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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / is it possible to create games without direct x being around

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Terabyte
23
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Joined: 28th Dec 2002
Location: UK
Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 22:00
just a question

Is it possible to create games (3d games) without the presence of direct x i dont mean on dark basic pro. obviously it says that you need direct x. i mean on programing languages like c++, can you write a game without direct x around or does direct x have to be present for any 3d game?
I have a word of advice...
..don't piss on an electric fence!
Terabyte
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 22:02
in other words is it essential with c++ or is it just an enhancer that will give your games better performance

I have a word of advice...
..don't piss on an electric fence!
Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 22:24
You can use OpenGL as an alternative.

However, in short, DirectX / OpenGL just ensure that your game works with as many PCs as possible, previously, there used to be no end of headaches with different setups.

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.
zenassem
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Location: Long Island, NY
Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 22:35
First let me say, "yes", it is possible. There are a few options(and more) that you have available. For instance you could use openGL. The reason that you would want to use either directX or openGL is so that you can take advantage of the hardware acceleration and effects processing that is provided on the Video card. Now, given the fact that their are possibly thousands of video cards in use today, (all/most are directX or/and openGL compatable), it would be a daunting task to write specific code/drivers for each of these cards. This is why developers use Directx or openGL. Keep in mind that most professional 3d apps today require Hardware acceleration. But this does not mean that you can't write a 3d app without hardware acceleration.

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 2nd Apr 2003 22:53
There were some excellent an quite powerful 3d engines for DOS games around years ago with great compatibility rates, and didn't use any hardware acceleration or direct x / open gl. I specifically remember 3drealms games as being impressive, the archtechture in Duke Nuken 3d and the landscapes and tunnels in Terminal Velocity were very nice, but enemies, trees etc were still scaled plains or sprites. One of the most impressive fully 3d games I saw in DOS was FXFighter, a Virtua Fighter clone originally slated for release on the SNES's fx chip but eventually deamed too powerful for it (un surprisingly, looking at the other fx games like Starwing and stunt race fx)

Nowadays though I wouldn't recommend doing anything 3d without using direct x. It'll be faster, more compatible and much quicker to develop with I can't fathom OpenGL for Toffee (plus it doesn't deal with sound from what I can tell)

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Terabyte
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 17:48
AHA THanks aloot

I have a word of advice...
..don't piss on an electric fence!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 17:59
Yes, OpenGL more wierd the Direct3D...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Darth Coder
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:33
I've used both Direct3D and OpenGL in the past and my choice is clearly OpenGL.

While Direct3D now isn't as bad as it was in the first versions it's still very... microsoft. I mean the programming style not just the fact that obviously it runs only on windows while OpenGL is cross platform. You have to deal with a lot of stuff that just gets in the way. OpenGL is more straight to the point.

There are however a few limitations in OpenGL so it's hard to use the capabilities of latest gfx cards (shaders and such). But OpenGL 2.0 fixes that. I'm not sure if it's ready for prime time yet, I haven't followed what happened in the last few months.

So currently I'd suggest Direct3D only if you really need to use the very latest features. If not OpenGL, it's easier, makes much cleaner code and will allow your code to work on multiple platforms.

"You don't know the power of the Dark Side." - Darth Vader
EddieRay
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Location: USA
Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 18:34
No... OpenGL is an "open standard" and is not innundated with stupid COM stuff (IUnknown this, Interface that - M$ CRAP!). That fact in itself makes OpenGL less "silly" to program. All that COM stuff just gets in the way when you're trying code up some polygons. M$ is completel COM-happy and someone should stop them.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 20:09
Personally i prefer DirectX, more on i actually strongly prefer the new DirectX 8.1/9.0 interface instructions ... its alot more code and is much more daunting to start with, but infinately more in the way of features to help development.

That aside you don't need to really use either DirectX, OpenGL, Glide or Open3D ... atleast for your 3D stuff. All they really do is stop you recreating the proverbial 3D wheel everytime you restart development...
you don't have to create your own drivers for cards and such, which really was started with that display program - ack can't remember the name right now, but if you wanted to use any particular features in graphics cards you needed it. was before 3D really... i keep thinking SGI Display but i know that not right. I'm sure someone remembers it.

However that aside, this is only for programming a 3D Engine, unfortunatly what people who use OpenGL tend to forget is that - Networking, Media (like Sound), Controls, etc... are all contained within DirectX and so they end up not only spending longer on getting these functions to work, but also the be compatible with each other as oftenly the libraries you find online conflict with each other... whereas Dx you know it'll work fully functional with all its aspects from the word go. This is the most major reason it is used over anything else.

but still all that aside, there are quite a few pre-OpenGL/DirectX game engines out there - and infact the Quake engine is one of the few out there which shows you true cross platforming + the upgrade steps taken to use both DirectX and OpenGL
if you're every thinking about developing a game that is probably one of the best places to start, because it also teaches you to read the most incomprehendable code you'll ever see (apart from your own)
and the spare comments require you to learn what things learn than stealing them for your own purposes (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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pugmartin
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 20:34
I know which one you mean Raven. think it was SCI Display Doctor. Useful too

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Can anyone post me a banana?
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2003 20:37
thats the one... i loved that tool

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Rob K
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Posted: 4th Apr 2003 00:47
"Personally i prefer DirectX"

... and he's not saying that because of the brown envelopes MS send him on a regular basis.

Personally although I like the fact that DirectX is an all-in-one solution, the code setup and the whole structure of the thing are pretty messy - although not as bad as the [shudder]Windows API[shudder]

Current Project: Retro Compo. Entry.

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