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FPSC Classic Models and Media / Turning Poser created models into FPSC models.

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New Comers Corner
18
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Joined: 24th Mar 2006
Location: Dallas Ft.Worth USA
Posted: 30th Apr 2006 22:32
I paid nearly $200 for Poser 5 when it came out and haven't done much with it. I want to import models into FPSC. I know how to export 3dstudio models, and can turn that format into x models. The part I never did was to expost motion frames. All I want to do is fashion
"innocents" who run away when activated. I wish I knew how to do this. Any good turtorial? Please don't tell me to buy another piece of 3d software this month. I have Poser 5, and old verision of Cinema 4d, an even older version of 3ds Max. Since all of them import and export I can work from one to another. So, starting with a poser model exported to a 3ds with animation (running frames) how would I ultimately come up with a model that FPSC would recognize, and attach its coward action to? I also have the make entities from X models program, and Magic Fps.

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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 30th Apr 2006 23:51
I hate to tell you this, but I believe Poser models are way too high a poly count to be usable in the FPSC engine. Unless you can drastically reduce their poly count.

-Keith


City of Chaos
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Posted: 1st May 2006 00:35 Edited at: 1st May 2006 00:36
Unfamiliar with Poser5 but I understand it will export to 3DS, if so then you need a polygon cruncher to seriously reduce the polygons as KeithC says other wise it wont work in FPSC. You could look at Action 3D Reducer it cost $50.00 for pro version that will cut down your poly count dramaticaly, sorry to say though it is yet again another costs albeit a cheap one.

Here is [href]http://www.action3d.net/
Wesker
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Posted: 1st May 2006 00:59
How many polys is considered low enough for FPSC models?

:ull's my string:: You're reading me talk!
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gps
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Location: England
Posted: 1st May 2006 01:41
'Fraid Keith's right - I've used Poser for several years and worked with the models quite a bit. Even the 'low poly' legacy figures have details like modelled fingernails - way OTT for FPSC models.

A more fundamental problem though, is that Poser doesn't export animations data in .3DS files. It can export BVH data though, which I would imagine could be imported into 3DS Max and attached to a suitably rigged mesh.

Locrian
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Posted: 1st May 2006 02:09 Edited at: 1st May 2006 02:15
New Comers,

I use poser myself and if you look at the last post in this thread I kinda describe what I do to use poser/max/fpsc together.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=74655&b=24
Benjamin A
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Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 1st May 2006 02:37
I hate to crash your dream, but to use Poser models in FPSC would be completely illegal.

You cannot use the actual 3D models in anything else but 2D media. You are allowed to create flash, sprites, avi's and 2D images from them, but the actual 3D model itself you cannot import into any 3D enviroment or game engine.

Read the UELA agreement or whatever it's called that comes with Poser.

I've been a long time Poser user for many years now, mainly for 2D art & comics and I wish it would be possible and legal to do, but the owners of Poser have actually sued (not sure if that is spelled correctly) people using their 3D models in the past

Bored of indoor? Add outdoor to your FPSC games!
http://www.aeilkema.dds.nl/mega/index.html
Need music for your games? Check the above link also!
gps
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Posted: 1st May 2006 04:05
@benjaminA - good point... now that you mention it, I seem to remember a site getting into trouble for using Poser hair meshes on Sims figures a while back.

Locrian
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Posted: 1st May 2006 06:37
Quote: "You may use Program( poser6 stated earlier) to generate three-dimensional motion data that you can sell, distribute, and copyright provided that this data is not derived from motion data included in the Restricted Content"
( I'm not fond of any of their animations to begin with)

Quote: "I. The purpose of defining certain content as Restricted Content is to protect the Company's investment, interests, and ownership of Restricted Content. It is not the Company's policy to unreasonably restrict or inhibit any third party's creative or commercial activities. The following are Legitimate Uses of Restricted Content:

- Creating morph targets based on the Restricted Content provided that any distribution of the morph targets will not include the original mesh connectivity information(soon as any mesh from poser hits 3dmax it looses all this data). This can be in the form of data utilized with morph moving utilities or in a .CR2 file that references the original geometry but does not include the complete mesh.(I always create a whole new cr2 anyways so it loads faster/easier. No point in having a tounge morph when its something that never opens it's mouth)

- Creating texture templates derived from the Restricted Content to create new maps for either Restricted or Allowed content.

- Creating tutorials, books, or other educational materials using images of Program interface for sale, distribution, public display, etc., provided they are intended to educate users as to use of the Program, or when used under the "fair use" guidelines of US copyright law. Any other use of images of the Program interface must be approved by the Company's prior written consent.

- Creating original content (props, hair, clothing, etc.) for Restricted Content for sale, distribution, public display, etc.( gotta love the "setup room" for making complete bone structures and tieing them to a mesh)

- Creating materials (shader trees) for use with either Restricted or Allowed Content.

- Creating characters or props based on Restricted Content in proprietary file formats, where the original (or modified) geometry, texture, or other Restricted Content Files are not distributed with said characters or props. "


OK, Obviously any char I'd make would be heavily morphed and a new texture created......I can use them in animations provided I make my own which is preferable to the "sexy walk" included >.< . I'm not redistributing the original mesh in any form.....all my items are made by me........Dose either of those chars on that link I gave look like any poser figure you've ever seen?...I don't think so. Think you can pin down perhaps where the models armor or whatever came from...probly not since I've never sold it but will be soon once I finish up my site.

And I'm sure they did sue someone for using their stuff but I'm sure it was in the form of its original mesh and as blatantly ripped off as some of the ppl round here selling car models.

In closing on your lil rant there, I think perhaps you need to read that EULA prior to "crashing" my dreams. You said nothing to help this man with his question.

Yes you can use poser in conjunction with FPSC provided you make your own meshes. I prefer to make my basics in 3dmax then subdivided the mesh in zbrush to up the poly count and do the texturing and any sculpting(this I'm just starting to do)but all can be done in the 3dmax ver you said you had. I have posted a link, somewhere in the media forum, to a great texture resource site much on the line of 3d.sk. From there you can set it up in poser with bones system and poser has a much easier to use animation system then like 3dmax( even though 3dmax isn't killer, theres allot less steps in poser). Poser makes a wonderful place to do your cut scenes in since the rendering takes much less time then a complicated max scene. Yes poser can be a lil boggy at times but if you've ever tried rendering an avi of a complicated scene in 3dmax using all the shaders and scripts to get it to look decent poser seems allot faster. Ive seen pro modelers say crap like they used 2 dual whatever processor computers and it took 8 hours to render like 1 frame.......I just don't have that kinda time to tie up my network for crystal clear images for a game with no save function I couldn't sell if I wanted to.
New Comers Corner
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Posted: 1st May 2006 15:30
Hi again. Okay, given the frightening threat of being sued by Poser, I'm pretty sick of them anyway. In the first place thier $200 product seemed slow to render, given that the poser five figures had hair with seemingly thousands of lines which had to be rendereded, and generally, it seemed so much less user friendly than Poser 4 I wanted to sell it immediately, only to discover I was threatened by Poser for trying to sell the original cd and book! That aside, what about using animations from Character studio, which I'm breaking down and buying, namely free use of them in video games, and two, sorry again to be so ignorant, but where can I get basic civilian figures in low polygons in 3ds format. All the models around seem to have huge holsters or space boots. (I'm trying to make a rescue the hostages type of game. I'm stubborn, I'll finish it).

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 1st May 2006 15:30
Sure you can create your own mesh, but I just pointed out you cannot use poser models. These's a huge difference between importing your own models into Poser or using the Poser models that are included in Poser.

Quote: "Dose either of those chars on that link I gave look like any poser figure you've ever seen?"


Actually yes.... the woman reminds me a lot of DAZ's Victoria 3.

Bored of indoor? Add outdoor to your FPSC games!
http://www.aeilkema.dds.nl/mega/index.html
Need music for your games? Check the above link also!
Locrian
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Posted: 1st May 2006 20:00 Edited at: 1st May 2006 20:42
But your missing the point. You dont have to create a whole new mesh. Zbrush discribes it best when they call all .obj files "tools". With your resoning you couldnt put much of anything in FPSC cause the cylinder you used for a gun barrel belonged to max or the square or whatever( on that resoning if you look at the poser primatives and you see the box....dose poser now have the copyright on a square?). Look at the image below. It's poser 5 woman low poly with a high poly mesh exported from zbrush with 4 times the polys and bigger boobs and a lil more junk in the trunk( cause daddy likes a big ole butt)imported right on top. This new mesh contains not one common vertices. The map of course surely wouldnt work either.



And to answer the Vic3 actually everything was modeled for a modified Vic2. Pretty much any females going to look the same but again the mesh was completely redone to suit what I wanted from the char. And I never use the hair from poser. The image of the hair on that model in that one post was just so I could see how longer hair looked wile posing and whatnot. Its the primal windy hair but for my renders thats removed and a bald render is done cause painting the hair comes out allot better/thicker.

My point is use it as a tool..... It's a shortcut and someone would be hard pressed to find any referances to any original model. I have many body shapes I have saved as a jumping off point. A fat man may end up an ogre with a lil zbrush morphing. A skinny child may end up a very slender and tall sprite/elf...same as a box and some cylinders ends up a gun.
New Comers Corner
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Posted: 1st May 2006 20:28
*********** I'm considering some good looking "low polygon" people models on Turbosquid. Can you use them legally in your own games? Then possibly sell the game without getting sued? I know you're thinking the liklihood of my finishing a saleable game with FPSC is nil, but I have a marketing angle, a funny game and a low buying price planned. Hell, the FPSC stuff looks way better than a lot of crap games out there they're selling. Okay back to the question, can you use the human models sold by Turbosquid legally? Have to be sure about this before I blow $50.

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Locrian
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Posted: 1st May 2006 21:57
Without wanting to read turbos EULA I'd have to say no, without changing the model. Or at least contacting the original modeler for permision to use "as is". Regardless of what any EULA states once the models changed theres no way to tie it back to any anyones IP(intellectual property)and therefore no way for you to be sued. Once again as long as your using the model like a "primitive" and none of the original data lines up, or carries over, the mesh is now technically yours. Theres absolutely nothing stopping others from using your,now revamped, mesh in much the same manner. Long as the mesh isn't the same, and obviously you'd have to make a new texture map since vertices are now different, whos to say where it came from. I may seem like a pirate with my last few post but I'm not. I don't see it that way. Though Poser credits a few companies in their EULA like Daz and so on they certainly don't give any credit to 3dmax/Maya/ect that was originally used to make these figures. I consider this very much along the same lines. The mesh is a tool...nothing more or less, and a team of computer geeks and laywers couldn't prove any different with some added geometry/vertices/polys. No more then anyone could tell if a gun was modeled in 3dmax or maya or milkshape. Just cause some ones got the patent on a hammer doesn't mean I need their permission to build a house. Their end result was the tool which I can't take. My end result is what I did with these tools, just like if my games are de compiled the next person would then have to change my stuff as to not impede on my IP. The EULA basically protects the technology used to create the file types. That cant be copied or used in any form without the companies who's tech you borrowed from retaining rights to that code as well. File extensions cant be copyrighted such as body.obj or body.max. A good case for this was Blizzard Entertainments suit vs the makers of a .MPQ extractor. MPQ, now I forget, partially stands for the name of the guy that came up with this method of compressing files for a smaller size and is used in most blizzard games(starcraft/diablo/warcraft). This suit failed, but blizzard was able to latter sue the same people for emulation software that mirrored code used for the servers. This emulator was so ppl could set up private servers for play but this Blizz was able to win on this note.
(Site with the blizz controversy)
http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/

At some point that site links to a page that tells about the original suit over the mpq, but I cant remember the string and dont feel like spending time looking.
New Comers Corner
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Posted: 1st May 2006 23:46
Thank you Lorican, that seems like a sane reply, altho the needed steps are still fuzzy. I'll reread some of the earlier posts in this topic to find out how to reduce a 3ds model to less polygons. What if you start with a poser 2 model? That has less to begin with, right? So, I need a program to reduce the number of Polygons. And then, the mesh is legal, but it needs a new texuremap. Thanks for your reply. It saved me spendng money on the Turbosquid people set.

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New Comers Corner
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Posted: 1st May 2006 23:51
Me again. I also meant to ask if someone will sell me a low polygon model of a girl in a school skirt. Ahem, for hostage purposes only. I need a model to show her bound in handcuffs, the running away when she's freed. If she could kiss the rescuer on the cheek it would be a big plus, but actually, I can easily do that animation in Poser and include it as a cut scene. I can change the hair color to look like different girls rescued. Skirt, typical school plad, whatever you got. Thats why I thought the Squid set was perfect, it has a "preppy" in saddle shoes and a school skirt.

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