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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Jogging and Falling

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SpyDaniel
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 21:41
Have you noticed, that most of the time characters you place in your maps, jog on the spot when they spot you. They also fall into the walls and start jumping on their arse. Little AI bugs or errors that can soil the game.

I didnt post this in bugs because I want people to talk more about it here, then we can post a bug report when we have more issues.
uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 21:57
All of those things have been well known to TGC and reported long time back.

Some relate to physics others relate to a combination of things including it seems some incompatibility between the models and or the various script files asscociated with them.

The state and condition of actual models the AI and addition of physics to the engine between EA and V1 resulted in some of these erratic behaviours creeping in to V1 im afraid and the current behaviours are a somewhat retrograde step in some areas at least. There are some improved and good points too however.

TGC are aware of the issues here though of course I am sure they would welcome any further input you can make.

With some effort you may be able to overide some of these problems just by adjusting physics or other settings and changing AI scripts - though you should not have too and these things should not really happen with default click and play engine objects.

ultraplex
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Dec 2005
Location: cyberspace
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 22:03
yeah its 118 bug (as in one,one,eight)

Never eat yellow snow
uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 22:07
is that for real? In a list you mean?

well i'm gald its listed somewhere as I know its been discussed in the past but dont know if anyones actually paid any attention and recorded it somewhere for possible future TGC attention.

Glad to know its recorded somewhere even if i dont know where

KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 22:17
I set up a single room once, then shot at a character. He jumped right through the window, and plummeted to his death. The other guy ran right out the door. I thought it was pretty funny. Apparently suicide is in the scripting

-Keith

uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 1st Mar 2006 22:41
Ah! they do that in space levels.

I had a level I made in EA and even then I had a floating space building and put windows it with breakable glass - the enemies had coward scripts on them so that when the player entered the room the first thing they would do was turn around and try to run away - useually straight through the glass - out of the windows till they all fell to their death.

Fun but needless to say I had to change their scripts - unfortuneately they dont know what either sapce or a window is.

SpyDaniel
18
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 00:32
I think ultraplex is refering to the new operator number, 118, its a UK number.

uman, have you ever tried giving some characters way points, and see if they act the same. Because I made a small map, with a character walking around outside. When I shot him, he did his crouch move. But he never got near the wall. Maybe you could test this for me, because my trail is nearly over. Ill have to wait a whole 10-14 days before I get my full version.
uman
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 02:03 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2006 02:09
I dont get any special problems any longer with enemies - that was a long time ago.

In all honesty I have still after all the time I have been working with FPSC not gotten around to testing out enemies and their AI etensively so I really cant advise any users a great deal on problems they may face.

The only enemies I have currently functioning work well for their situation in gameplay. I do know in the first instance some of the AI script files dont work well with the enemies as they behave as if they cant see the player and for some strange reason one of the first animations the AI script files call when they detect the player is - reload - by which time they have done so they are usually dead - killed by the player.

Personally I currently use the Cautious and Strafe AI scripts on some enemies in combination which seem to work fairly well and also one of the "Hang about and then attack the player combinations" which move the enemies towards the player on sight and when within range calls the shoot/straffe animations if the player moves away the AI calls the follow command and the enemy follows the player endlessly until he calls the attack routine again when withing range. This also works well and is a good combination, although I have edited the default scripts a little to improve them

If you open up the various AI scripts and look see the description of what they do then you should be able to use one suitable one in Main and one in the Shoot properties of the enemy. Using two differeing behaviours - mixing and matching until you find a good combo you should get a result even with the default scripts.

Some things to remember are that you can affect the way enemies behaviour considerably with a little simple adjustment to their properties in editor by changing field of view and so on. Dont be afraid to experiment with the settings - if it worries you make a copy of the settings by writing them down on paper or take a screen grab as I do, then if things go wrong - put the settings back as they were.

You can aslo quite easily improve their behaviour in script by simple changes to their attack ranges and so forth. If you cahnge any scripts make sure you back them up first so you can easily to back to the defaults if need be.

One more important thing - most enemy entities will have physics applied by default - if these are necessary and some times they are as in certain circumstances for unknown reasons with physics off entities dissapear from the level - the same entity placed at another location or level height will behave in the reverse manner - FPSC strangeness again Im afraid. The point being if physics have to be on set the weight and friction to 500 for each or the emnemies wont be able to move around properly or even at all. Which is why some users cant get them to move. If poosible turn enemies physics off completely as as a general rule they are not needed.

Waypoints wont or should not affect the enemies behaviours - the reasons for poor behaviour lie largely elsewhere. Dont attach enemies to paths unless absolutely necessary for your game design which in many case it may well might be.

Eventually users who get to be experienced with FPSC will be able to control enemies movement along waypoints and their behaviours at the various point locations or in relation to player proximity and so on. Its a fairly arduous and frustrating task and has to be set up individually for each individual gameplay scenario where the player encounters an enemy but the result in apparent enemies quality of AI can make it a worthwhile excerscise as it gives some futher means of control to what the enemy does and when it does it. Left to their own devices they become a little confused sometimes and appear to be a little thick to say the least, paticularly when it comes to obstacle avoidance which is relatively non existant in FPSC enemies.

A note on waypoints - unfortunately they and other FPSC entities such as trigger zones can become more than a bit of a pain - as placing a number of them one above the other at different FPSC level height locations enemies or other entities get confused as to which level the path they should follow is on and with numerous enemies on paths it could get to be a mess. As said this also happens with other entities in regard to the player too so if you place a trigger zone or player checkpoint in a room in one level and go upstairs the player can trigger the zone or player checkpoint from the room above. Quite a serious problem really which could do with some attention from TGC. Editing or writing special scripts for some things may overcome this by reducing distances on trigger proximities.

Most other silly behaviours are down to bugs or errors in the script files linked to enemy animations or other unknown reasons. Usually if you keep trying you can overcome some of the silly ones. Effort will be rewarded - except for anything thats well known as an issue with them most erronous behaviours are down to users needing to make some adjustments. The real bugs if any that exist with enemies the user can have no control over.

SpyDaniel
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Mar 2006 14:11
Couldnt you stop these trigger/check point and waypoint errors/bugs by making the room 2 segments higher?

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