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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Raven...

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pugmartin
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Posted: 7th Apr 2003 01:46
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Hello there matey. After a lot of thought, ive decided to take your advice from another post and ditch Hammer, Cshop and the like for the time being and develop me own rudimentory editor in DBPro. I NEED realtime lighting. Therefore i realise your argument that whilst BSPs are handy for certain things, they arent always the be all and end all is true.

So, i want to make a simple editor to start with. Something that'll just let me place a few walls etc and a few light n save em out to a file. Done it before, ill do it again.

However:

Im aware that, say cubes, can be modified by scaling them. But how about accurately extending one side? Could i just 'select' the cube, get its position, and as i 'drag one side', just scale that dimension by a set amount while moving it in the opposite direction? I havent tried this yet so just thought id ask you quick to see whether you thought it a viable method or if not, what could you suggest?

I also want to try out a quick test to see if i can create a shaded effect on the walls of my saved 'levels'. By this i mean select a compile button and it would shade the walls in a BSP kinda way, but with me being able to control the output result. For instance, it would work out the shading on the walls for when the lights were turned on etc. In the game code, i could then swap to the appropriate textures when the light switch is flicked. And so on. I realise this would take time to calculate but, dont matter if its pre-done. Again, what are your views on this?



Thats all for now mate, thanks for your time!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Apr 2003 03:58
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thats not a very quickly answered question ... short answer is memblocks and creative use of the types, long answer is i'll put it on my things to do list

i got your email about it btw, so don't worry i'll explain it a little more - but the Screen Object & Vectors just became your best mates (^_^)
you can achieve this through scaling, however a more efficient way it to calculate based on the facing direction which face has been clicked and then editing all the vertex in that object within a memblock which just so you can see what you're editing you pass to an already present mesh.
same goes for the UV Data and creating 'Shaders' ... sorting out a particlar format function which can be read and performed.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pugmartin
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Posted: 7th Apr 2003 15:49
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Thanx mate, i`d already figured memblocks were the order of the day but havent used em for a while since having a fiddle about with c++. Man, that was a long time ago...

About the vectory side of things, guess i got a little bit to learn eh?!

Looks like i got a bit of revision to do methinks. Last time i did that was when creating 3d texture mapper for AMOS PRO on good old Amiga. Slow as hell but i was damn proud!

Anyway enough rambling. Thanx for taking the time to have a look at me post and sending me in the right direction. Oh, n if you ever need help, you know who to ask yeah? LOL

Thanks again

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Apr 2003 20:11
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lol (^_^)... well i think i could probably code you a form of what i mean in DBpro 1.31 however i'm not so sure howto do it in 1.4 as all the 3D Data's changed and no one seems to know howto access the face data, right now i think the best way it to grab the memblock ptr and use DirectX to do it because its a command for FVF access to get this data.
but i'm gonna bug Mike first before i go around making any more DLLs

i need the face data for something i'm working on myself right now
i'd work on getting a simple GUI, buttons, veiws with sliders & graphics perhaps buttons for adding a block (can work on more complex shapes later)
i think that should take a day or so which would give me the time to find out the info i need

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pugmartin
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Posted: 8th Apr 2003 20:31
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Actually got this working yesterday after about five mins. Quite impressive actually. (Well it was to me. showed everyone else in the house n they just looked at me n said, "Wheres the lives at?"... bloody kids...)

Anyway, at the minute i got a nice floating control panel that can be dragged about the screen and placed windows stylee, zoom buttons that work, camera movement buttons that work, block manipulation buttons(dont work fully yet.cough),view change buttons that work,and a block that can be added.

Im gonna change the code today to use an array system so multiple blocks can be added easily etc. At the mo i just got it so you can stretch or squash the right hand side(x) of the block so i could see if it would work (y'know, so the opposite face would stay put while dragging the selected one). Yup, works straight away. Really looking forward to getting stuck in properly though but i guess it'd be hard without being able to edit the block correctly on all faces.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Apr 2003 22:20
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you know i stil can't for the life of me figure it out howto calculate the faces, i've ransacked all of the Direct3D libraries and can't find the function they use to get it not gonna stop looking but for now i've thought of a more creative way around it hehee

you get the screen position xy of the vertex positions, then you interpol the difference ... if the mouse is within the interpolated coords then the 4 nearest vertex on the zbuffer are then choosen

OR and here the much simpler way hehee, could dot product each 4 vertex combinations and using that point use a dummy onject to get the screen xy and then use a simple distance calc to see if the mouse is overit, if there is more than one then you do a zbuffer comparison - et voila then move the vertex that you array thge index numbers of

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pugmartin
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Posted: 9th Apr 2003 20:58
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Er, what?...
Dont think i quite follow you mate!

Gonna update it in a minute, but while i try to figure out what you mean by dot product of vertices, just gonna change me control panel to something like this:


'''''
' ' --- Move top side
''''' / up/down
/
''''' --
' '
'''''

'''''''''''''
''''' '''''' ' ' '''''' ''''' -Move right side
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' left/right
''''' ' ' ''''''''''''' ' ' ''''' /
\ ' ' ' ' /
''''' ' ' ''''''''''''' ' ' ''''' -
' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' ' '
''''' '''''' ' ' '''''' '''''
\ '''''''''''''\
Move left side -- Move whole block about
up/down '''''
' ' - Move bottom side
''''' up/down
/
''''' -
' '
'''''


(Amazing, that took even longer than i thought it would!!!
Shoulda given up before i started... Never gonna attempt that again in a hurry... N i bet it makes no sense at all to anybody `cept me... Hang on, what the hell is it???)

Hmmph. To clarify, the top two lickle buttons would stretch the top side of the block, the bottom ones the bottom etc. The big uns in the middle would move the whole block. Is that understandable now? Probly not...

Anyway, doing it this way is more or less just reusing me current code with new bits n bobs tacked on. It`ll do me for now i guess.

Hoping to get stuff in for simple matrix editing etc at some time as well (i know, i know, get this sorted first. Im just thinking ahead to what i wanna achieve!)

By the way, before i go to far, i wanted to ask what you reckon i can hope to achieve with this "tool". Let me explain, i wanna do a fairly free roaming adventure viewed in the first person(yup, neva heard that one before...) Any way, got turned off BSPs cos of lighting issues n relatively small playfield. Plus (the biggie), i want a small village in which people can walk around and enter houses. Indoor/Outdoor not a good idea in BSP...
Coulda done something i guess but i want NO loading in between. You, know, i wanna be able to look into houses from outside, etc, not just another "level".

Thing is, i was just wondering how DBPro would handle all of these objects(blocks) hanging about about and how i would optimize it to keep up the speed etc.

Anyway, thanx for your time again mate. Look forward to hearing your comments. Ta

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pugmartin
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Posted: 9th Apr 2003 21:02
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^^^^^ Yep. Thats great. Everyone can laugh now. Actually no, dont. That took bloody ages to do.

Look at it. Its a mess.
I wouldnt care but it had full shading n wotnot on it as well... Yeah right!

Let that be a lesson to us all. Dont try n be fancy n draw diagrams on the forum to try n impress everyone with yer art skills. It dont work.

(Yeah i know i coulda edited it. Its funnier this way)

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TheCyborg
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 15:09
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lol... If you want to "Draw" something just put the [ code ] tags around. It will remember the spaces:




TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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pugmartin
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 20:03
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Ahh... now i get it... (sound of head banging off the wall)


Thanx mate. Ill remember that

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IanM
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 21:00
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So are you gonna redraw it for us or not? I suspect not ...
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pugmartin
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 21:32
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LOL Believe me mate its not worth the effort!

Might do later like if i get bored waiting for Raven to reply!!! LOL

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 10th Apr 2003 22:21
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pm... edit your original post and put the code tags around it.
they retain the unicode in the page it the php that doesn't display this (for the posts atleast)

i reply more when i have more to say but my mind is going a mile a second - teach me to have 2 expresso's in a row

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pugmartin
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Posted: 11th Apr 2003 00:47
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Thats no problem Raven, i wasnt being cheeky (for once). I appreciate the info so far mate n i can see you seem to participate in almost every post. I can see you helping just about everyone out. Just help out when you can if you can, if you know what i mean.

To be honest you neednt waste your time sorting things out for me at the mo, just a quick view on my speed musing would suffice! Cheers mate

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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 11th Apr 2003 13:28
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Watashi wa Eletronic Arts de shigoto o shimasu!
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pugmartin
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 21:06
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Hmmmm....

Anyway, i know ill probly have to ask this again in a new topic so people can see it but for now ill ask it here:

Can anyone think of any useful things they think i could include in an editor of this type? You know, have you ever thought to yourself while coding, "I wish i had a nice little util that could do that for me,"?

Although i aint had a great deal of spare time to work on this lately, i think its coming along nicely at the mo (just about to sort out the lighting buttons and get the saving/loading up to scratch). If anyones interested, id be quite happy to put this up for download once its in a better state if anyone would find it useful.

Another quick thing, im not too sure how to go about getting me own webspace or putting things up for download etc so if anyone can give me a few pointers id be very grateful. Ta very muchly

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Ratty Rat
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 21:33
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When DBPro first appeared I tried to de-code the new DX8 objects using memblocks (it was reasonable easy in DB113, using the DX7 objects) . Oddly I was trying to do exactly what pugmartin wants to do, write my own object editor.

Basically I gave it up as a bad job after a few trys.

I have since requested vertex/face editing functions whenever there is a 'what would you like to see in DB' post here (built in functions would be excellent), no word on that yet.

erm, sorry this isn`t much use just thought I`d add my 2 cents worth.

"Don`t try to engage my enthusiasm, I don`t have one"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Apr 2003 23:34
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pug you can use my webspace for a while if you want ... it needs to break things into 1.95mb chunks but aside from that is a good server

and if you got the list of Raven's "i wish my 3D proggie could do..." it'd never end

how about just adding simple extrude and UV mapping should be enough for now.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Danmatsuma
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 11:01
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Hehe, if you can, make it so you can have multiple planar maps/textures on a single object, and store all the textures for said maps in one bmp, automatically stitched at the seams.

I'm sick of chilliskinner

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 12:32
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me likes ChilliSkinner, pitty Max5 Uvmapper is better lol - and UVSkin5 for Max4 does a good job at the added features of 5 without the bugs the chilli has...
wish they'd work on a bloody true plugin update version of that program

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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pugmartin
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Posted: 15th Apr 2003 20:43
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Ratty Rat, thanx for your comments. At the mo, i can only build things using blocks etc (other simple objects n wotnot`ll be easy to add later), but something such as making say a triangulated roofy type thing such as can be done in Hammer et al (y'know, where you join the vertices of a cube to make a triangle) would prove difficult at present. Gonna need a little bit of info on using memblocks for such as this im afraid...

Ive just about got the code down for simple carving of two objects etc but again, for more complex shapes this'll prove difficult. Just have to see how it turns out...

Danmatsuma, cheers. Will do.

Raven, again, thanx for your help mate. Ill get in touch as soon as i have something a little more presentable if thats ok. Cheers again.

Think ill add a couple more things n see about sorting out a few screenshots.

Thanx all

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