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Why should you be able to have 50 levels in your game, if you cant save or load your progress. So Iam asking, how have you all pulled off your games so far?

becasue if the limit was 10, people would complain. hell, people even complain about 50



my game? well, its coming along...lets just say that "6" in my sig needs to be an "8"

Iam going to give it a go at building my game with 3dmax. I wonder if I can pull that off. When I say 'my game' I dont really have a game to make .

Quite 50 levels is not enough. Some users may want more than that others not - the point being imposed limits and resrictions abound in FPSC and they are not in any way condusive to being helpful to gamemakers who require the choice to design their games as required to meet with its overall objectives.

Hell there was an imposed map object limit in FPSC EA and you would still possibly still have that now if I had not asked Lee to remove it and he kindly did so as I had run out of the capability to add objects to a level having exceeded the limit way back in EA.

Now I have come up againt the .fpi script limit of 200 and am running out of AI capability for adding new entities which will increase entity behaviours and add extensively to the interest, fun and flexibility of end user gameplay. After asking - thank god Lee has also confirmed that this limit will also be removed - its only common sense and it will, as far as I can tell have no adverse influence on games made with FPSC but will cerainly to a great deal to advance the product so that users who wish to can make more interesting and varied gameplay content and scenarious relating to game entities behaviour and interactive gameplay.

It can do nothing but good for the standing and reputation of the product and the games made with it - wherever restrictions that stiffle creative gamemaking are removed.

Its hard enough to make good games with FPSC as it - limits and restrictions - we dont need them.

Let the user have the choice - the engine itself will then dictate what you can and cant do without the need for anyone to purposfully impose limits uneccesarily.

I like your long posts uman, gives me some thing to read.

But what I had ment to say, was why have 50 levels when you cant save the game? What if some one makes a game that needs time to complete. They cant save, and then have to start again. It would get annoying for the players.

But, would you know if save/load will be in any updates for fpsc, because you know the guys at tgc.

unfinished options, people just keep whining that they were taking 2 much time to release FPSC.... so they kinda released it.... unfisnished....

you can start work on your game, but you will have to put it on hold until a save load feature comes along.

i have a main project im working on, but i have a couple 2 level projects i do just to learn more about what i can do with the fpsc.

this is in no way a perfect engine,but any engine you use for the price we are talking about has limitations.

i have played around with a couple other engines and this is by far my favorite for what im trying to do.

you cannot and will not make a half life 2 or doom3 game with any engine out there for the price we are talking.

and we have to unfortunately wait for that save load feature to finish anything more than a few levels.

i do believe it will show up in some form or another.

thanks

hammer

even though ther isnt load/save, then cant you just make checkpoints and give the player sabout 10 lives, beacause the way i see it, it restarts the Lvl when you die (Correct me if im wrong,)
P.s im Not entirely shure

You are correct, it does.

Yeah, but who wants to play throguh 50 levels in one sitting?

Thanks uman,
I wasn't around for EA, but I would have agreed with you then and joined you in that quest.
No limit on the scripts. Letting the engine dictate the limits is a wise choice.



SarusX, you know they intended to have a save feature.
Had it been included, then 50 levels would rock!
Yes, I guess I will push the envelope when V2 comes out. (use all 50)

I think everyone should focus on developing their models and scripts right now though.
All of those things should be the same, regardless of the engine changes proposed.
I plan on having at least two versions for every game I make, until V2 is released.
One version with limited levels due to the no save, and a Second version with the full whistles later.
I can still get all the bugs out of my scripts while I am waiting, and I can still create all of the levels.
Good luck everyone, because the 50 level thing will be a gem.
But, that's only my opinion.

Higgins,

Yes I fully understood the reasoning as to what you meant.

Why have 50 levels? - well beacuse some users may be hard working enough to build them.

The Save/Load issue is really entirely a seperate issue and when it comes to being a reality well then we will be gald we have the 50 levels (or more) and if it dont then anyone who makes a 50 level game with FPSC will deserve to have the end player keep their computer switched on long enough to complete the game out of respect for their endeavour. Seriously if I had a 50 game level to play and it was good enough then thats what I would do if I had to - no other option really is there unless we get that Save/Load.

The only thing that could even make the situation worse would be if someone made a 50 level game in which it was so hard you kept dieing all the time - then you would be a bit miffed as you would have a real hard time completing it.

And by the way I dont anyone at TGC in any way differently to any other user here and I have no idea what any upgrade will include either the forthcoming one nor any future update. Nor do I know whether Save/Load is being or will ever be considered for inclusion to FPSC. Well it was on a beta list as I put it there but it was classed as low priority at the time in preference to show stopping bugs which need to be fixed first before the V1 release. It just makes sense to me that it may be included in some future release because TGC officials being reasonable and sensible people can understand at this stage why so many users see it a something of a priority.

However I am not so sure that Save/Load or any of the other important well know and documented feature or improvement requests made by users are anything like as easy to incorporate as users might think - so I am not sure you will ever see any of them.

Culling and fps and gameplay speeds is one of those that comes largely to mind which apparently (culling at least) nothing will be done about. I presume if it could have been incorporated or could be now without too much difficulty it would be done - but its not that easy I suspect without a complete or substantial re write of the engine and perhaps we are unlikely to get that - anytime in the forseeable future at least.

But what do I know - perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised when any upgrade comes or perhaps if ever any V2 is envisaged.

As always dont expect too much and you wont be dissapointed.

If you are like me however you will do the opposite and have to live with that dissapointment and just keep doing the best you can with whatever you have.

50 Level Ability ...Is this a save/load gripe in disguise?

To not include a save feature in an update soon would be insanity in my thoughts.
As uman mentioned, the demand is too great to ignore.

Whatever it takes, it would be more than worth it for the long term success of FPSC.
But I am not them, and they are not me.
So, as uman also pointed out, only time will tell.


Ditto
And what we have is great!

EDIT
Here's a thought.
Cut the 50 levels into 5 Games with 10 levels each. (or 10 games of 5 levels each)
When you complete one game, it displays the key to unlock the next one. (password protected zip)
Am I just thinking of this or did someone else suggest it earlier?(it's rough getting old)
Anyway, this method could allow for infinite levels, because you could keep unlocking as many as you want.
The users don't have to play a lot of levels each sitting. Think of 30 sets of 5 levels each. (or as many as you want)

That's right kids... my Sci-Fi series can boast that it is a 1000+ level game with this engine!
That is, when I am finished mapping the levels. (that's not infinite)

the whole reason behind a script limit is simple.

when you make an array, you have to specify a quantity, so lee had to put a number there.

the script limit is as simple as changing 200 to 2000, but it just has to be a number.

uman, didnt lee send you an email about that?

My sci-fi game will have 30 levels but each 5 or 6 levels will be built as a single EXE so that the player can open up and play whatever "campaign" they want. And with only 5 or 6 levels per campaign, you can afford to play it one sitting.

Thats the way i get around not being able to select a level for the main menu and not having save/load game functions,
AE

Most people love the abiloty for 50 level's as you could basicly make 50 very diffrent level's from playable cutscene only level's (Think the marines been slaughtered scene's in D3) to full blown boss only level's and so on. The ability of Save/Load does affect it of cause, no one deny's that but with the number of workaround's such as AE's Campaing/Chapter idea and CE's locked zip's. One feature (Off Topic I know) that I would like to see is file manipulation. It would allow us so much more option's if coupled with some new onkey script command's. (A full blown option's menu for example) or the ability to create expansion's that only work if youve completed the original game.

Anyway Im trailing off topic so Ill jump back on. I think 50 level's is fine, if Lee or us for that matter, see a need for more we can alway's ask for it and we might just get what we ask for.

Tal

I do like having 50 levels, but I dont like the fact we dont have save/load. It would be a lot better with save/load, then we can fully use all 50 levels, without having to use third party ideas.

Bullshox, arrays 201, the expanding array:

Today class, we will cover a marvalous factor of programming, the expanding array. This may already be incorporated into your language of choice, or you may have to build it. In this session, we will cover building one from scratch.

Now, before we begin programming, lets cover the uses of an expanding array. The expaning array is primarly used in the loading of the program, or the insertion of data, rarely, if ever, is it used while the program is actually running, this is because the expanding array uses valuable time to add on an aditional value.


Now, a higly simplified version of an expanding array (note: some dbp commands may be inaccurate)

First, creation of an array.

DIM Arr(1)

Next, insertion of data
function insert(value)
DIM ArrHold(length(Arr)+1)
for x=1 to length(Arr)
ArrHold(x)=Arr(x)
next x
ArrHold(length(Arr)+1)=value
UNDIM Arr(0)
DIM Arr(length(ArrHold))
for x=1 to length(Arr)
Arr(x)=ArrHold(x)
next x
endfunction


This has been a Merra Tutoring Session

i think lee got lazy, because theres definatly a 200 there...

And you know what Uman said Lee said?

Replace these lines, now it should propperly expand.

I think lee is lazy too.

I can't imagine needing more than 200 scripts anyway.
A lot of entities and a lot of levels will use the same ones.
It's not like every entitiy has to have a unique script.
They can share.
And, with the activated states, each script can do a number of different functions.
This too enables each script to serve multiple masters.
Really one script can do 100 things for 100 different entities while all of them appear to be using different scripts.
Creating scripts like this would allow for 20,000 unique AIs with those 200 scripts.
Think about it.

Edit
Too often everyone focuses on what they think the engine can't do, instead of utilizing what it can do.


                                       

Conjured... the more complex a script, the longer it takes to execute and run. I don't fully understand what the hell that script engine does. I personally want to replace it with something sensible. But I would say that it probally does run though the entire script.

I can imagine having over 200 scripts. And not just AI.
FPSC is very ugly when it comes to helping us... Luckly, I happen to be very good at figuring out how to force it down it's throat. Counters are script wasters, you can't have more then 1 counter in a counter because it uses the activated field to incriment the counter. Yeah, lots of words...

I have several heals which heal over time... so your health incriments instead of crappy jumps.

I have, however, almost perfected a lovely script which I call DoorRKN (Remote Key Natural) which can act as any of those. Problems include the fact that I needed to make a SwitchN because the door will crash if it is opened twice. SwitchN's will activate the door, and get this... the door will activate the switchs! So multiple switches per door! Yet the script delay is annoying...

When I finally understand where the delay comesfrom, I will add in a script command that can change it. sync=ms (miliseconds).






I even have this... not sure what was wrong with it, but it is SwitchRKN, a major replacement of the standard switch. RKN (Remote Key Natural) does NOT do it says... problem is I haven't reprogramed it for the Remote part, and I there was an issue with the key part... but it is suppose be a switch that can be turned on remotely, with a key, or naturally (Remotely meaning another switch will allow you to press that switch).

So conjured, there can be hundreds of scripts you use... and I discovered the worst comes from CutScenes (engine rendered) in particular... after managing 15 scripts trying to get these guys to do what I wanted. I scrapted the whole thing as being excessive... mabey one day I'll start up a program to make the cutscenes...

I'm just guessing but couldn't you just take all of this and use it in DB(P)? DB is able to save/load games and edit all this... right? Hell, I might get DB cause of that...

BULLSHOCK 2



Lee has confirmed that the script limit will be removed completely and quite rightly so. Effectively the arrays will be expanded to accommodate 2000 intially - and furthermore that will be upwardly self expanding.

Conjured Entertainment,

Yes we know you are happy with what you got and dont want more scripts or more anything - thats fine you stick with that.

Personally of course I need more and many of my entities cant share scripts as I want as many of them as is possible to have individualistic behaviours and they do. Of course many entities will indeed need a unique script. If you dont have need for many differing behaviours or differing types of entities in your game thats fine. From your statements re FPSC I guess you dont need much of anything.

If anyone can get small numbers of master type scripts with a lot of various routines set up in them so they can apply and dish them out to a wide range of entities well they are better scripters than I and they most certainly are and I wish them luck - they will need it. They will be asking for more problems than the worth of it.

I would prefer to be specific with scripts in targeting control for individual behaviours to differeing entities in my own way by having one specific set of files to each. God knows FPSC gets confused enough now - whether it be as to whats in the libraries or whats in the scripts. Give an opportunity to mess up and it will. If you want to get the best from FPSC its best to keep it under tight control and dont give it any choices to make if you can help it. It does enough of that now interanlly and it causes all kinds of problems. The best results from FPSC will come from giving the end user flexibility to design everything including the scipting to go with the individual game design.

I personally have no reason to suspect that FPSC cant handle a lot more than 200 user defined scripts and associated AI entities - I am quite sure it can and thats not the problem as of itself as far as I am aware when it comes to slowdowns with regard to AI scripts. Its known and unknown errors and inefficiencies inside the engine and how it handles the same that is where the problem lies - Lee knows it and had said so long ago during FPSC development.

There are other reasons why in the case of scripts that the current number is not enough - I came up against the script limit some time ago and ran out of possibilities. Firstly FPSC has a large number of default scripts to start with and really - no one should touch those for a start so they take up a lot of the total if they are left to reside in the scriptbank. While they are there FPSC counts them and calulates them as being in use - you realise that? Its not scripts used in your game its the total number of scripts in the scriptbank folders in total FPSC looks at. If you add your own, buy new external or TGC model packs or any kind of media pack to add to your content many of the entities will have associated AI scripts - You could not use your new media if the additional scripts took the total in the sciptbank over 200 currently and exceeded the limit.
When TGC updates FPSC if that had additional .fpi scripts that would add to the total in the scriptbak folder and exceed the 200 limit you would not be able to install the update.

The result of an excess of .fpi scripts in the scriptbank folders - not in game as said - is a crash - the editor will not run if the limit is exceeded. 198 was my exact limit. In order to make new .fpi script files now I have to overite less important ones and make do.

Anyway the script limit is not an issue any longer or hopefully wont be when Lee updates the array limits for them.

There are many things the end users can do to speed up and make better games with it from many points of view - across the board we can too have influence over optimisation of all kinds of content including level design through to script content - but we cant overcome restrictions, bugs, issues or inefficiencies in the engine - we can just do our part at the hot end.

Unless a restriction is proven to be necessary - we dont need it - certainly not imposed. Those who want to impose self restriction for whatever reason then can.

Personally I cant yet include enough in a level whether it be a script or physical content yet to need any restriction and even an FPSC level can take some filling up when it comes to content - apart from the bugs or any other erronous behaviours - it can handle it as long as you work hard to get there - which is no different to any other engine around in existance if you want to something good with it.

Just a little more help from TGC with the things that cause known speed issues and it could do a great deal more and then you would see a much better product and level of content at this forum evolve.

So back on topic - if theres no reason for a 50 level limit - we dont need it. Let the end user decide if they want to download or play 50 levels or more....

Thats if anyone can make them.

I wish you'd compress your posts Uman...

AE

What so that I can make a useless post like - I need no script limit.

That kind you mean.