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dabidos
23
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Posted: 26th Mar 2003 22:26 Edited at: 26th Mar 2003 22:30
Is it possible for the DarkBASIC Pro engine, to create or emulate true Cell Shading. I'm not asking about the black outline around models which doubles the model's pc. I'm just wondering if DarkBASIC could make a Cell Shading Engine. And if anybody has a link on or knows how true cell shading works, please do post it. Thanks in advance.

Absolut

Absolut Gosu
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 22:51
'set cartoon shading on'

Although I still can't get a working outline for some reason Its certainly possible tho. You need a GF3 or 4.

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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lcfcfan
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 22:55
me neither kangaroo

2ghz, ati radeon mobility 32mb DDR, 30gb, 256mb DDR ram, Win Xp
Rob K
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Posted: 27th Mar 2003 23:38
Cell shading, if I understand correctly, works by using flat textures on the object, and changing the way that the surface responds to light so that it does not look 3D (look at a 3D sphere in DBP, it has a clear gradient which visually makes it look 3D, cell shading disables this). Cell shading also highlights certain edges of the model using a given edge image (normally a black line) - this adds / enhances the cartoony effect.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
Steverino
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 00:37
I'm not getting an outline either, but it does a fine job flattening the asteroid demo down to two colors (mostly one color until you move the light source to the side for deep shadows).

Also, a GeForce 4 MX won't work, you need the GF 4 Ti.

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 11:28
Glad its not just me... Wonder if this is a bug or just something we're not seeing?

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 14:50
The outline is not provided for you, you have to make it yourself. This would usually involve changing the thickness of the line in the 3D renderer, which we don't have access to, so you either use the model method OR you ditch the black line. If you've seen newer cell-shading games, Zelda, That raccoon one... they don't use black lines much (not that I've seen anyway)

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 16:30 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 17:17
An easy but high poly way is to clone your object, flip all it's face normals, color it flat black (or whatever color you want your outline) and then scale that object a touch bigger. You can vary the outline by scaling the normal-flipped object.
Like I said it's twice the poly's but it gets the right result, wait, I did my retro entry intro text this way, I'll post a screenie

[edit post]

O.k it's up in the beta announcements under retro GC entry.

The text has been treated the way I've mentioned above. I don't have DB pro, but it's not really an issue with the software, it's the way you model it. This screenie is from dbc anyways.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Steverino
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 17:28
That's more like a thin black aura around the whole object, though. Cel shading should also use edge-detection to put lines between color changes (like where sleeve meets arm) and where part of the model is at a different depth than another part even if they're the same color. Look at the fingers in the example below, done in Hash Animation:Master.



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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 17:39 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 17:42
Well Like I said I don't have DbPro, but if it can take care of those details, the above method will give you the outline that people seem to be complaining about, it's actually quite sharp without the jpeg compression

If you mess about with that method you could acheive these effects you're talking about also, you'd just have to get more detailed with your scaling. Try it with a simple set of objects, clone them all, enlarge the clone, flip it's face normals, color it how you want (or texture it for finer effects, then get down to vertex mode and adjust edges like her T-shirt "cuff" to be closer to the original "smaller object. It'd be a bastard to uvmap, but would get the results if dbpro can't do it for you. Like I said though It'll increase your polycount

[edit post]

Oh I get it, you mean like in my example how there's no outline on the inside of the "D"? That's only because I didn't put it there, If I were to drag the vertices' of the cloned/flipped/scaled "D" out a bit I could make an outline there too, and of any thickness. It's not rendered cell shading by any means, but it works for real time stuff.

Maybe I'll do a quick example and post it here

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 18:16 Edited at: 28th Mar 2003 18:21
O.K now I only spent a 'couple of minutes here, but the effect would be pretty neat if you were prepared to spend a few hours



Just a matter of dragging some vertices to get the effect right, like where it should be black under that middle finger, I 'aint got time though, gotta get back to my game hope this helps

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
Steverino
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Posted: 28th Mar 2003 23:51
That does look really good!

(Had to do a View Source & paste the url into the address bar to see it, BTW.)

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 00:34
It shows up fine for me, and looks pretty nice.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 29th Mar 2003 11:05
Thanx guys

steverino : Yeah I don't know why but freewebs is a little dodgy that way, anyhow, you get what I mean, but like I said doing it that way requires double the poly's which is why I only used it on the intro text (I'm using DBC). With DB pro, I guess you have that extra oomph that makes it worthwhile using it on a main character. I'm gonna have to get DBpro soon I guess...

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.

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