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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Any DB/DBP games made it big?

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Eponick
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 00:49
I was just wondering if there were any DB or DBP games that made it to stores.

Hehe, just curious
Rob K
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Posted: 21st Mar 2003 00:59
Possibly StarWraith 3 I believe (www.starwraith.com)

DBP has only been out for 6 months - so obviously no games have really been released commercially built using them yet.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Bulleyes
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 09:06
Well, our company is using DBpro now for our games. If you are interested, you can take a look at [href]http://www.badnose.com/

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
Eponick
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 11:34
Hmm, sun crusher looks cool.. heh

Why does it say you need 3 years of C/C++ if you program with DBP?

Bulleyes
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 18:43
Yeah... you got a very good point there. I used to work with C/C++ using DirectX for games. For those that came from the same background as me will appreciate the power of DBpro.

Although a lot of ppl saying that DBpro is still kinda buggy. But I guess we should be patience and give it more time to get matured. I have faith in DBpro that it will become and ultimate game programming language!

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
Bulleyes
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 18:52
Oh... and one more note to add. For my opinion, get DBpro, buy it, experiment and get famlilliarized with it. When it is stabled, at least you already got a headstart among others that are still hesitating on buying it.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
EddieRay
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 05:34 Edited at: 30th Mar 2003 19:48
Well put Bulleyes. It's an investment in time. Certainly, it doesn't get any easier than DB...

Back to the question at hand, the Star Wraith games are the only commercial games I've heard about before being written with DB (haven't checked out badnose yet). Note, the SW games are written with DBC v1.13 Enhanced - and I don't blame the author for sticking with DBC one bit, given the "seat of the pants" nature of DBPro right now.

Making a project THAT big yourself, you can't constantly be rewriting code for new versions of DBPro and be debugging problems with DBPro... you wouldn't actually be getting any game coding done.

madbilly
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 15:17
Yeah, the new game - RiftSpace - looks pretty good but I think that's in DBC isn't it? Only needs DX7 anyway. I'm looking forward to that one being brought out
EddieRay
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 19:45
Yep, RiftSpace will use DBC as well.

Dave J
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 03:49
Uhh, was Bad Nose's site layout influenced by Blizzard's site at all? The resemblance is uncanny haha. Sun Crusher does look and sound very, very cool though.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Mnemonix
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 04:09
Although i have only been working with DB for about a year now. And only a member of the community for 5 months. The biggest project that i have worked for (and still am) is Eternal Destiny by Halbros. I hope our game makes it big

Im addicted to Proplus.
Current Project: Eternal Destiny by Halbros Productions
http://www.halbrosproductions.netfirms.com
Bulleyes
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 08:06
Hehehe.... we had nothing to do with Blizzard. But maybe our webmaster was somehow influenced or inspired by Blizzard though.

Well, right now we are working on Sun Crusher. Hopefully we can make the best out of DBpro. I guess this will gave some sense of confidence to all developers here as well.

Bad Nose Entertainment - Where games are forged from the flames of talent and passion.

http://www.badnose.com/
Dave J
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 09:19
lol, For sun crusher are the images on the 'artwork' page models or some other form of graphics? Because artwork gives the impression of concept sketches but they look like 3d models to me.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
malcom2073
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 14:22
Virtual Insanity went around my school pretty good for a while. Dunno how popular overall it was. Wasnt advertized as being made in DB tho I know it was.

the architect
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Posted: 31st Mar 2003 23:48
I think the problem with DB is that even though it has potential for the right minded people usually they will be employed and their talents used for c++ and dx purposes.

Afterall most people who use DB a generally tinkerers.

KamaKase
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 00:50
C++ with Direct X is so evily hard. I tried to write a menu for it. It took me ages, and it still didn't work!!!
Anywho, Loco-Commotion is the "furthest" DB game I know of.
IMO it's a horrible game. But it sets a land mark. I saw this game randomly in my local Game shop after playing a DB demo of it.

BoB Vila
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:22 Edited at: 1st Apr 2003 05:22
I think we'll start to see DBP explode into the retail industry.
We'll probably never see Major Development studios like Capcom or Rare making games with DBP. But due to nature of the product and how can drastically cut production costs, we'll probably see some smaller game companies who can't compete with the massive budgets start to adopt these time saving tools.

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
MikeS
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:27 Edited at: 1st Apr 2003 05:28
I agree with BoB Vila.

We will definitly see some DBP games coming into the gaming market.

As far as walking into your local computer store and seeing a game made in DBP ,there will not me many.(Who knows maybe there will)

But I can guarentee we will see lots of GOOD games selling on the internet.

Clans of our Galaxy
A new space simulation coming in 2004 -yellow-
updates:20 new spaceship models
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 05:53
i don't think so... but thats because of track records so far really.
i think until DarkBasic Professional moves into a more 'Professional' development aspect, it'll remain an amature developer tool with not many products actually being developed seriously enough.

i mean look at the relation, you can get DarkBasic Pro for £55 or you can get C++ .Net for £81 - the difference in intial cost is minimal, and to develop anything which has a ghost of a chance of making the games as widely as accepted as more commercial games from the larger companies, you'll want to program some more indepth or more tied in functions - which really to enhance the product you have to program DLLs for anyways, especially for third party things like Music Libraries or Video Libraries and such.

Which in the end most of the more proficient programmers here have copies of C/C++ for this very task ... so if there isn't a function we have or could create within Pro we can hop over to C++ and make it in that.

Perhaps with console compatiblity :: begins to wonder what happened to the guy who said he was working on an Xbox Converter :: ... it certainly won't be a pick of many gameing houses budget or not - especially as they'll still have to use fully paid for 3D Packages and Music packages, etc... which we all know are actually the main bulk of the initial costs ... and Game Engines being programming won't help matters because it does take just as long to get something worth while working in C++ by a good programmer than in DarkBasic Pro with a good programmer because the data operators arn't quite as clean cut, meaning you have to actually work around them (especially as they're not 100% reliable)

i know i'll probably be flamed for comments like that by people thinking i don't love DBpro - which most will know that'd be complete bull, i'm just saying i doubt this particular version of DarkBasic will make it into the professional development market.

however if the lessons are learnt from DB and DBpro then DB 200x will certainly herald a better future on that front, however no doubt will see a more professional price tag on it as well... i think for the next CD release (what would that be 1.8.0?) i think perhaps the team should think about working on something to make it a Studio tool to make it more appealing - like perhaps a Modeling Program, an Art Program, a Midi Sequencer, etc..

perhaps not with it, but smaller seperate programs which are designed specifically for it (but with external use too, obviously) - THAT would shave alot of the initial startup from companies even budget not paying thousands, plus it'll give them a fully compatible studio from day one

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Jon Irenicus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 10:10
Exeat : the pics on the artwork section are 3d models .

Dave J
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 10:16
I thought so.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Jon Irenicus
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 10:27
well hope to get some screenshots posted up soon *fingers crossed*

otakucg
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Posted: 1st Apr 2003 23:52
Well so far it looks like a rather nice product. The only issue I see on the art creation side is that for us people who do 3D as a living and have worked on the game side the 3D file formats seem to be a small issue. If DBPRO had its own 3D file format for storing 3D data and animations that would make things a lot better for us on the professional end. The reason I say that is that I have yet to run into anyone who actually uses the X file format. Also as far as quake and half-life formats they are always extended or thrown out all together by whomever licenses the engine. There was a FPS I worked on that was setup on top of the Quake III engine but the development company had thrown the old file format out all together. We dont mind conforming to a specific format it just seems kind of sketch to set things up to work with a format for someone elses title. If dbpro had its own format setup and then posted the specs up we could the write our own exporter from Maya, LightWave or 3dsmax (even though most places I know of have gone onto Maya for game dev). If the DBPro team writes plugins of their own please make sure to include the source. Right now I am dealing with another engine on a personal project. The exporter they wrote has some limitations that we know we could get around if we wrote it ourselves. Which is what we may end up doing. Grr.

Johnny5
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 00:15
Raven,
You mentioned someone creating an XBOX converter for DB? raven said: "-- Perhaps with console compatiblity :: begins to wonder what happened to the guy who said he was working on an Xbox Converter :: "
Anyone know anything about this?
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 01:17
I know of 3 ppl working on Xbox converters/emulators. Haven't heard from any of them for a while but if you search the forums you'll find details.

I think that some commercial products made with DBP will be released - I certainly know of some, but I would be surprised if it ever reaches over 1% of the market, simply because of the stigma attatched to non c products. Oh well...

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 04:45
yeah i know Sam ... but really i see it only being 1 or 2 programs that ever make it to the mass market.
personally i'm quite impressed you've hooked yourself a publisher, and a pretty good one at that ... and i know that DG is working Semi-Pro within DBpro for his 'pea-man' series thanks to his giving government.

my own products are planned for a retail level, but then i've not been outside of that side of development ever - more just testing reactions on what is shown very occasionally form time to time here to know what the takeup within the base community would be.

there have been a few who've mentioned working on EXE -> XBE converters for the DBpro programs - however not long after he mentioned it was kinda working with basic C++ w/DirectX programs he kinda just disappeared. And i'd of loved to have tested its working perhaps working on recoding a legal version which could grab a licence for - cause as i said at the time, if the program was done and was just a matter of paying for the licence i'd be willing to... not going to invest in something i can't physically test though.
i'm not that stupid

Right now Formats arn't a problem for me though, probably because the past year i've been stretching out from just using programs like Max, Maya, Lightwave etc... and started to learn C/C++ to program them.
For example Kangeroo2 Model format i've developed importer/exporters for Max, Maya & Milkshape which use the Skeletal Animation. The hope is when DBS finally do release the information i need i'll be creating a plugin to directly load them into DBpro as well
right now there is alot of code to do it, and these are for Sam (who is the one who'll hold the copyrights) ... so i can't release them exatly in the state they are. And with DBO i expect the format to actually probably change a little to adopt some of DBO to make it a little more friendly.

But i've been doing this for around 6-7months now developing formats which can be read into DB or DBpro using Memblocks. Making exporters for program is an equally simple task really, just need to know the value conversions of the data types... believe it or not this is why i just adore the Memblocks and File Commands - because they're just so damn'd versitile that you can create whatever you like with them. Yet so many people are scared of them or don't fully understand them.

Realtime file maniuplation really, or data types ... whatever you want. i think recently alot more users have been catching onto exactly what you can do with them - how you can shift around the memory in a way that you can't with an array. If you use 2 in DBpro you can make it as open ended as you want, meaning that you can even make Arrays with multiple data types from standard data types in an open array (no stacking)

its just all a case of setting up the initial functions that will allow you to achieve this! which just takes time and patience, not any particular skill.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Neophyte
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 08:28
@Johnny5

Quote: "Anyone know anything about this?"


Yes.

[href] http://www.caustik.com/xbox/news.htm[/href]

I believe you will also find the source code for his xbe->exe converter on that website as well. If all goes well the xbox emulator should be playing commercial games in just a few months.

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