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Program Announcements / Tempest - A peer-to-peer UDP multiplayer plugin - Free release

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Grandma
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 00:58
@ RUCCUS

Altough i may not be Benjamin i think your problem is caused by a port being "taken" by your first "joiner" and a second one isn't possible unless it uses a different available and open port.

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I have no money, I have no skills. All of the hot hot elvin women are dancing with the big warrior guys. It's college all over again."
RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 01:10
Thats what I was thinking, running a test with a friend's computer in a moment to see if the problem persists.

Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Jul 2006 22:01 Edited at: 10th Jul 2006 22:02
@TobiasWK: I have attached a modified version of the example, with chat added.

Quote: "I am woundering if there will be a buyable version, and if so, when can I expect it, and how much money will I need to set aside for it?"

I'm not too sure if there will be yet.

Quote: "Thanks Ben!Have 2 of the most expensive cheeses in France, my treat"

Do I have to pay for them myself?

Quote: "However, this was simply becouse I was sending WAY to many packets per second. Taking you advice, how many per second would you reccoment for a 16 player max game?"

To be honest, for a long time I've believed in only sending out new data when the state of movement changes(when a key is pressed or depressed), as it is a lot more efficient. For the sake of simplicity I haven't yet modified the example to work this way.

Quote: "I tried to implement the chat function you posted earlier and i get an error very similar to TobiasWK's error when pressing the enter key to chat."

I forgot to mention a couple of things that needed changing in order for it to work. See the attached example.

Quote: "I ran a test for the Example 1 program two times, the first using my actual IP and the second using the loop-back address, and both times I managed to get 2 players connected (1 client and 1 host), but when running a third executable to try and get a third player in (this is all being done on my machine) I recieved a Failed to Connect error."

This is because by default the host will listen for data on port 3999, and the client will listen for data on port 3998. Ports cannot be shared by multiple programs. Use TSetLocalPort to set the port to use, or choose a range of ports.



Oh, and don't change the host's local port(unless you change the clients' remote port).

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 13th Jul 2006 18:06
Just another example with using Tempest to create a network game (basically a polished, bit more complex version of the Example provided):



Tested it with 5 other users and it worked fine. Great work once again Benjamin!

Benjamin
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 04:35
That's given me an idea..

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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SageTech
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Posted: 19th Jul 2006 09:44
Hi Ben,

Recenty Ive been having problems with packets not arriving to other players. So I did a few tests to narrow down the problem. The problem is having to do with a specific packet im sending containing all the weapon ids the player is using. The packet has an ID of 20 so the reicive code can pick it up. The Chat packet has the Id of the player that sent it. And of course the standard packet containing the positions, angles, etc has no id. The Packet with the id of 20 is sending fine, but not being recieved. Any Idea on what migt be going wrong? Thanks for the help,

Jase

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Math89
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 21:21
I've tried your plug in and I must admit it's great one, it took me a few minutes to understand how it works and make a little game with . Good work, man.
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 22:13 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2006 22:14
What is this error? It causes frequent disconnects when connecting through 127.0.0.1.




Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 18:10
Quote: "Any Idea on what migt be going wrong?"

I'm afraid not. It could be a mistake on your part, so just check that things are how they should be.

Quote: "I've tried your plug in and I must admit it's great one, it took me a few minutes to understand how it works and make a little game with . Good work, man."

Thanks.

Quote: "What is this error? It causes frequent disconnects when connecting through 127.0.0.1."

Strange, I've never encountered that. Try TSetDebugMode 255 before THost/TJoin to turn debug logging on, and show me the resulting logs.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 18:14
I've fixed it... somehow. I don't know how. Brilliant plugin, BTW, it's fantastic. Much better than Multisync. The last few commands on the first page, though, why aren't they in the DLL? The commands aren't recognized for me...


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Benjamin
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 23:22
Which commands?

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 16:43



Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 03:01 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 03:03
Try redownloading the file in the original post, I'm pretty sure the commands are there.

Er but obviously you must have the current version because you've read the updated help file so.. perhaps you have an older version of the DLL in your plugins-user folder(assuming you had previously downloaded an earlier version)?

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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temuchan
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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 06:17
hey there everyone! i downloaded the files and i copied the DLL to all the right spots. i made 2 copies of the exe file and gave one to a friend. i didn't change the program at all. i ran it on my computer and choose host. he ran his copy and choose join. we both used the IP 127.0.0.1

i can host the game fine and i can move my cube around, but my friend 's game says join game failed. his log looked like this:


do you have any ideas why this isn't working?
Benjamin
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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 20:14 Edited at: 8th Aug 2006 20:14
I've written a quick guide explaining how to set up internet/LAN games. It also explains some of the errors that Tempest reports. Download it from here.

@temuchan: Read my reply on your thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=86131&b=1

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 20:56
I'm trying to forward ports to my IP so I can get multiplayer working. I have to enter a range for the last digit in my IP address, what should I enter for that? I put 3998-3999 for the range in ports. I set the type as UDP. And then I have to choose a 'Block Time'. The options for that are 'always' or 'block'. I set it to always, because I don't know what to do with it.

So I need help wtih the last digit IP range, and the Block Time.

Can you help me with that?

(P.S. Multiplayer works fine over LAN)

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
temuchan
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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 22:57
ok on my thread i have posted more detailed info about the problems that i'm having.
Xenocythe
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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 04:02
Ok ignore my earlier post it was stupid.

But Benjamin, please help me. I used portforward.com

I used the guide and configured my router and my firewall perfectly to redirect UDP ports 3998-3999 to my IP address!
(I even triple checked that they were right)

It still doesn't work!

Please, please please help me get this working.

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 17:40
Perhaps a firewall is blocking the UDP packets? Or maybe the person who is connecting to you is using a firewall? It might also make a difference if they are using a router, so find out if they are.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 22:21
Well, benjamin, I the only person that I know for sure has multiplayer perfectly configured on their computer is you... so can you meet me on MSN and test with me? its a small file

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Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Aug 2006 21:44
On the contrary, I used to have the computer properly configured for it, but since getting broadband I haven't had multiplayer working completely. I'll try to meet you on MSN sometime however.

Have you actually been testing this with anyone else though?

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 11th Aug 2006 18:59
Yes, I've tryed, and it always failed. I am assuming it was just their firewall or computer... I see you on MSN right now but your busy

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 12th Aug 2006 00:18
Benjamin, I need help please.

I have tested my OFPS locally, and it works great, but when tested through the internet, it just always failes.

Here is the code for setting up the connection:



Help me with this please!

And by the way, earlier on I read that you can't use TJoin more than once, is that fixed, because I really need to use it constantly.

Is therea also a way to ping to a game, to see if it still exists, like for a server list?

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Benjamin
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Posted: 12th Aug 2006 03:36 Edited at: 12th Aug 2006 03:37
Quote: "I see you on MSN right now but your busy"

Indeed, I was doing a very specific task at that point in time..

Quote: "I have tested my OFPS locally, and it works great, but when tested through the internet, it just always failes."

You're gonna have to be a bit more informative than that. Which part failed, the hosting or the joining? I'll need to see the logs too.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 12th Aug 2006 03:38 Edited at: 12th Aug 2006 06:07
The joining.

I know the hosting worked because when it doesn't, the player ID is 0, but in this case it was 1. I think it was joining. Here is the log I got for joining:




EDIT: btw, its says in the log when I tried setting the ports that both ports, local and remote, were the same, even though I set them different. Happens when I join, or try to.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 15th Aug 2006 03:44 Edited at: 15th Aug 2006 14:56
I've almost got the multiplayer system perfected in my engine as of now, but I've also just began adding in some more detailed models to the game, which is lowering the FPS rate quite a bit. I noticed then that once the FPS drops below like 15 (I know its low, I havent optimized anything yet) all players lose their connection. ATM Im calling all of the network/TSync code every single loop, but I've seen in your examples that you only do that every x seconds. Could this be the culprate? Too much data trying to be recieved/sent and not being handles quickly enough before the next data is sent? (Because the Host ends up getting a lower FPS rate than the client).

The Tempest logs are saying the connections were lost due to a time out, Im assuming that means the player data wasnt recieved fast enough so a disconnection occured. Im gona try switching the code around now to only use the network stuff every umpteenth loop, but just wondering if you could spread some light on wether this would be the culprate (I know it has something to do with the framerate as when I go back to using low poly models and get my FPS back up to 60, it works fune).


<EDIT>

I figured out the problem. I was handling the connection code first, and then dealing with loading all of the 3D Media.This created a buffer of abot 20 seconds of media loading time where no data was being sent to the host, so the client got disconnected. I just swapped them around so that the media is loaded first, and then the connection is established, and it works like a charm now.

- RUC'


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Benjamin
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Posted: 15th Aug 2006 16:09
Ah yes, others have had that problem in the past. Infact I created a couple of commands for it: TSyncThreadOn to be called before the loading sequence, TSyncThreadOff to be called after. A bit of a hack really, but it works..

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe) - 71%
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 15th Aug 2006 20:57
Ben, just for the record, I changed the IP of the host to 0.0.0.0 and it failed yet again.

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Fallout
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Posted: 17th Aug 2006 23:10
First time checking out this plugin. I hear good things. I've just downloaded it and am reading through the DOCs you've made available in this thread. Thanks for the time you've put into this. Hopefully it'll be a good platform for me to handle multiplayer.

Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 16:03
Have fun with it Fallout, I hope it's sufficient to your needs. If not, um... be less needy.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 16:58
I'm not greedy! I think it'll do the job fine.

I've just finished putting together my first test app which basically moves a cube along a predefined course, making it simulate straffing, jumping, turning, firing a gun etc. What I'm gonna do is connect some machines together using Mr Tempest, then each cube on each machine with have a synchronised start and will follow the same path. They'll then send their data off to the other compos, and that'll move another load of cubes on the other computers. This way I can refine my prediction/packet delay code to get the movements as similar as possible. I'll post up the source and demo if it works if you like. If it fails, I'll disappear quietly into the background never to be seen again.

Just wanted to ask, can you suggest an amount of packets per second? I'm probably sending around 40-50bytes of data per packet. This will be for LAN and Internet, and possibly up to 32 players eventually. I thought 10 packets/second tops. That's 500bytes/second per player. So 16kb/s for 32players, ignoring any extra overhead from Tempest, unless I use a client/server method.

Also, when is the data actually sent from tempest? Is it on the TSync command or on the TSend/TSendAll command? I'm hoping to put together a pinging system to measure network delay as accurately as possible for player position prediction etc, so it matters when the data is actually sent.

Thanks a lot Benjamin. Sorry for the inquisition.

Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 17:11
Quote: "Just wanted to ask, can you suggest an amount of packets per second?"

Have you forgotten what Becky told you? Seriously, unless there is going to be key activity every frame then just send new data as key states change. If you don't want to do that, then if you're just doing this on a LAN you don't really need to worry about the rate of packets sent(unless maybe if you use a stone age router), just do some experimentation if you're unsure.

Quote: "Also, when is the data actually sent from tempest? Is it on the TSync command or on the TSend/TSendAll command?"

If you're not using the guarantee system it'll be instant.

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Fallout
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 17:23
Thanks for the info. I do remember Becky's key press suggestion and I'll definitely be implementing that, but with FPS controls you have to consider the mouse movement as well. This can be moved almost constantly, so sending a packet everytime mousemovex() is not zero, for example, could be overkill. I'll do as you suggested and just experiment and see what works out the smoothest.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 17:43
Benjamin, it always fails.. I've configured every router... every firewall...

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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 18:11 Edited at: 19th Aug 2006 18:15
Quote: "but with FPS controls you have to consider the mouse movement as well"

Ah.. yes. I don't know why, but I've never really thought about that. I guess for that it might be necessary to send at a set rate. Perhaps at a set time send the mouse coordinates(if the mouse has moved in that time), and if before then the regular data gets sent out then the mouse coords get sent aswell in that message, and the time variable gets reset. I don't know why I'm so bad at explaining things, but this should give some idea as to what I mean:



Quote: "Benjamin, it always fails.. I've configured every router... every firewall..."

Maybe it's a problem on the other end? Either way, turn debug logging on (put TSetDebugMode 255 above THost/TJoin) and show me both logs that result from testing it.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 19th Aug 2006 18:17
Do you mind going on MSN to test with me? No one else is online.

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The admiral
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 07:41
Hmm I wonder if there will ever be a way for multiplayer to exist without people having to configure their pcs and routers.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 14:30
As a matter of fact it is possible to a certain extent. The necessity of configuring NAT routers can be taken away if the game employs a technique called NAT traversal, which uses a third party server to help establish the connection. It doesn't work with all routers, but the majority. A lot of software and games currently use NAT traversal, and I'm planning on implementing this in Tempest eventually.

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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 16:55 Edited at: 20th Aug 2006 16:56
This looks like an interesting DLL

I'm working on a game creation software called Simple Game Toolkit and sometime in the future I was thinking of adding network multiplayer so I'll be keeping this in mind.

Fallout:
If you want to send 10 packets every second just INC a variable every frame with the miliseconds it took to do a loop (use timer()) and when you reach/exceed 100 miliseconds you send a package and DEC the variable by 100.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 20th Aug 2006 18:20
Muahahaha I got multiplayer working thanks to Benjamin!

Oh, lawl, if I add timer based movements it doesn't let the client join (it says timed out, lawl)

Applyby has Flies in his Eyes.
Fallout
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 22:05
@Benjamin

So far so good. Really nice plugin to use. The bolt-ons you've made like playerIDs and messageIDs simplify the data you actually send and make the code look a bit more structured. At the moment I've just got two compos on the LAN exchanging data, but I set up a pinging system and managed to get the <1 ms ping that the command line ping program reports, so everything seems fast and streamlined. I can get two compos starting the program in perfect synchronisation, but still need to work on my movement smoothing code.

Really good work. Gonna try an internet test tomorrow. Think I've got the port forwarding configured for my router, so it should be good. I assume clients won't need ports forwarded? Just the host?

Cheers Benjamin.

Benjamin
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Posted: 21st Aug 2006 23:52 Edited at: 21st Aug 2006 23:55
Glad to hear it's working well.

Quote: "but still need to work on my movement smoothing code. "

Had a look at cubic splines? http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article914.asp

Quote: "I assume clients won't need ports forwarded?"

They shouldn't do.

Oh by the way, about pinging.. I assume you mean you are utilising the process of pinging to measure the latency between computers? If so, don't send these pings as their own messages, send them as part of the main message. I'm planning on implementing a system in Tempest where (if the option is set) each message will have additional data to automatically get ping times.

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 18:03 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2006 18:04
Thanks Benjamin. That cubic splines article could come in handy actually. Also, if you do end up implementing some sort of pinging system automatically in tempest, that could be excellent.

Btw, I tried my first internet test today and failed. I'll go back and double check all my settings and just see if I have overlooked anything. It was a bit rushed. My router doesnt have any mention of port forwarding on it, but it has two sections - Application Gateways and Virtual Servers. Both are along similar lines to port forwarding, but I think the virtual server was the one I needed to configure.

The top one is how I configued the virtual server setting. The bottom one shows what it looks like on the Application Gateway screen. I don't think that's the one I need as that appears to be for outgoing traffic, so I think I got the port forwarding set up correctly. I also disabled my local firewall for the test to make sure that wasn't interfering.



I think I'm correct in saying I host with my local LAN IP, and the guy on the net joins with my router IP/internet IP? And then the router will forward info for that port onto my compo? If so, my Tempest settings appear to be correct, so I'll continue to look into my router and firewall configs.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 18:19
Those settings appear correct, perhaps it's a firewall on the other end? If you're unsure about how the router should be set up, check out http://www.portforward.com as it has specific instructions for many types of router.

Anyway yes, perhaps a firewall(even XP's built in one) on the client's computer is stopping them from connecting. It may also help to see the client's log file, as sometimes it can indicate what the problem is(in a lot of cases it can be a simple user error).

Quote: "I think I'm correct in saying I host with my local LAN IP, and the guy on the net joins with my router IP/internet IP?"

Yes. What you are basically doing is waiting for data on the LAN interface, which is what you are connected to your router by. The router receives data from the internet, and forwards it on to you(if it is meant to). Note that you can't have a client on the same LAN connect using the internet IP - the router will ignore outbound packets destined for the router's internet IP.

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 19:11 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2006 19:33
Ok, well it all sounds like it should work at the moment, but no luck. I tried a connection with somebody else and they couldn't connect. The log:


The remote IP is my correct IP, as confirmed by www.whatsmyip.org (I blanked a few numbers out incase we have some sad little script kiddies or hackers on the forums). However, when I used their port scanning page http://www.whatsmyip.org/ports/ and tried to scan ports 3998 and 3999, it reported them as closed, even when I was running the host app (which I assume is when they would definitely be open). This is with the port forwarding enabled and my compo firewall/internet security switched off. I wonder if this page is reporting it correctly? If so, then the problem is most likely my port forwarding, although I followed the instructions at portforward.com.

I'll keep poking around for now. I suppose if I can somehow confirm the ports are open, then I can rule out the problem is the hosting and start shouting at the people I'm testing with and blaming them!

Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 19:37
You're not by any chance using AOL are you?

Quote: "it reported them as closed, even when I was running the host app (which I assume is when they would definitely be open)"

Strange, it should definately report 3999 as open.

By the way, if you add my MSN we can talk about it on there, which would be quicker I'm thinking.

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Fallout
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2006 22:52
No no no. Not AOL. Actually, having thought about it some more, I've realised my internet connection is actually pretty complex. I have BT ADSL which makes use of a BT Adsl router (Voyager 205). I only just remembered this now, having thought about it ....

So basically, my network is setup like so:



I have to have both routers as the BT ADSL router accepts a phoneline type ASDL input (Belkin doesnt). But it's only 2 ports (1 USB, one ethernet). So that goes into the WAN input of my Belkin router, which then connects to three other PCs via its ethernet ports. The two I've been using for LAN testing are upstairs on that switch in the diagram.

So my port forwarding on the Belkin router was most likely insufficient. So I've now logged onto the BT router and have done the same thing. I've tried forwarding the ports onto the Belkin router, so the Belkin can forward it onto my PC, but no luck. I've also tried making both the BT and Belkin routers both forward onto my PC, but no luck. Maybe my bizarre network configuration is why I've never had any sort of hack attacks. Either way, I really dont think it's helping this problem. Perhaps I should just reverse roles and try and join a connection rather than hosting for testing purposes?

I'll recompile my proggy and take out the hardcoded host IP and reupload. If you're about tomorrow and there's still no joy, I'll come knocking on your MSN door. Thanks for your continued help.

Benjamin
19
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Aug 2006 00:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2006 01:32
Interesting setup. I'm not entirely sure how the devices should be configured in that setup, so I'll have to have a think about that.

Quote: "Perhaps I should just reverse roles and try and join a connection rather than hosting for testing purposes?"

Yes - when you send data from your computer, as it goes through the devices they set themselves up to allow data to come back through that path. In order words, you don't have to be entirely properly configured to actually connect to someone else, as long as the passive host is properly configured. In terms of hardware devices, at least..

I've tonight set up my router to allow Tempest to work properly through it. Because the router is actually a router/modem combo, there was no port forward section in the configuration, only LAN servers, and until I finally found this particular device on portforward.com I wasn't sure what I had to do. I really recommend you look up port forwarding for those devices on portforward.com(if you haven't already), it'll tell you exactly what you need to do.

So anyway, I'm properly set up to host games now, if you need someone to test with. *wink wink*

Oh and if you plan on testing with the same person you tested with before, make sure their router is set up properly.

Tempest - P2P UDP Multiplayer Plugin (DBP/DBCe)
Download the free version
Fallout
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Joined: 1st Sep 2002
Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 24th Aug 2006 01:21
Sorry, today I was hardly on the compo. I recompiled without the hardcoded host IP and uploaded the proggy, so it's ready to try with someone else hosting. I also made a post on portforward.com for some advice on setting up the routers, although it doesnt look like it's very busy there at the moment, so I doubt I'll get a reply. I let them know I was a game developer to see if that won me any browny points with feedback.

PortForward.com is actually a great site. My Belkin router I figured out myself, but my BT Voyager router was a bit complex (needed an username and password which I didnt have!), but all the info I needed was on that site. However, I still couldnt get it to work. I put my Belkin router in a DMZ on the Voyager router, which resulted in scanning ports Timing Out rather than being reported Closed like they were before. But 3998 and 3999 were still reported "Timed Out" like all other ports, even when I was running the host app. I might have to consider a hardware change in order to get hosting working which will be necessary to properly develop my game.

Anyway, if I'm about and you're about tomorrow, I'll drop you a line on MSN to give this thing a try. Thanks again. Hopefully we can confirm it's my setup, so I can then take a hammer to it.

Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Joined: 2nd Feb 2005
Location: Where evil doers are!Oh wait, my room!
Posted: 25th Aug 2006 16:15
great job benjamin

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