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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Hello, level design?

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Pus In Boots
18
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Joined: 5th Nov 2005
Location: S.M.I.L.E. industries
Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 19:15
Too often I've heard about FPSC games on the forums, too often ive been dissapointed by shoddy, substandard level design. Now I dont pretend to be a master at level design, but there is a certain level of skill that needs to be integrated into the quality of levels. But moving away from "moany old grandpa/critique" perspective, I'd like to say this and simply this.

Where are the good level designers?

You don't have to be insane to answer my questions, but it helps

visit www.gameshell.tk
Les Horribres
18
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 19:27
Dead. Killed by FPSC.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
SpyDaniel
18
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 19:58
Nah, I kicked FPSC in the nuts, now I have it asa pet under my bed; I still have half of my brain to level dustbin.


KeithC
Senior Moderator
18
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 20:11
If you want to see some good examples of what a few people are up to, check out these links:

NIK's Thread

Bird of Prey

Keith


Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 00:17
The reasons of bad level designs are:

1)People rush to much at it
2)Mostly it are n00bs here presenting their "Game" wich i'd like to call Junk.
3)Some just trow Sci-fi,modernday and WW2 together!!!
4)Most just use Stock media(i aint telling it cant be good with stock only)


Many tales has bein told about me,and there where i came from.Most bad ones are true.The good ones are false...
Les Horribres
18
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 00:18
Stockmedia is okay, you just need to manage it propperly.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 00:19
Thats why i said that
Quote: "(i aint telling it cant be good with stock only)"
thing.


Many tales has bein told about me,and there where i came from.Most bad ones are true.The good ones are false...
Les Horribres
18
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 00:26 Edited at: 4th Jul 2006 00:27
Uhh... are you originally english? Because that does read as contrary to my point.
Ugg, I hate slang.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
uman
Retired Moderator
19
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Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 01:28 Edited at: 4th Jul 2006 01:30
I have seen some really good FPSC screen shots of some peoples work to be fair.

I think of myself as a pretty good game designer though without doubt there are many better - with respect before asking for someone else to show us how it can be done. We, myself included need to perhaps lead the way - but thats not at all the point.

To be honest FPSC is designed as a click and play game making environment and many users have shown a great deal of ingenuity in many ways already in pushing the boundaries of it in many different ways - level design included.

That kind of user is always going to be in a minority and is so at any indie game making arena.

As far as advanced level design goes currently thats almost a non starter for 10 as the editor and engine and its issues are just too restrictive. With enough hard work and effort - say some considerable number of years of it - you could possibly achieve high quality content throughout but I dont know that you can expect FPSC to run it without grinding to a hault - even with the most vigorous optimisation methods.

Firstly the current map object and script limits will make it impossible to achieve anything like a modern advanced game title quality and will quickly stop your game dev dead. Apart from anything else - while they exist it cant be done.

FPSC is a good engine in many respects - those that its good at - like painting straight walls - very good at that.

As anything like an advanced level design and game creation system it falls well short in most respects required to meet with modern gamemaking standards.

Out of the box, FPSC is an FPS Quake 2 kinda style and quality game makeing product - minus those things it cant do that a Quake 2 editor can and some perhaps that they cant. So its not really designed for or capable of advanced game creation as it stands.

Those who want to push the boundaries can do quite a lot to improve the kind of game that can be made with it - but ask anyone who is already working with advanced game design with FPSC and they will tell you how hard it is to achieve - everyone knows that this is the case so I dont know why people ask this question.

Making an advanced game with great level design as suggested takes many years of hard work so you are not going to see big strides in the short term with an engine which does not have the capabilities, functions and features to easily allow it to be achieved.

Shear hard work and a lot of effort will return results for only a few.

As said I have seen many good looking screen shots of levels and games people have worked on and I applaud them all for their hard work and endeavours and wish them the best of luck and success with their future gamemaking.

I do hope that all users will see an improvement in the product to the benefit of the games made with it.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
Candle_
18
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Joined: 29th May 2006
Location: kindergarten
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 02:10
You have a balance of good level design and game play.
It is hard to have both when the FPS can drop so fast with one or two more items added.

Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 09:00
Quote: "Uhh... are you originally english? Because that does read as contrary to my point.
Ugg, I hate slang.
"


no im dutch.


Many tales has bein told about me,and there where i came from.Most bad ones are true.The good ones are false...
Benjamin A
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Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 10:33
Many who've tried the demo of my game, Commander Josh, or bought the full version, tell me the level design is excellent, so feel free to check it out at my website.

But.... if you're looking for the next AAA+ fps with awesome level design, you're simply looking in the wrong place. FPSC just cannot handle it. FPSC has it's limits and every level designer is bound to those limits. With my level design, I did try to make them as complex as possible and yet keep the game playable. That is a major challenge in FPSC. You can create very complex levels, but you may end up with a game that is unplayable. I've tried to find the balance and I've think I did a good jub on it. Good level design, without loosing playability.

As for the demo, it has 2 levels. The first one is a traininglevel, so it's not to complext at all. Once you make it through the training (which is easy to do), you enter a real level, imo showing what FPSC is capable of achieving when you put time and effort into it.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Location: Michigan
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 16:44
Forgot to list yours, sorry Ben.


Van B
Moderator
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 17:04
Takes time to learn how to design levels, a long time.

It took about 18 months before I knew SEUCK inside and out, and FPSC is a lot more complex than that.

Really you guys are the level designers, practice, get good, enter the competitions, practice, experiment, repeat.

One tip would be to never sit and decide to start writing a game, sit and start messing with level ideas for a game, but don't get bogged down with detail - get your level designed how you like then add detail, but most importantly remember that you only get good at something by doing it over and over - nobody should feel bad about the 100+ FPSC games they start but never finish, because each one counts towards your skills in some way or other.

Aegrescit medendo
Megaton Cat
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Joined: 24th Aug 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: 4th Jul 2006 17:46
Level Design with FPSC is very limited from what I've seen. You don't get quite as much freedom to design vertically and people are relying far too much on pre-made meshes rather then creating their own. (Which FPSC does not let you do in-editor) So that's why most FPSC game levels look the same.

Can't really complain for a Drag 'n Drop engine.


New Catfolio.net coming soon!
Les Horribres
18
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Joined: 20th Nov 2005
Location: My Name is... Merry
Posted: 5th Jul 2006 07:08
i aint telling. it cant be good with stock only

Try I am not saying it can't be good. When reading fast I tend to add words instead of fix words, in this case I read it as

i aint telling why, it cant be good with stock only.

Mainly separating the telling from the "it can't be good" which screwed the message up.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
Essal
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Joined: 15th Jan 2006
Location: inside your webcam, watching YOU.
Posted: 5th Jul 2006 10:33
too much to read....arg...*falls on the floor and spasms*

He Who Visits The FPSC Forum, Returns 10 minuters later, to see whats new.
Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 5th Jul 2006 11:37
What is Spasms?

a typo of Spams?


Many tales has bein told about me,and there where i came from.Most bad ones are true.The good ones are false...
SpyDaniel
18
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Joined: 4th Feb 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 5th Jul 2006 12:46
A spasm is a sudden, involuntary contraction of a muscle, a group of muscles, or a hollow organ, or a similarly sudden contraction of an orifice. A spasm is usually accompanied by a sudden burst of pain. Spasmodic muscle contraction may be due to a large number of medical conditions, including the dystonias.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spasms


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