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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / rotation ISSUES! Why not fixed yet?!

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madbilly
23
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Joined: 20th Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Mar 2003 13:19
Why, oh why, if the problem with rotation (z axis, free flight etc) has been reported as an official bug, has it not been fixed yet? I can't seem to do anything that I want to do because of this one little thing not working. I've tried loads of things (fix object pivot, set rotation...) and nothing works. THEN, when I think I have solved it, I try and move the object and it only bloody moves along one global axis, not its own one! As far as I'm aware it works in standard DB, so why can't anybody make it work in DBPro - can't the code for it just be cut and pasted? Why does it take 5 patches before this seriously obvious bug gets fixed?

If anybody knows a workaround, or, if I'm being stupid, knows how to get free flight rotation working, then please can they let me know - I AM tearing my hair out in frustration and general pissed-off-ness.

Cheers,

Will Davis
Dr OcCuLt
23
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Joined: 27th Nov 2002
Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 24th Mar 2003 14:46
well do you i not clear on what you do you what the OBJECT roll about it own z-axes, if this is you problem it not a bug it a fact of life about how 3D engins work.

i get back to u about a way to get it to work.

--Dr 0--


Most people are other people.Their thoughts are someone else`s opinions,thier lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation
Oscar Wilde
madbilly
23
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Joined: 20th Mar 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Mar 2003 19:46
Yeah, it is to do with the z axis. I asked in the Newdomer's corner and they said ity had been reported as an official bug. Whenever I rotate around the Z axis of the object, then try and rotate round the x and y, it uses the x and y of the world, not the object. I CAN get it to work if I FIX OBJECT PIVOT before rotating the x andy, then before doing the z (separately), but when I MOVE OBJECT, it just moves along the world z axis, NOT the object z axis. Do I have to start using the 3dmaths commands or somtthing? I was hoping not to have to use them :o)!

If you can help me out I would be really grateful, as that is the only thing (so far!) that is holding me back.

Dr OcCuLt
23
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Location: a Dark Deep Dark pit, it dark in here
Posted: 24th Mar 2003 23:49
try makeing your OBJECT a limb of a box then you point the box in the x,y of the world axis uesing ROTATE OBJECT and then you ues ROTATE LIMB to set the roll on you OBJECT.

--Dr 0--


Most people are other people.Their thoughts are someone else`s opinions,thier lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation
Oscar Wilde
Andy Igoe
23
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Mar 2003 00:54
I wouldn't say not a bug. It's called Gimbal Lock and it is avoidable at the engine level. The cost however, is speed.

Using roll object works on a localised rotational system instead which could solve your problems, however pre-patch 4 (and i've not tried since) roll object right/left would not work with object angle x/y/z commands, so I used to apply my rolls using an invisible plain and make use of the set object to object orientation command.

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
madbilly
23
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 25th Mar 2003 01:37
The only reason I said it was a bug was cos somebody told me it was when i posted in Newcomers corner, but if it aint then it could do with a little explaining in the manual! I've tried what both of you have said and I still can't get it to work - I can see what you mean, but I can't do it. My code is below, the Ship is what I want to move, and the Invisible is the thing to help with rolling



What am I doing wrong? I read that for free flight you have to set rotation zyx, and I've tried fix object pivot a bit, but basically what I've done is in that code.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

spooky
23
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 26th Mar 2003 00:07
I think 99% of the free-flight now works with patch 4 (about time too!)

Only problem left now is roll left and roll right command do not update the object's 'z' angle, even though it graphically rolls.

Try code below to expermient different rotates

I do believe there is now enough working for people to finally write a game!



Gronda, Gronda
madbilly
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 19:05
Thanks for that sonic.

At first it didn't work, but then I reinstalled windows twice (probably didn't have THAT much of an effect!) and installed DBPro then patched it straight to patch4 without going via patch3.1 which I did the first time round (this probably is what made the difference!).

The free flight pitch,yaw,roll commands work a treat, but I still don't undersyand about why the x,y,z rotate commands don't do what I expect them to. Is this what Gimbal Lock is? How would using the set object rotation zyx command effect this (I'll try it and find out) as it says in the manual that object must be set to this for free flight rotation instead of Euler rotation....don't think I understand! I'll wait for the tutorial to be finished, but in the mean time I can use the stuff that you did - Thanks again!
Muddleglum
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Location: New Zealand
Posted: 28th Mar 2003 01:02
It was said with classic DB, that the rotation had to be set to zyx with free flight for purposes of matching a non- free flight object's attitude to the free flying object.
It was promoted by a real maths expert whose name I last saw when checking out the blitz forums.

He claimed it was the convention ( in expert circles anyway) to calculate rotations in that order and was further able to show Lee, ( he said) how to use the order to get a reading of the x,y,z angles of a free flight object in a different way. Previously object angle z for a free flight object returned only a zero.
Which I read may again be the case ???

I had never had problems with 'setting object orientation' directly to a free flight object myself, but it is true that AFTER the change made by this guy, the angles read from a free flight object could be applied to a standard rotated object and it would take the same orientation as the free flight object. The difference then was that the angles were explicit and available for all axis rather than just 2. The x and y angles were also DIFFERENT from the previous y and x angles read from the free flight object. Previously they gave the world related direction and world related pitch -- not now.

To get these world angles now on classic one can use limb direction y (0) instead. I do not know if PRO does this correctly. There is comment that suggests not.
I personally will use, assuming i get Pro soon, a three line substitute 'projection' method to get the angles in a more appropriate form ( for flight sims)

Hope that wasn't too vague!

cheers. muddlelglum
madbilly
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 02:57
No, that was exactly the explaination I needed! Cheers :o)
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 22:46
All I know is I had rotating down to a tee before patch 4 - and now i'm going to have to sit down and boil the kettle again Shouldn't take long when I get the time I guess, part of the never-ending journey of learning...

Pneumatic Dryll, Outrageous epic cleric of EQ/Xev
God made the world in 7 days, but we're still waiting for the patch.
spooky
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th Mar 2003 00:44
Then after you have finished boiling kettle and rewritten your program to get around patch 4 free-flight fixes, patch 5 will come out and the commands will do something different again (but probably better) and you will have to rewrite again.

Gronda, Gronda
Chief Voyager
23
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Location: United States
Posted: 29th Mar 2003 03:51
Does anyone on the DBDN crew know of what patch 5 will fix and if they started on it yet? i've been thinking of getting dbpro but with all of the complaints and people speaking of rewrites, i don't know if i shoud wait to get it, because i would hate to write a program only to have to redo everything later on.

You're ate up like a soup sandwich.
madbilly
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 13:48
I'm just hoping that it will add more powerful language capabilities - I'm more used to things like C and Ada where you can define your own contructs and use them throughout the program. In DB you can have contructs but you can only pass integers, reals and strings around the pogram (arguments and return values) - it's a bit of a pain to tell you the truth! Kind of negates the purpose of being able to INCLUDE code modules.
EddieRay
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Joined: 28th Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posted: 30th Mar 2003 05:38
I agree... it'd be nice to pass things to functions other than int/string/float.
I'm sure it will mature later on. (But don't start adding language feature yet DBS! Just fix the bugs!)

I'm suprised DB doesn't even have something like the C preprocessor... #define would be handy.

CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 30th Mar 2003 06:09
INCLUDE is almost useless in dbp.

The Wendigo
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Joined: 13th Sep 2002
Location: A hole near the base of a tree in the US
Posted: 30th Mar 2003 06:44
I haven't tried z rot, but im not having any problems yet. I used the set object rotation zyx first though. Then the Turn Object and Pitch don't seem to have any probs. hope that is helpful.

1.00 GHZ processor, 256 MB RAM, GeForce 3 64MB, SB Live!, 8 cans of soda per day

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