Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

3 Dimensional Chat / Evolver - A 3D Character Creator

Author
Message
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 18th Jul 2006 20:43 Edited at: 18th Jul 2006 22:15
Link
I received 3D World Magazine through my door a couple of days ago and on it there is the basic version of Evolver - a 3D character creator. I haven't been able to stop using it - it is truely magnificent!

The program isn't available until 24th July and at the moment you can't download the version I have either but I felt I had to share something with you.
There is a 'virtual gene pool' from which you select between 4 and 24 characters, then adjust all sorts of parameters to create a completely unique character. It is incredibly easy to use but I'm not sure how much use it will be to the average user because it will only save models to FBX format.
Even then when you have the model it will be naked and bald, so you will need to model clothes and a hairstyle to make full use of it.
There is no pricing as of yet, so it could be way out of most peoples budgets but the basic version is free - you just can't save models with it. If you have the basic version but want the model, then you buy what you have made from the site (but again not until after 24th July)

Click Here to download a PDF that tells you about the program (it isn't availble on their site).

Here are some pictures to show you why I am so eager to spread the word ...







P.S. If anyone wants the Basic version I will be happy to upload it but it is 78Mb so someone will need to host it.


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 18th Jul 2006 22:13 Edited at: 18th Jul 2006 22:13
Link
And some more, just in case you're not intrigued enough yet ...






Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mucky Muck Ninja
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2003
Location: im not entirely sure
Posted: 18th Jul 2006 22:37
Link
Wow that looks awesome would be fun to mess around with. You could host it on file front i believe they allow more than 78megs.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MikeS
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 18th Jul 2006 23:18
Link
Looks pretty cool. Does it generate uv maps? Any chance we can get a screenshot of those models in DBP?

My issued of 3D world should be coming in a few days or so, so I'm really excited.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
gbuilder
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 18th Jul 2006 23:52 Edited at: 19th Jul 2006 00:01
Link
Interesting, Milkshape imports FBX format (also 3dsmax), I wonder if animation could be done there. Probably only crowd-res world be useful for DBPro.. or maybe low-res. Clothes could change the poly count somewhat. Seems similar to Poser in some respects except I assume you can use the models in 3d worlds. (Poser models can only be used for 2d stills and animation.)

gbuilder.

SEMPRON 2400+, 512mb Ram, ATI RADEON™ 9550 256MB DDR Graphics card, WindowsXP Professional.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 00:57
Link
Damn, I haven't bought an issue of 3Dworld mag since I haven't had a job, but I still raid their forum Anyway, the looks like a cool program, it is always a good idea to see what they have on CD with the magazines, I mean they had an evaluation edition of real flow with a getting started tutorial, the water generation of the tutorial meant a 10 hour wait, so I never did it, but you get some pretty sweet stuff.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Keemo1000
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th May 2005
Location: 28th Dimension
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 14:57 Edited at: 19th Jul 2006 15:01
Link
Im sorry, but I prefer to start models from scratch, it gives you more freedom. But the characters look realistic, and I really like that Expression editing thing!

As for the hosting, it doesnt get better than this:
http://www.savefile.com

EDIT Whoops! Thats a maximum of 60mb.. Maybe you could use Filefront. "http://www.filefront.com" or divide the contents of the folder into two or more and host each seperately (File 1,file 2,etc).

Try zipping too.

Your signature has been erased by a mod
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Manic
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Completely off my face...
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 17:29
Link
the wires aren't quite what i'd have gone for on the crowd and low poly mesh, particularly around the eyes, but look alright. i just can't see why they made sure to model the nipple on them.

I don't have a sig, live with it.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Sunflash
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jun 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 17:41
Link
Wow, does the program add any animations to the models?

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Airslide
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 19:26
Link
This looks neat!


Could you please upload it?

Get Decal Maker now and make your own decals for FPSC as easy as clicking your mouse!
Click Here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ron Erickson
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 20:50
Link
That looks cool! I am especially interested in things like this since I am working on something similar.

The major issues that I would be concerned about with this is that the poly counts are very large and I doubt the models are rigged on a bone system (which is very dificult to do correctly). I really love the facial expression thing though. That looks great. I'm also really curious to see what the pricing will be.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 19th Jul 2006 23:15
Link
There is still no mention of a price but my guess is that we are talking professional level, so no competition for Wolf

As for animation. This is form the FAQ:
Is skeletal animation data transferable from one evolver model to another?
Body movement and facial animation can be transferred from one evolver model to another with no tweaking. This way, animators can save time by completing the “Bend down and grab the suitcase” animation one time and apply the motion to multiple evolver characters.

Can evolver models be rigged for inverse kinematics?
The automatic rigging in Maya for our humanoid characters works seamlessly. So if you work in Maya the answer is yes. But at present, the FBX format does not filter the rigging for inverse kinematics from one software to another. So our humanoid characters are almost fully rigged for FBX, except for the inverse kinematics.

Not being a modeller, I don't know if skeletal animation data is of any use and as for inverse kinematics ...


Back to top
Profile PM Email
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 00:41
Link
Looks pretty cool. Would preffer to use my own models though.... as im a bit stubborn.

Back to top
Profile PM
Ron Erickson
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 02:16
Link
Quote: "There is still no mention of a price but my guess is that we are talking professional level, so no competition for Wolf"


I don't think the price will be the only thing that seperates the usefullness to this crowd. My stuff will all be ~1600 polys, rigged, animated, and in .x format, ready to load directly into DBpro or FPSC.
Still, Evolver looks very cool, detailed and polished. I am definately interested in the facial expression stuff. I'll have to see if I can incorporate something similar into my app at some point. I'll definately be keeping an eye on this to see where it goes!

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 07:57
Link
For all those that are interested in the facial animation I would recommend looking at these two videos. They are from the website, so you may have seen them already but here's the links anyway:

Hi, I'm Mac

Resolution Demonstration


Back to top
Profile PM Email
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 17:01
Link
woa. That animation is superb. Unfortunately im still that stuborn to use my own models... even though i cant model humans very well... Realy cool though.

Back to top
Profile PM
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 21:37
Link
It seems that Wings 3D supports the FBX format. So, with the support of a free modelling package it might make the utility a little more usable for more people ... still depends on the price though.


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Airslide
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 22:05
Link
Could you please upload it?

I'd like to try it out.

Get Decal Maker now and make your own decals for FPSC as easy as clicking your mouse!
Click Here!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Sureal Chris
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Jan 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 22:09
Link
As we all would!
Back to top
Profile PM
Medieval Coder
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 22:17
Link
I would also like to try it out...

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Manic
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: Completely off my face...
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 03:36
Link
i'd like to sneer and make condescending comments about people that use it, instead of learning how to do it properly... but trying to keep polite company prevents it.

I don't have a sig, live with it.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 08:04
Link
What an odd comment!

You could take that one step further and say "i'd like to sneer and make condescending comments about people that use 3D modelling programs instead of hard coding all the vertex co-ordinates"

It is a tool which helps you create 3D characters easily. If nobody used the tools provided to make things easier then we would still all be living in caves!


Back to top
Profile PM Email
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 08:06
Link
I still live in a cave

Back to top
Profile PM
gbuilder
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 10:54
Link
There are so many skills that need to be developed to make convincing 3D content and if someone can come up with a way to make it a little easier yet leave room for customisation then I'm all for it. I'm also looking forward to Wolf's Character Creator, I think there is plenty of room in the Indie scene for this type of product. In fact I think it's the way of the future

gbuilder.

SEMPRON 2400+, 512mb Ram, ATI RADEON™ 9550 256MB DDR Graphics card, WindowsXP Professional.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Medieval Coder
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 13:44
Link
The way of the future will be uniqueness.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Van B
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 15:26
Link
The time you save is where these programs come into play.

Nobody relishes character modelling, and it's a skill that takes a very long time to master. As for the quality there and the expected quality in Wolf's plugin - well it would take a long long time to get that good at modelling, texturing, and animating.

So for a coder who'd rather not go back to college, self-teach for years, or kidnap an artist at gunpoint - these products are a god send. Personally I love the idea of having characters created and rigged, all ready to drop into a game, so I'd opt for Wolf's plugin everytime. The games people like to make here, or would like to make if they could - all involve a lot of characters, not being able to get them is a project killer. I honestly think we'll see some amazing projects once this stuff is available, anything that drags that freakin Darkmatter soldier model out of screenshots suits me!.

That's the thing - if you don't know character modelling and you need it, well it's upto you how you spend the rest of your life, working on the project, or learning a lot of brand new time consuming skills so you can produce worse media.

Aegrescit medendo
Back to top
Profile PM Email
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 21st Jul 2006 21:32
Link
This program is pretty good (Got it today). If anyone is wondering... I dont know if u can save models in Game format in the Basic version... and its being released on thier website in 3 days.

But yeh its a pretty good program.... hopefully there will be more control in the advanced version.

Back to top
Profile PM
gbuilder
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 23:53 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2006 23:58
Link
Quote: "The way of the future will be uniqueness."

Medieval Coder,
I agree, uniquness is most desireable. The amount of customisation on these programs is the key to their useability and success. For character creation I'd like to see low poly short and tall people, a variety of body types and ages including children, skin types, wrinkle types, deformity types, eye colour, hair colour, hair types, clothes types, personality types, emotion types etc... that export to .x or .dbo, animated and ready to go. Not too much to ask.

SEMPRON 2400+, 512mb Ram, ATI RADEON™ 9550 256MB DDR Graphics card, WindowsXP Professional.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mucky Muck Ninja
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Sep 2003
Location: im not entirely sure
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 08:30
Link
I've found that the general rule is that the less work you have to do, the less unique your work is, and consequently the less its worth. Sure with this program you can change a lot of options that morph the character into different shapes..but so can everyone else. I'm with biggadd i would rather use my own models, but this would be fun to play around with.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MikeS
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 21:30
Link
From the screens above though, the low res models seem to have pretty clean geometry which leaves room for modifications. I think this will be a good tool to use in the future.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Van B
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 14:44 Edited at: 24th Jul 2006 14:45
Link
The modellers here should disregard their own skills when considering software like this, because most people don't have those skills .

Like there's no point knowing how to make characters for your game if you end up using these packages, but consider what choice you'd make if you had no modelling skills. Would you rather learn how to model, animate, UV from scratch - or just buy a proggie that spits out good quality models for you. At the end of the day, most people can't and won't learn to model characters, it's a complicated task only made easier by natural ability.

People can either transform their ideas into 3D forms or they can't, time to get my grandpa specs on for this, but it's the education system. Kids are no longer taught things like Technical Drawing in schools - which is where you learn to envisage 3D shapes and with that skill modelling is much easier. Frankly, anyone yearning to work professionally in the games industry should disregard computer studies and get stuck into art and design courses instead - you tend to learn a lot more useful skills in the long run.

Aegrescit medendo
Back to top
Profile PM Email
nrasool
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Sep 2003
Location: Surrey Area
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 15:02
Link
When I try to download from their site, it comes up with page cannot be found. Please could someone upload it?

Kind Regards

A Good Programmer never blames his tools
Back to top
Profile PM
Gemstone Games
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Jul 2006
Location:
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 17:22
Link
Not to sound like a jerk, but Van's got it down. Not everyone can make 3D models as well as some of the board's people, and deservedly so. But when given a choice between using a prog that creates somewhat generic but good quality low-poly models or getting yelled at any time one of us tries to commission a 3D modeler to create something for us, ten to one we're gonna want to avoid the yelling more than the newb references.

Now if they can do something with clothes, this might be the prog that could replace MakeHuman as the latest craze. At least this one CAN do the low-poly models.

Formerly JMC...
Back to top
Profile PM
Medieval Coder
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 17:34
Link
Quote: "Technical Drawing in schools"

They still teach it in schools! They have two classes of that at my high school. Also a CAD class. But then again....our school if very out dated and old...

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ron Erickson
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 17:48 Edited at: 24th Jul 2006 17:50
Link
Well,
I just created an account with them to check out the pricing.

Basic Version:
----------------
License Fee: $39
To purchase a completed mesh (only the mesh): $49
To purchase a complete character: $1995

Pro Version:
----------------
License Fee: $4995
To purchase a completed mesh (only the mesh): $49
To purchase a complete character: $995



Looks like there WILL still be LOTS of room for my program

-Ron

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Scraggle
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 18:19
Link
WOW!

I was expecting professional level prices but that really takes the biscuit!

OK, so they look good but for that price I could take a holiday around the world, stopping off at several destinations ... I know which I'd prefer.


Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ron Erickson
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 18:28 Edited at: 24th Jul 2006 18:32
Link
I can't see how it will do very well. At those prices, they have completely eliminated ANY personal use. Companies that would have some use of the software probably already have their own people to generate 3d models. If they don't then they will STILL need someone to generate hair and clothes for the models.
The poly counts are also misleading because of the lack of hair/clothes. The options are to "add clothes on top of the model" (which would greatly increase the poly count) -or- redo the body meshes for clothing (which defeats the purpose of the program).
The program looks great. It looks powerful and polished. Unfortunately, I think it COMPLETELY misses the target.

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
gbuilder
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posted: 24th Jul 2006 23:14
Link
Man, where do those guys live, they must have high rents to pay.
So when is your program coming out wolf?

gbuilder.

SEMPRON 2400+, 512mb Ram, ATI RADEON™ 9550 256MB DDR Graphics card, WindowsXP Professional.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
BiggAdd
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: != null
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 03:02
Link
whoa.... steep prices. I'd rather spend the money on some decent software.... rather than buy a character.
Alright... they've tapped into a market there... they obviously know that character modeling is a long and arduous task (we all do).. But at those prices... come on!

Lets hope wolf can make a program with a slightly lower pricetag.

What i would be worried about though, if i made a quick and easy model maker... is noobs going on turbosquid and flogging the models they made in 1 min for £5.

You could always embed a key or something into the model's DirectX Code to keep a track of what the model was created in.

Back to top
Profile PM
Ron Erickson
Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 04:33
Link
Quote: "What i would be worried about though, if i made a quick and easy model maker... is noobs going on turbosquid and flogging the models they made in 1 min for £5."


Yes. That is definately a problem. I've been trying to think of some ways to counter it, but I haven't decided on anything definite yet. I'd be open to suggestions

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
3D Character Maker!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MikeS
Retired Moderator
23
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Dec 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 25th Jul 2006 04:55 Edited at: 25th Jul 2006 04:57
Link
You'll definitly want to include some kind of license Wolf, similar to Darkmatter perhaps. Some kind of "you must protect these models if you're distributing them in a game." I know Tree Magik also had a clause along the lines of "you cannot make a model pack with these models" or something like that. Little things like this should help cut down on piracy. Also, you could try adding comments to whatever files your program outputs(.x/.dbo I'm assuming) with this license in it.

[edit] sorry about going off topic.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly Yellow)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2026-07-26 22:02:56
Your offset time is: 2026-07-26 22:02:56