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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator need glasses!

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Mr Love
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 05:42
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Tryed some new objects today in FPSC. The textures wasnt perfect, but quite good! When looking at the objects inside FPSC it looked like a diffrent object than I made inside C4D! The object was so blurry so You almost courldnt see what it was! This has been a big problem a long time for FPSC and huge textures is the only fix for it. But I shourldnt call it a fix, when looking at TGCs FPSC textures the quality is real high, but still it dosnt looks real sharp in the games! Blur blur blur and maybe also bad rendering. It looks a little bit better when You disable the dynamic lights, but its not enought! And when You remove the dynamic lights the gun dont light up in a light area. And dont get darker in a dark area, that looks pretty strange! Please get a fix for the bluriness...

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bond1
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 06:07
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This is not a FPSC issue at all, just turn on anisotropic filtering on your video card. Without it it textures WILL look like crap. I have mine set at 4x anisotropic filtering and just 2x AA and everything looks nice and crisp.

Plus, the redered output from a 3d app will always look better than a real-time game engine.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 06:25
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I play other games with a perfect sharp picture! This is not a settings problem, this is inside the engine. Take a look at things a distance away and things are even more blurry! Im sure couse another cheap fps creator has a mutch sharper picture. In FPSC 1024x1024 textures looks like they are not bigger than 256x256. (What a waste of memory!) The problem must be in the source code couse I made a DBP fps game and the picture was ten times better and sharper!

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FredP
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 07:43 Edited at: 15th Jul 2006 07:43
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I have gotten some textures to look pretty good in FPSC and I have a crappy PC and a crappy video card.
I think the texture on the model in the pic below looks good.
I can tell it's a box of Rice Krispies.
Have you tried static lighting and full lightmapping?I have gotten some pretty good results.

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bond1
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 15:31 Edited at: 15th Jul 2006 15:37
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No, the problem isn't "inside the engine". I don't have the blurry texture problem. Just covering my bases- do you have the texture settings for FPSC set to their highest level? And you also didn't mention your video card settings. Lots of retail games will make the settings for you, but for FPSC, set up a profile to use your video card's goodies like anisotropic filtering.


Quote: "Take a look at things a distance away and things are even more blurry!"


Nope, not for me. This tells me you DON'T have your video card's settings correct. With anisotropic filtering far away textures don't turn to mush.

I tell you what, make a simple map, take a screenshot and post both the screenie and the .fpm here. I'll take my own screenshot of the same map and we'll compare the two.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 19:02
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Answers To:

FredP: I have got very nice results also Fred. If Your textures are perfect and very sharp, things looks good when You are very close to the object. (As in the picture..) But if You back off just a few meters away things are starting to look unacceptable blurry, even with good textures. I just belive that people dont think about it couse they are used to it. Look at the ground, its sharp were You stand but not a few meters away. And how come that My DBP FPS dont have the same problem?

bond1: I think You are just used to the blur. Thats why You cant see it. I guess You almost use TGC segments that use HUGE textures! (That also slows down the game.) Well, with HUGE textures it looks ok -but not good! I have perfect sharpness in My DBP FPS game! How do You explain that?
You ask if I use the highest FPSC settings. Ofcourse I do! Are You nuts or something that belive that is the graphic-card when playing games all the time with perfect sharpness!!! I played the latest game made in CSP and the graphic was amazing... I have also seen complains by others about this problem, so Im not the only one that have complained about this!

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Nigezu
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 21:35
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OK here is a pic for you. It is same corridor with Anisotrophic Filtering on and off. You see the differense? No blur when AF is on. When it's off there is blur. You see it's not about source code, it's about your video card settings.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 15th Jul 2006 22:02
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Yes, I agree it looks a little bit better. But if You are going to sell Your games, what are You going to tell Your customers when the picture looks very blurry? That they have to do some graphic-card settings before playing the game? And You cant even do it in the Menu!? Have never played any professional games that need thoose setting changes.. TGC shourld use the ordinary DBP video settings and dont mix with the picture becouse it will only make the picture looks worse! I dont need to make video-card settings when playing My DBP FPS Game, and still the picture is perfect! A little bit sharper picture wourld make the games look alot better! Its all I ask for...

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 01:57 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 01:58
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No I'm not used to the blur, because I don't have any. You STILL haven't mentioned your graphics card settings.

And yes retail games NEED these settings too, but they WILL make the settings for you. Just tell all your "customers" they need to set their graphics card settings for optimal quality. It's really no big deal, my ATI card has a control panel that makes it really easy. You can even set up different profiles for different apps.

And many of the latest games use 1024 textures, or even 2048. Many of FPSC's textures are 512.

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FredP
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 05:12
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I have
256MB of RAM
A crappy Intel graphics card
And textures show up just fine on my pc if I set FPSC to hi-res.
Maybe it's something you did or a setting you changed or need to change.
Don't assume just because something doesn't work for you it is a bug.
That happens a lot and sometimes either the forum member made a mistake or made some kind of change.
Bond makes the model packs for FPSC so I defer to his expertise on this.
Do what he says.He is the expert.

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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 07:38
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Shockwave 3D is another app that doesn't communicate directly to the video card, so you have to manually change the settings on the video card. Really it's no big deal, anyone but the most casual pc gamer wouldn't know how to pimp out the graphics settings.

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Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 09:18 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 09:19
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Quote: "Im sure couse another cheap fps creator has a mutch sharper picture"


Use that engine then. All you seem to do recently is come in here to say something else is wrong with the engine that needs fixing. Then when somebody tries to help you get all defensive and tell them to get their facts straight, blah, blah, blah.



Quote: "The problem must be in the source code couse I made a DBP fps game and the picture was ten times better and sharper!"


Please also explain, if you are so capable with DBP as to make your own FPS engine, why are you using FPSC? If I was able to code my own FPS Game I would. That way I could be sure of getting everything I wanted.

Quote: "But if You are going to sell Your games, what are You going to tell Your customers when the picture looks very blurry? That they have to do some graphic-card settings before playing the game?"


Yes, that's exactly what you tell them. They'll only have to change the settings once not everytime they play. Maybe instead of being so stubborn you should just CHANGE YOUR VIDEO CARD SETTINGS. THEN if it still looks blurry say it's the engine.

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Nigezu
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 13:25
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If you don't have a program that changes video card settings, download it from www.ati.com for ATI cards and from www.nvidia.com for NVidia cards.

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uman
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 13:58 Edited at: 16th Jul 2006 14:03
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I can understand wht Mr love is saying.

FPSC does not have the sharpest or best visual texture representation around on screen, but thats to be expected.

There are many reasons that contribute to this as well as those pointed out.

In fact textures should blur somewhat at distance as thats how humans see things in reality and it adds to the feel of perspective. Eagles can see detail at great distances - humans cant , not that you have great distances in FPSC but enough to need a feel of perspective.

Of course in FPSC as in many engines, blurring can occur also if you are very close to an object and turn to observe the texture of say a wall that you are right up against. Thats typical of most games.

These instances of blurring are also a factor of game engine camera settings - and I prseume that FPSC has some specified in source. Nothing unusual there.

FPSC overall is reasonable in this area.

However you should not expect an end user to have to adjust any setting external to your game programme and if adjustments are possible then they should be adjustable as with most visual things from menus within the game. e.g. ambient lighting, screen resolution.

I am not saying one should expect a prog of the status of FPSC to have such user controls built in, but neither will game players expect to have to play around with their video card settings or anything else external to the game to make adjustments.

You can say its easy - but very few game users in reality will be prepared to do it. They will just get on with it and play the game and adjudge the quality of graphics and your game by and large by the defaults the game designer has supplied.

In other words they may moan about it but will do nothing to change anything - thats they way the mass of humans are in general and that includes many of the of end users FPSC games will be aimed at.




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bond1
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 15:54
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Hmm, I don't know if I agree with that. PC gamers are a different breed than console gamers. They know their hardware intimately. I believe anyone who has ever bought their own graphics card knows how to get the most out of it...that is, adjust the 3d settings.

Maybe I'm just extra geeky.

Ahh well, the point has been made.

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xplosys
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 16:23
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Why would you buy a $50.00 game engine made for people with no coding/modeling/design experience if you wanted to make and sell professional quality games? The pictures on the box should have given it away.

Would you buy a Volkswagen to race at Indy and then complain that it won't keep up?

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Nigezu
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Posted: 16th Jul 2006 20:16
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I agree with bond1. I personally change my video card settings all the time to get best performance and quality. Many times there aren't options like x6 anti-aliasing or x16 anisothrophic filtering in the game's own video options.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 17th Jul 2006 04:31
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Thraxas:
"Use that engine then."
Answer:
That engine (CSP) is way to slow, otherwise I wourld have used it..
Thraxas:
"if you are so capable with DBP as to make your own FPS engine, why are you using FPSC?"
Answer:
Becouse I hate the programming part. (To be capable isnt the same thing as like what You do!)

I agree with uman! If You are dumb enought to expect that the end users will do grapic card changes just becouse of one game, then You wont even sell a single copy of Your games!

FPSC is made with Darkbasic Pro that has very nice and sharp picture without doing any changes with the engine! My advice to TGC is to use the basic DBP picture settings and then We dont need to use extreme Graphic card settings that some people here think is great and others think it is an effective way to scare away "customers"..

If I bought a game and discovered that the game was blurry, then I wourld be quite mad! And I am probably not the only one. A Person that buys a game shourld be able to play the game as it is, and not be forced to change important hardware settings that You maybe dont want to change!

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FredP
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Posted: 17th Jul 2006 04:53
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Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase!That is like saying every PC should have the same graphics card.They don't.I know that if the graphics don't look good then I have to adjust my graphics settings for that game.
And if someone wants to play a game they will have no problem adjusting the settings.
These games are made for PC users.While the average console player might not want to or know how to adjust settings the average PC gamer should.
And maybe if instructions are included with the game or the player is given options (like in FPSPack where you can change the screen resolution) it would even make things simpler.
To me it sounds like an excuse.Like saying FPSC looks crappy with regular lighting.Yeah,it kind of does,but you can add lighting and get some good results.
And don't forget that when you build the game there are three resolution settings for the graphics...and they can make a big difference in what is or is not blurry.
FPSC is an engine that requires a boatload of tiny adjustments.
When you add,subtract or change something you have to go through and make sure it works with everything else and make whatever adjustments are necessary.
I personally think TGC has more important things to worry about and that the FPSC users have higher priorities than this when it comes to an upgrade.
In the end we can debate until we drop dead but whether a game is good or not depends on the developer making it not on the engine.



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Mr Love
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Posted: 17th Jul 2006 06:24
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A boatload of adjustments? It is the texture reducers 128,256,512, lightmapping and shaders. I wourldnt call that a boatload? FPSC needs more of them to make the games more personal...

I am Myself a Playstation 2 player and most of them who play consoles also have a PC (Most persons has that nowdays.)
Many of us here at the forum knows how to change the graphic settings couse most of us spend alot of time in front of a comp. Customers today has so many games to choose from so You almost can blame them to be spoiled brats! They install their games, and do the screen settings in the Options menu then they press start game. The gamers are not like You and Me who likes to mess with our comps. Its possible that TGC dosnt listen to this, but then We have the source code that can help us to reduce the very blurry picture..

It seems like We has diffrent opinions here, and it is nothing wrong about that. But if You say something negative about FPSC here, some people are going crazy and that is pretty sad couse You cant make a change if You dont talk about it!
FPSC has many bugs, and the most people around here knows it.. The blurry picture is not a bug though. But a fix of this problem wourld make FPSC so mutch better!

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Nigezu
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Posted: 17th Jul 2006 12:54 Edited at: 17th Jul 2006 12:55
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Look at the pic of Battlefield 2 that is a commercial game.
Ground looks really blurry because max. AF that you can apply in game's own settings is x4. If you want sharper textures you need to apply x8 or even x16 AF from your video card settings.
No one complains about blurriness because game is so good or players have used to change their video card settings.


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Mr Love
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Posted: 18th Jul 2006 00:45
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Quite a diffrence if You can change it inside the game. (In the Options Menu.) Anyway, look at the ground in front of the car, its not that blurry. The road in the background is blurry, but it shall look like that. If this wourld have been FPSC the ground in front of the car shourld have looked VERY blurry, so this picture is very sharp compare to FPSC... The basic picture can be better in FPSC, and this change courld be done very easy. If TGC dont fix it I will do it Myself...


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Thraxas
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Posted: 18th Jul 2006 02:57 Edited at: 18th Jul 2006 02:57
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Quote: "If You are dumb enought to expect that the end users will do grapic card changes just becouse of one game, then You wont even sell a single copy of Your games!"


I myself am not trying to sell games. Just doing this for fun, I enjoy creating things. If, however, I was serious about making a game I wished to sell I wouldn't use FPSC. I know people have sold games with it, and some people in the future will probably sell games too.

Hardcore PC gamers who want to squeeze every ounce of performance out of their graphics cards are going to change the settings. You don't spend thousands of dollars on a kick ass graphics card and then let it's potential go to waste by not manually changing settings. Casual gamers who play games on their pc and also own a console have been spoilt by the simplicity of their console. You stick in the disc and away you go. Console programmers also know exactly what hardware their end user is going to be using as it is the same for all. Programming for pc can never be that simple as there as so many combinations out there. What may look and run fantastic on one system will look rubbish on another. PCs have never been simple for playing games. Windows has also spoilt people to a certain extent making it easier to play games out of the box. It hasn't always been like this for PC gamers. I remember back in the days of DOS. If you didn't want to change settings back then you wouldn't be playing some games at all.

I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with you. I feel this is an issue that we will never see eye to eye on.

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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 18th Jul 2006 14:58
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What Ever!!!

The "distance blur textures" on (duh) the textures is it, so your pc uses less memory, making less lag, making it so low end pcs are able to run smoothly FPSC games.

The only reason we "don't" have an option to change the *LODviewdistance* (for easy understanding: blur view distance) is becouse TGC released FPSC too prematurely (why they released so early? i don't know, and i don't care, i only wish they had spent 1 or 2 more years to make everything, i could wait, you could wait, everyone could, but, this has nothing to do with this topic, sooo.......).



Unfortunally, they didn't add any command (or almost) for easy editing by us, users.


Anyway, don't forget to look into your built game cfg file, you'll find wonders in there, evan a way to change the blur distance

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 19th Jul 2006 01:49
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mr love, listen to those who know what they are talking about.

As you have not listed your computer specs, I am going to make the likely assumption that you don't have a computer. Currently you are at a public terminal typing a reply. ;P

Now I see that you changed the settings in another thread. Congrats. But you should ASK what to change and how to change it, there are smart people here. They know more then all of us combind.

Your Mod was deleted by the Government.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 09:04
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I didnt know that DJ Professor K! Hmm.. I guess I missed something here! lol.. If it is that easy, I wasnt all wrong then! Thanks alot DJ Professor K! (If You are right...)

Merranvo.. Well You know..... You dont need to be a professor to change some Nvidia settings. Even You courld do it without manual. (Belive Me!!!)

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