WORKING CRACK for Office was available before it's release. It works flawlessly and takes 2 seconds to apply - some "protection".

It doesn't actually "crack" it properly at all - but it achieves the desired effect. The WindowsXP crack is also a cheap hack - but it works.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 18:01
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"... which would mean with that level of protection, no one would even care to try to hack it"

Not necessarily, even small time apps will get hacked. However, if this is the case, then all that will happen is that people would try and hack the demo (an easier option) to disable the splash screen using the retail patches.

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HZence
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 19:24
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"Actually I'd say you haven't a clue, but hey Ravens already explained so I won't waste my time again."

Sorry...I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 20:22
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"product high quality programs"

I used to think that... but after using XP I disagree. The shell is slow, Office is bloated and aaggg! - Thus I now use OpenOffice and KHTML as my normal apps.

The only way to make anti-piracy measures REALLY secure is via the hardware - ie. Palladium. However I dislike the thought of having to buy hardware which has the ability to restrict me.

"it is the best protection available ... could it have been hacked without the source? probably, given ALOT of time. but the point is even working from the source it still took the hackers 5months to develop something 'workable' and it hasn't really been approved upon since."

The OfficeXP crack isn't exactly complex - all it does is disable a few windows (ie. it just removes all files related to product activation) and hack a few other files.

If the source code really was leaked... then why did I never see ANY stories about it, on CNN / Slashdot / Wininformant / TechNet or anywhere else?

"i'm damn'd glad that mete got himself a better anti-piracy program ... because people do these simple hacks - and wonder why in 30days the program STILL locks down. It's because the hack doesn't work!"

I wasn't even aware that there was even a fake hack for MilkShape - MilkShape has the ultimate anti-piracy system though - A cheap price tag & Regular updates.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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HZence
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Posted: 15th Mar 2003 21:00
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Anywho, a definite plus of DBPro is quite obvious: it's easy to use! I think we all take that for granted when we complain that you can't do this or that and bug the team about releasing the next thousand patches to enable such things, things that we want.

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the architect
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 01:18
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Two personalities at loggerheads here.

Just for reference who should we deem as the baddy. I think its Rob K cause of the sinister eye!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 09:49
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i've never found WindowsXP as slow and ya'll have bitched about - infact for what it is, its bloody fast.
But then again maybe in 32bit mode it is a slower ... but considering i'm running this ins 64bit mode on a processor which doesn't have the x86-64 extensions, i don't see how that'd make a grand difference.

Office is very simplist and quick ... if yours isn't then register the bastard legally!
infact ALOT of those who i hear bitching about the OSs the most are those who don't seem to care about piracy and appear to be actively supporting it - like you here, perhaps you did pay for your Office ... but your still using the crack, and therefor supporting its use.

if you didn't see anything about the Windows Source leak then you must've had you eyes closed for a bloody year - and you probably don't even know the outcome of the US vs Microsoft Monopoly trial was!

Because the news was everywhere as it was leaked when Mircsoft's trial was just ending on about thier Sun Proprioties... and couldn't have come at a worse time for them because they were loosing millions due to the trial!

and you know what Milshape is one of THE most hacked products on the net behind Mircosoft and 3DStudio Max ...
price and support have nothing to do with if a product is hacked, it the pure hype of the program which causes it.
However i can tell you now, any version of Milkshape above 1.4.9 has never been sucessfully hacked, because of the way the Anti-Piracy has been implimented!!

agghh this whole chat is really begining to piss me off, damn'd piracy bastards people like that who are literally taking the cash out of my pocket every month - i'm bloody sick an tired of it.

why the hell should i pay double the price of Max4 for Max5 because so many asshole can't be fucking bothered to pay the real price or just leave it alone ... BUT NO they have to hack the fucking thing, steal it, and then give Discreet the perfect excuse to ripp everyone off

i don't know why the whole fucking world doesn't just grow up, if you can't aford something then you don't use it.

i can't afford a new Porsche 968 Carrer4, you don'y see me putting a brick through the nearest dealership and breaking into it and making off with the fucker do you??

ya'll are making me sick

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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DARKGirl
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 10:41
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I could not have said it better myself...good show Raven!

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
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indi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 15:17
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if u continue to swear raven, your going to leave me no recourse

Its a form of abuse and is not tolerated here.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 15:48
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"... if yours isn't then register the bastard legally!"

I do have Office XP legally - do you want a scanned image of the CD or something to proove it?

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 15:50
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"f**ing"

You know, winding Raven up is endlessly entertaining - he must be even funnier in real life.

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The Game
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 17:21
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"However i can tell you now, any version of Milkshape above 1.4.9 has never been sucessfully hacked, because of the way the Anti-Piracy has been implimented!!"

I'd have to diasgree about that Raven.

I am the game and I want to play.
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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 17:47
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"I'd have to diasgree about that Raven."

I have to say that I am inclined to agree with Raven. There have been a lot of cracks for MS above version 1.4.9, but from what I read on their forums, none of them work.

I also compared the user / key Mete sent me with the keygen's results - The keygen gave a completely different key.

I would be really interested to know how the anti-piracy system works in MilkShape - as it is one of the most well known uncracked apps out there. It obviously has something to do with the 2 minute delay between registering and the app activating.

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The Game
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 18:06
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poor misguided Rob K...There's a working one out there...I have seen it for myself....no software is hack proof

I am the game and I want to play.
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Rob K
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 21:24
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"...I have seen it for myself"

What version are you talking about? - I haven't seen any WORKING for MS3D 1.6.4 (there are a few for MS3D 1.5.9 I believe).

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The Game
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 21:38
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There is one that works with MS3D 1.6.5

I am the game and I want to play.
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HZence
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 22:56
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I don't think I can stress enough how sorry I am to Rich and the DBPro team for my comments about the "Money-Making scheme" thing. I really am sorry about that

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 02:33
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The Game there are none that work... that either myself or Mete know of - consider we both scan the net quite oftenly to find these, all attempted crack programs work uptil the 30-Days trail end.

if there is one out there which does work then i'd like the link so that both myself and mete can try it and put a stop to it - but i somehow doubt there is one.

and i'm not as 'entertaining' in real life cause i'd of just hit someone like you hours ago and be done with it.
besides i never said you had an illegal copy on CD ... what i'm saying is you've used a crack and made it an illegal copy.

whether you pay for the software or not, you're still financing and actively supporting the piracy networks by using their crack software ... this means they know that people are using them and will produce more.
and if you want it to work 100% like it should, then you should NEVER use a hacked version of a product ... because they bypass a few essential things oftenly as shortcuts which means they suffer from
a) instabilities
b) speed loss
c) upgrading problems

which is VERY apparent in Microsoft products, because i've seen too many copies of software which have been cracked and are no longer recognised and run buggy. Office is one of the worst offenders available.

plus the added dangers that MANY patches are coded with Trojans and other crap in them - which mean that your system is wide open to be attacked by these same guys!
And somehow i don't think they'll be kind simply because you've used thier crack.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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The Game
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 03:07
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Raven...I am e-mailing you the link to the working keygen for it for confirmation that it does work...I think you will find that I have just proved you wrong

I am the game and I want to play.
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HZence
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Posted: 17th Mar 2003 04:29
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Raven, please, I really don't feel there's a need to present all our thoughts and comments as though their coming from a bunch of total morons. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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