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Geek Culture / Wireless networks and stupid people!

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spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 16:16
Currently setting up a wireless network at home in preparation for ADSL next week.

Someone nearby obviously has adsl on a wireless connection as I am currently posting this on THEIR internet connection without them knowing!

Me, being paranoid have set up locked MAC addresses, 128 bit WEP, e.t.c. to stop same happening to me.

Free internet, mmmmmmmm
Gronda, Gronda
darkCorridor
21
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Joined: 27th Jan 2003
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 16:38
isn't there are word for this ... um oh yes ... hacking ... doesn't this count under a new Law ? ... oh yes terroism

[br]mikey
Shadow Robert
22
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 18:00
hey not bad free internet (^_^)
its not really hacking, unless you count buying a CB Radio and accidentally flicking it on to find out your on the Police Bandwidth. If they don't scramble the frequency and setup the locks then really its not hacking because he's not done anything wrong ... just having a free ride.
Atleast you know if your ever turned off someone else has a connection you can "borrow" from time to time.

I had a bluetooth Wireless Lan at home for a while, and didn't realise people could do that sorta thing until Norton kept flashing up that someone was using my network... so like an idiot i went around the house looking for connections that could've been causing it. But the manuals never said that frequency wasnt setup specifically for my set - so like in the end i found out i was acting as a server for like 3 families, kinda wonder'd why my T1 was so blasted slow lol
Only reason i know is because they actually complained when it was switched off, cause they thought it was part of the building's freebie stuff like our Satillite was. lol

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Speedhorn
21
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Joined: 6th Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 18:08
I'm on crappy dial-up BT Internet. It's the anytime package, but you're only allowed 150 hours a month, which sucks.
The old rule was you were allowed to be connected for 12 hours a day, so on an average month, let's say 30 days, that means you're allowed on for 360 hours a month.
Apparently people were using "stay connected" software which stopped users being disconnected every 2 hours (which BT still do) and allowed you to stay on for longer than 12 hours a day. They say that now that because of this new restriction, you get better connections, that's B/S because my connections are the same and sometimes worse

Ok, that's my rant over, but further more to the point, i've worked on a few of my family members bosses' computers, fixing stuff, but mainly they were having problems with their internet (BT - oh what a surprise, you strike again), however, the good thing is, i remembered their user names and passwords, therefore if i ever run out of "hours", i'll just "borrow" some of theirs.

Ralph, Jesus didn't have wheels.
Shadow Robert
22
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 18:16
lmao... tsk tsk Speedhorn
but BT is kinda pathetic - NTL is one of the best in the UK (which isn't saying much) - but my brother connectes for me like 8am his time, and i can proxy the AOL connection anywhere in the world - and like 7am when he wakes up he'll turn it off to let the computer rest for an hour, but it has been known to be on for upto 190hrs without rest without logging off.
pretty good especially considering how unstable AOL has been known to be, but as i pay like £21/month for the AOL Worldwide connection (£16/month is the actually 24hr connection) plus another £8/month for the phoneline i mean isn't much when you think about it...

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
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Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 19:03
"but it has been known to be on for upto 190hrs without rest without logging off."

New people to this forum should appreciate that Raven thinks that this is a lot because he uses Windows.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Shadow Robert
22
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 23rd Mar 2003 21:31
Rob for ANY dialup connection over a week of constant use is ALOT

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Xoid
21
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 16:42
Raven, I would just like to correct you 'Hacking' doesn't necessarily mean that you have to do something wrong

Just thought I'd clarify that, thanks for your time
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 02:49
yes it does... i guess if you take it by what lots of people think it means then no - but to hack something you must enter it without authorisation.

basically its the computer worlds version of 'Breaking and Entering'
if the door is wide open then you didn't break-in and you can't be prosecuted for it ... this extends the same way to hacking.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
indi
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 28th Mar 2003 03:02
errrrrrrrrrrrrrr wrong dorkus maximus.

a hack in the old day was an improvement on someones program tape.

A classic example of this was the modifications done to the first video game on the pdp11 in the 1950 - 1960's with the TMRC.

Its belegerent homosapians like you veg who misconstrude information very badly.

Xoid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 11:47
Thank you for backing me up Indi this Raven person seems to THINK he knows IT ALL, LOL

Quote:
"to hack something you must enter it without authorisation."

so, Raven, if someone gave you PERMISSION to bypass their security system to TEST security and you SUCCESSFULLY accessed their system, you wouldn't call that hacking?

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
Xoid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 12:18 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 12:43
People misinterpret the words 'Hacker' or 'Hacking' to be something illegal, ok so there are 'Hackers' who do try and break into systems ILLEGALLY, but there are also businesses who provide 'hacking services' to test security systems etc...

I blame it on the media, 'Script Kiddies' get caught trying to penetrate systems and they call themselves 'Hackers' then before you know it, the media spread the word around suggesting that ANYONE who HACKS are doing something illegal, i.e. breaking into a system without prior PERMISSION, this is INCORRECT INFORMATION.

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Mar 2003 19:23
indi "a hack in the old day was an improvement on someones program tape"

do you seriously think about what you write?
the hack being done in this fashion is changing the copyritten data, oftenly done without permission or by the original user... else it is a patch!

you'll find professional hackers arn't actually called 'hackers' nor do they term themselves as such, but they're Software Security Engineers (possibly more because of being PC) ... however although they are breaking into the systems as it is being done WITH permission to test them, it isn't illegal nor is it considered as hacking. But is a Security Stress Test - although they are trying to bypass the system. These people are protected by the Data Protection act 1986.

you are not hacking data unless your changing it from its original state, and within the context it was being stated within is to gain access to a computer system without the permission of the operators.
Hacking Software you're changing data in order to bypass or extend something but this is ALSO done without permission - because those with permission are Patchs.

Action Replay for example is a hacking utility ... however it isn't illegal because the changes arn't perminant, it is endorsed by the gaming industry because it extends the life of games, and it is also classed under 'cheat hacking' because of the actual way it is changing the data.

Script Kiddies arn't hackers, for a simple reason that they are not doing anything to actually 'hack' the system they're trying to enter - however someone who uses a trojan suchas Back Orafice to do the same deal is!
The Data Protection Act, Internet and Network Data Protection and Access Acts all cover this in great detail what is and what isn't considered to be part of the law.

i'm not sure how more clearly i can put this for ya'll to understand

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
the_winch
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Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 28th Mar 2003 19:52 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 19:54
Quote: "do you seriously think about what you write?
the hack being done in this fashion is changing the copyritten data, oftenly done without permission or by the original user... else it is a patch!"


In the old old days there was no copyright as such and messing with other peoples programs was almost encouraged and it would have often been called a hack.
I wouldn't call hacking some public domain code illegal either.

Quote: "i'm not sure how more clearly i can put this for ya'll to understand"


I don't think people are having issues understanding you it's just that hacker doesn't mean what you think it does to a lot of people.

Xoid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 22:20
Raven you really type aload of rubbish, you haven't got a clue what you are on about LOL.

I didn't say 'Script Kiddies' are hackers

Quote from my last post:
" 'Script Kiddies' get caught trying to penetrate systems and they call themselves 'Hackers' "

yes, script kiddies call themselves hackers because they like to THINK they are elite.

anyway, How can I explain to you? you don't understand, you contradict yourself in alot of posts, it's just not worth arguing a point with someone who THINKS they know it all.

IF you read my post CAREFULLY you would understand.

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
Dazzag
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Cyprus
Posted: 29th Mar 2003 01:58
If I remember rightly from good old CS days (although they were rather alcohol soaked, so fairs fair), apparently before copyright on computer programs, programmers put stuff like poems and songs into their remarks, which were copyrightable. This stuff was normally before the critical system lectures so were ignored big style as opposed to the Airbus funny crashes and ambulance software type data.

Hmmm, so tired that I just realised none of that is very interesting. Hmmm. Sleep soon....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
indi
22
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 29th Mar 2003 08:45
yeah raven is our comedy relief around here.

indi
22
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Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 29th Mar 2003 08:47
btw raven u might like to buy this book and read it.

http://digital.library.upenn.edu/webbin/gutbook/lookup?num=729

read it properly and u might learn something

LLX
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 10:13
AHEM In regurards to computers

HACKERS are the HARMLESS guys who look but dont touch.
CRACKERS start editing shit

And that the REAL Definition, hacking is generall a bad thing to do to companies as it is breakign andentering but its also how you find security holes, CRACKING on the other hand is akin to Break, Entering, and Theft.

Xoid
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 13:52
LLX, again, I don't want to make enemies by arguing about a subject such as 'Hacking' LOL, the reason why most people THINK the real definition of Hacking is someone who breaks into computer systems illegally blah blah blah, because of MEDIA intervention, the MEDIA have got it ALL wrong, hacking doesn't necessarily MEAN breaking into computer systems illegally, as I stated in my first post.

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee
EdzUp
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 14:38
In the old days hackers are what coders are today, they used to hack stuff together to get the machine to do something its not supposed to like displaying more colours than it had.

Crackers are the people who entered systems in the old days, this wasnt illegal up until the mid eighties when the anti hacking bill came out and then everyone who cracked peoples systems were called hackers (due to the bill).

To clarify: using someones system WITHOUT thier consent can be considered hacking, me I think its stupidity but thats just me .

-EdzUp
Xoid
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 17:11
yes, EdzUp breaking into someones system illegally can be classed as 'Hacking' but that isn't it's ONLY definition.

Do not anticipate the outcome of the engagement, let nature take it's course, and your tools will strike at the right moment - from "Tao of Jeet Kune Do" by Bruce Lee

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