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FPSC Classic Product Chat / No save/load: But Has Anyone Thought of This?

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bond1
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 23:45
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Since there is no save/load (yet), how about this for an idea:

If you're really intent on selling your games, how about selling it through a subscription-like service?

This would be perfect since FPSC doesn't have save/load. You could create a couple of levels ,or "chapters" if you will, and sell them through a website for a minimal amount. If the game and story line is good, then people will come back for more!

This is also great for the developer, as it would save you from creating an entire game first, which is a huge task. Instead you could concentrate on making one or two levels really good, with an interesting story line, and perhaps leaving a cliffhanger at the end making the player yearn for more, waiting for the next installment.


I use FPSC purely for my own enjoyment, but if I were going to sell my games, I think this could be a great way to do it!

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Lizblizz
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 23:47 Edited at: 25th Mar 2006 23:50
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how come they never made a save/load system?

bond1 i have this old script that might work for saveing and loading its from gamemaker 6 here ill post it


this is the save one

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Lizblizz
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Posted: 25th Mar 2006 23:52
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Heres the load one



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brummel
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 00:03
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Good idea bond1, very good.
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Lizblizz
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 02:54
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yhea it is a good idea if you have been to [href]hhtp://www.stick death.com[/href] play there game crack house clean up or something like that when you complete a level you move to another link and when you die you just repeat that stage so and so on

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FredP
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 03:16 Edited at: 26th Mar 2006 03:23
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I thought about doing my game like one of those Saturday afternoon serial movies they used to show.Where you come to the site each week or month or whenever and you get to play the next chapter.
Or maybe get the whole game hosted online and when someone logs in they can play the game and pause it and log out and log back in later and play from where they left off.

Edit post:I just checked out those scripts with the FPI maker and it says they are valid.Of course I do not know what to do with them...lol.

FLA
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Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 03:49
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bond...i love you .. . . . . .... that may work...even tho im not gonna sell my games...it would be a way to get around saving and loading

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Lizblizz
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 03:52
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mine i has return?

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FredP
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 03:54
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Yes.It says the save and load scripts are both vaild.I don't know what to do with them though.You might have to put it in the source code or something like that and that is beyond me.Maybe Merravano knows.

FLA
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Lizblizz
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 04:00
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they worked wow! yaaaaaaye! this might be a natinal fanaminal! yes we must get mollsolive/mervano

oh Mosilov oh mosilove we need your help to tweeek up these scripts

thanks i has return for testing i thought they might work well for now

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 04:17
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That is a branch of what appears to be c.

Arrays:
entityelement
player
weaponslot
weaponammo
playerinventory

Variables:
gunid
level

all I can tell needs to be saved. Besides location markers

The dbp command is savearray and loadarray, I think. and the load should occur after the gameload. So script command. Problem? I am not working on it atm.

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Lizblizz
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 04:19
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so your saying?

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SOTSOG GameCreators
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 10:51
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Come on Mosillivo don't leave the whole FPSC community hanging.....?

"Never figure on your poultry enterprise until the proccess of inqubation has been throughly realized."
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 14:56
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Bon1, I think it's a great idea, but the gamers will have to download around 150Mb or more each time they get a few new levels. Are they willing to that?

At all others and their scripting efforts.... you need to go to the source to get save/load implemented. It's not as easy as you may think it is, after all TGC didn't get it right even after 3 years of work. CB (Riker9) is still having much trouble with, even after months of trying.

As far as Mosillivo and his help goes..... I'm still waiting for a number of engine additions that he claimed would be very easy to do. Unfortunally he neved did any of them and I'm doubt he will ever do it and can do it.

I've proposed something much more easy to accomplish then save/load..... revert to the old style end of level save with or without passwords. At the end of the level the players progress is recorded or he's given a password. Next he plays the game he can either choose his name from a list or type a level password. That is much easier to accomplish. I do not have DBPro myself, but have implemented such a system in a number of my older games. It's the easiest thing to do imo.

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xplosys
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 16:54
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Someone else brought this up before, I think. The idea was something like this:

Create each level individually as a seperate compiled game exe. Except for the first level, compress each level as a zip or rar and password protect it.

At the end of each level just before win zone, display the password for the next levels compressed file. (on a wall/picture/story zone or something)

Then you could put all the levels on one disk or download, and the player would have to complete the previous level to get the password to install the next level.

Crude, but an option.

Crazy Grandpa
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Habatar
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 17:54
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Yeah. I'am workin on similir system for months. Each game is a chapter of a great history. And If sold, sol as low price.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 23:16
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Ben A...
Quote: "At all others and their scripting efforts.... you need to go to the source to get save/load implemented. It's not as easy as you may think it is, after all TGC didn't get it right even after 3 years of work. CB (Riker9) is still having much trouble with, even after months of trying."


CB has no trouble with save load, he just wants to optimize it. If you were to savearray as I said, you might end up with 60MB files, that is bad. I don't know the exact ammount, but obviously it will be a large number. Those are the arrays and variables I found that appear to be needed. As for the player location... that is a bit weird. It appears there are no ACTUAL variables that really tell, but just camera points.


At the moment I am doing some work I need to do, but source wise. I am continually trying to remove the DeBug code from the source. Problem is I am aperantly going to need to start reading it, last one, where I removed over 2000 lines, resulted in 640 x 480 screen size and enemy textures weren't loaded. Nore were the bullet textures.

I also found a flaw with the code of the flashlight, that would make the light immobile, but it didn't even turn on. I am looking into it... (BIG CURSE WORD) Merranvo, you are a idiot!

Quote: "
if flashlighton=0
flashlighton=1
endif
if flashlighton=1
flashlighton=0
endif
"


Yeah... that might cancel each other out.

The point is, many things I say are do able. Expecally if they are only are adjustments to existing code, or built off of that code. But try and change some of the Lee Code... you are going to have problems. It takes sometime to figure out what you are changing, and time to change it. Then you have to debug, which of course, is a pain.
Problem is, I keep trying to change the Lee Code.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 26th Mar 2006 23:53
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Mosillivo, I do really find it hard to believe you at times.... You over and over tell us what CB is doing (even contradicting his very few posts at times), while he himself gives out hardly any information, very, very, very, strange.

You make everything sound so easy and often claim how easy things can be done, yet come up with nothing tangible yourself at all.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 00:44 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 00:46
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benjamin,

'mosvillo is correct. we have compiled a version of fpsc with flashlight and a few bug fixes. he also ripped out a lot of potentially unneeeded code which caused a lot of problems.

as for save/load, there is the easy way and the hard way. the easy way, find all the arrays and variables, and SAVE ARRAY, you could have save load in maybe 20 lines. but, like mossvillo said, positions wouldent be recorded, and the file sizes would in some cases be bigger than the actual game itself.

the hard way, take as long as cb and TGC are doing and implementing things at each step of the source, recording object positions, and saveing to a file, so it would be 1-2 mb per save file

its not as simple as he makes it sound, but it is quite simple



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Les Horribres
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:05 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 01:07
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I have a question Ben A, can you program? And at what degree?
If you are a programmer, you would know that simply moving a few variables around is no big deal. FPSC is pretty much built, if you want something, all you have to do is find the variables, and change them.

Now things like Capture the Flag require a little extra, Primarly, point spawning. That in essance is easy enough... but then you need to set up teams, and from then it gets a little trickyer. You are shifting though source locating the variables needed to do stuff.

As a non-programer, or a low end programmer, people assume either that adjustments are hard (because they can't do it) or easy (because they have never done it). In the end run, it really depends on what type of adjustment you are talking about. 70% of the intresting stuff is controled via scripting. And every variable is accessable via scripts, so if you are just changing a variable, it is actually very easy. If you are re-writing the engine... it gets much more difficult.


As for knowing what CB is doing, as a programmer, I can understand what he is saying. With the source out, I can see what is going on. And with a reply via forum or messanger, I can ask. On top of that, when push comes to shove, I have a very good memory. If I think back I can remember what was said, not exacts, but rather close. So, I can tell you what he said before, and what he is logically doing.



Just as a note Bullshox, I think I tore out all the MP like you wanted (and unlike some builds, even the subrouitens, variables, types.) At least now I can't seem to find anything refrencing multi player anymore.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 01:48
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good,

i noticed some MP routines were being acsessed even in SP games thus slowing down the engine

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Whyrag
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 03:19
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Bonds Idea is really cool. As for the rest of the thread.. I think multiplayer should be taken out and other features brought in. I really dont think this on line play was a good move for the game creators to focus on. They should drop that and continue on to fix storyzone and other important areas. Who the hell is ever on line with thier game anyways ?... The cart was before the horse on the online thing. Please drop it out ! Work on important stuff to make this great software even better. wow... just venting here... anyways... storyzone bug is the first fix that should be done in my opinion. Later, whyrag
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op89x
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 05:56
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Don't drop multiplayer! I'm working on a game that is multiplayer only, like Turok: Rage Wars.

Only worth $5.

Take that comment as you will.
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bond1
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 07:18 Edited at: 27th Mar 2006 07:27
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Quote: "Bon1, I think it's a great idea, but the gamers will have to download around 150Mb or more each time they get a few new levels. Are they willing to that?
"


True that is a large download, but certainly not a deal-breaker. Especially for broadband users.

Great games almost always have great stories. And the saddest part of a great,immersive game is that it eventually ends...

Think of it...a game that has the potential to be never-ending, always evolving. A great story that can draw a player in and leave them wanting more, waiting for the next installment. Its certainly intriguing...

And the game doesn't always have to be non-stop action to make it interesting. A vacant level can evoke a sense of wonder or loneliness, leaving subtle hints about what may be coming up next...

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 14:09
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Mosillivo, I know moving around or changing some values isn't hard to do, but we're talking about an efficient save/load system.

That's not just moving around or changing some values, that's far more complicated. But you make it sound so easy, while CD, Bullshock, TGC and even others already have clearly stated that an efficient save/load system isn't that easy at all.

Quote: "I have a question Ben A, can you program? And at what degree?"


Does GW-Basic count?
Define programmer..... I don't really know much c++, I've stopped real programming a long time ago. I used to program in Assembly & Pascal, but that may have been before your time. Before that I used to program on the MSX, but that seems to be ages ago.

Nowadays, I only code (I choose that word on purpose). I know my way around in the 3D GameStudio A5/6 code (coded a prize-winning game with it) and have used darkbasic a number of years ago, but most 'programmers' do not consider that programming at all, so I call it coding. Reason for me to not use darkbasic anymore is the outdated engine and 3D GameStudio A6 has a major update problem, so I switched to FPSC instead, seeming perfect for my projects.

I debated to get DBPro, but seeing that the investment would be much more to complete my projects, I choose FPSC. With DBPro I would need a number of others apps, like 3D world studio for example), so FPSC became my first choice. I'm very content with it, just would love to see some kind of save/load system for it, that would make it perfect.

Just being able to just start in any level would be fine for me already.

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munky
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Posted: 27th Mar 2006 17:39
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I made a few possible suggestions re the no save/load situation.
here's the forum page link :

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=69877&b=21

It's a bit of a clumsy idea but it may work and there aren't many alternatives ....are there???????????????

munky

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Mar 2006 06:12
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Ben A, as a post-programmer, I would think you would have understood.

Effecency is only the saving of variables you want. it IS STILL EASY. The gui is the harder part. As CB said in a latter thread. But bullshox is a very good Gui Master! Even if he doesn't include blue gui, I feel that he can pull off something good. (I will also see about implementing further fancy features if we do pursue in this course of action)

I am tearing MP and DEBUG out because we don't need them in an SP game. It will also be easier to edit the code without them cluttering up the already excessivly long code (I wish this was like C, so I could take out the constants, and take out the global variables, without effecting the code)

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 28th Mar 2006 13:17 Edited at: 28th Mar 2006 13:23
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I do understand your point, but with what I proposed (using triggers to go to different levels), you don't need a GUI at all. You could do it from with in a game.

If it's easy to do, then I wonder why someone never created such an addition to FPSC.

I'm glad though that many people have jumped at this issue and I really hope something good will emerge.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 29th Mar 2006 04:04
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Because most of the people here don't own DBP, and a lot of DBP'rs don't give a damn?

The problem is that either you can write a command and limit you to a set image for each save load, or you can have a really cool gui. That isn't that hard, What it does is create an array based on the ammount of saves that exist, then loads images (can be created by a command... I think I can do it.) But more importantly, can save the name of the game... and that is the first and most important part. What I hope to do is create a single script command to deal with it, elsewise the commands will be huge, and you will have to put them back in every time you edit. +, this way will just be cooler

Sorry for yelling alot, I do that when I am sleep deprived.

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