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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] TGC is joking.... right?

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Benjamin A
19
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Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 02:19
I've just read the newsletter....
Quote: "We are pleased to announce that two brand new FPS Creator Model Packs are nearing completion, and are due for release shortly. "


Cool, very exciting. But then I do read on.....
Quote: "Both packs should be available in the next couple of months"


That's a joke, isn't it?

Shortly and available in the next couple of months really don't go together to well. In the next couple of months is way beyond shortly.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 02:21
They may well be released much sooner but always better to be on the side of caution just in case something goes wrong.
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 02:45
Yeah it was late when I typed that piece. One of them will be out very soon, the other in the next 4-6 weeks.

Bite my shiny metal ass
HandK
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 03:35
Depends how old you are, shortly used to mean "in the next twenty mins".
But now I take it to mean this TV season

H&K
SpyDaniel
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 04:05
I see a year as being no time at all, so a few months is nothing.
SkyCubes
20
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:07 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 09:18
Yet another one of my predictions comes true. Am I seriously the only one here that wants to literally vommit when I read stuff like this? It may as well read "Here at TGC we believe in devoting our time to the creation of more add-on products rather than fix the primary product for which you have invested both time and money. You don't have to like it, but you sure as hell better not say anything about it on our forums because you will get banned".

What a joke.

Silly me...what am I thinking? I completely over-looked the fact that TGC did me a favor by even releasing and selling FPSC to me in the first place, right?

How does a company of people sit in staff meeting after staff meeting, look at each other with straight faces and say "Let's not fix the product so that it does what it was intended to do AND advertised to do. Instead, let's devote our time and resources to add-ons that will continue to generate revenue. Those poor suckers will buy them up and learn to live with the bugs until we 'get around to fixing them'."

It will more than likely get me banned (for the 3rd time in as many months) but I don't care. This is bordering on fraudulant business practice and every single owner of FPSC should be screaming at the top of their lungs right now.

Jesus, this pisses me off to no end.

"Trust no one" --Deepthroat (X-Files)
Jiffy
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Location: Hiding in the bushes in your backyard
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:16
SkyCubes, give it a rest.

All you do on here is hate, hate, hate, hate.

FPSCreators had been a huge gift to the community back in EA, as were, funnily enough, your skycubes. But seriously, please stop with this. You bring as much hate to TGC at the most trivial thing possible. Guess what? Bond is making the model packs now, TGC arn't taking there time away. TGC is working on an update.

Stop whining and either start being respectful or get out of here. We really don't need you.


Evil has a new name. Demo out now!
SkyCubes
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:24
Really Jiffy? And what about all the long speeches I've received about how TGC has "learned their lesson" about announcing releases? How come it's so easy for them to announce releases of add-on packs 4-6 weeks before they are due to come out, but that can't say D__K about the fixes? Final ansa? Umm, because announcing add-ons generates hype...which generates revenue.

Do me a favor and get off your high horse long enough to recognize what's happening around here.

"Trust no one" --Deepthroat (X-Files)
Jiffy
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:30 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 09:31
SkyCubes, you obviously misunderstood both TGCs meaning on that comment and what scale "time" is on.

Firstly, the model packs are almost done. If you bothered to read what their stance on the situation is, you would know that it is because they don't want to people to expect things they say will be in there and have them not be in there. If a majority of the work is done, then it's fine--because its inclusion is guarrenteed.

Whereas the fixes are in the early stages. Things arn't finished, there's higher chances of problems, and it's just simply not the right time for speculation. That's the difference.

If TGC actually did focus purely on generating revenue through hype, they would be talking non-stop about the demo. I can guarrentee that 90% of people here would prefer an update to FPSC than an add-on, or two.


Evil has a new name. Demo out now!
Benjamin A
19
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Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:36
Quote: "Yeah it was late when I typed that piece. One of them will be out very soon, the other in the next 4-6 weeks."


That makes it clear I do understand that, I've been amazed at times by the nonsense I do type when it's late

Sounds cool that one of them will be out very soon, I'm hopping it will be the character one, I've been waiting for that one a long time now.

Both both look pretty cool.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
SkyCubes
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:40
Quote: "Whereas the fixes are in the early stages."


ROTFLMAO

You can't possibly be serious with that statement, can you? Have you been in the same dimension as I during the past 2 years?

Fact: FPSC out over a year.
Fact: Bug reporting/gathering for over a year.
Fact: Two (2) brand new model packs already released over the past year.
Fact: Two (2) more model packs being released in "4-6 weeks".
Fact: A few "use at your own risk/internal tools" released in the last year.
Fact: Not a single bug fix/update released.

I'm not making this crap up, Jiffy. I'm not some random "hater" as you so eloquently described in fluent MTVish. And if voicing my concerns and opinions about the situation offends someone or gets me banned, then so-be-it. It only lends credibility to my argument(s).

"Trust no one" --Deepthroat (X-Files)
bond1
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:43
SkyCubes, as Jiffy mentioned, I'm creating the character model pack, and it's my guess that TGC's lead artist Simon is creating the warehouse pack. Mine will be done by the end of August at the latest.

Just because there hasn't been an update to version 1 doesn't mean that there shouldn't be any additional content released for FPSC. Many people are having fun with FPSC as it is.

You imply that by releasing model packs, TGC is somehow "milking" their customers. I think they are providing exceptional value. I challenge you to find content comparable to what TGC is releasing ANYWHERE on the internet.

People are still going to need content for their games when an update is released.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
Benjamin A
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:43 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 10:00
Quote: "Here at TGC we believe in devoting our time to the creation of more add-on products rather than fix the primary product for which you have invested both time and money. You don't have to like it, but you sure as hell better not say anything about it on our forums because you will get banned"."


Just to set the record straight.... TGC is NOT devoting their time on these model packs. They're being created by other and then being sold by TGC. TGC is devoting their time on creating updates, but seeing and knowing that allmost all user efforts did shatter, creating an uodate for FPSC doesn't seem to be an easy task at all. But in due time we will see an update, in the meantime let's be happy with what we've got.

On the other hand why would TGC want to release an update anyway? Hardly anyone is using FPSC for anything serious at all. They're seem to be many customers, but there seem to be little users. Instead of everyone complaining, let's start creating games with FPSC to show TGC that it's worthwhile to create an update of FPSC, since there are many users around.

Don't get me wrong, I DO WANT AN UPDATE FOR FPSC also and as soon as possible. But with TGC it doesn't seem to help to complain ovr and over again. I do own other game engines and 3d applications also and some of the other companies are just great when it comes to customer releationships andd updates. A few of them even take personal requests and they will implement them into the engine/application within a couple of weeks.... for free! I do love that and it makes me a loyal customer. I've been using their software for many years and even though there are alternatives around, I'm not going to switch in a million years.

With TGC that's different. To be honest, if someone else creates something like FPSC, but with more features and less bugs, I'm out of here, regardless of my investment into FPSC. I'm not a loyal customer and TGC doesn't create the atmosphere for that to happen for FPSC users. With most of the other 3D related apps I do use, I know some of the designers/managment personal (even after using it for only half a year), but with TGC I always get the feeling they want to keep their distance from FPSC users.

So be it, I'm not happy with it, but so be it. I'm not going to waste sleepless nights or numerous complaints about it. If that's the way it is, then that's they way it is. But if TGC is looking for loyal FPSC customers then my advice would be really to change the attitude towards us. Perhaps the attitude isn't intended at all, but most of us do clearly feel it..... we've bought FPSC, but that's it, that seems to be the end of the story. To make FPSC really successful, imo TGC should work on creating a good and loyal user base and put effort into to that and not avoid us so much as they do..... and give us some crumbs at times to keep us happy.

Well enough said, back to working on my latest game. No it's not being done with FPSC, to continue my work with FPSC, I do need the character pack.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
SkyCubes
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 09:50
Quote: "Instead of everyone complaining, let's start creating games with FPSC to show TGC that it's worthwhile to create an update of FPSC, since there are many users around."


I couldn't agree more, Ben. But how are we supposed to do that? Are you suggesting that we spend weeks and months designing levels, storylines, adding content and lighting, etc, only to find out that our game won't work? Why in the world would I or anyone else do that? Personally, I gave up on the idea of that months ago and turned my attention to making skycube content. I stopped that primarily because of the M_D issues (I'm not allowed to say it out loud).

The bottom line is games can't be fully developed until the product is fixed. If developing completed games is the key to getting TGC support, then the whole thing is some sort of crazy paradox and this is all a waste of time.

"Trust no one" --Deepthroat (X-Files)
Benjamin A
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Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 10:07
Quote: "The bottom line is games can't be fully developed until the product is fixed. If developing completed games is the key to getting TGC support, then the whole thing is some sort of crazy paradox and this is all a waste of time."


Sorry to disagree, but you can create games with FPSC, I've done a number of projects by now and they work great. Perhaps they're not a 100% of what I want them to be, but they work fine, after devoting my time on finding workarounds for the obvious problems FPSC does have.

I really like the final outcome of Commander Josh, but it could be much better. Still it's good, even good enough to be noticed by a number of publishers. So don't tell me you can't make good games with FPSC.... looking at my bankaccount tells me otherwise. But you need to put time and effort into it.

Of course my FPSC experience could be much better, but I'm really not going to wait around for TGC to fix/update. I've invested to much into FPSC to just let it sit there on my harddisk. I'm going to work with it as is and just take a step back if needs to.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
Bloodeath 6 6 6
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Location: Sierra vista in indonesia
Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 11:08
i do agree with skycubes not updating the product once in a year is bad practice, but then when i think about it, tgc arnt nessarily working on the model packs its not like the entire team is working just on that * i hope not * bond1 and simon are...thats it...but i do agree there should be atleast 1 minor update

www.Disorder-Creations.com
Zerodin
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 11:31
It doesn't matter to me how long it takes them to put new material out, time crafted quality is always better then mass produced quantity.

"Mushrooms, Snakes, and you!" the selfhelp book for badgers
Komet
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 11:55
Quote: "Depends how old you are, shortly used to mean "in the next twenty mins".
But now I take it to mean this TV season"


LOL! Very true.
Komet
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 12:07
The lack of a patch to fix the various bugs which the primary product (FPSC) has is very bad practice.

The lack of an update with new features in general is a different matter but one is overdue anyway

I'm the Co-creator of a famous e-Commerce software product and I can tell you all quite honestly that we fix our bugs within 48 hours of them being found/reported, how many months has it been since V1 of FPSC was released? Yet no patch for bugs.

To cap it all I get the impression that FPSC is not selling as well as the developers had hoped, is this why bug fixes and an update has not materialised?
Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 12:16 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 12:28
Quote: "How does a company of people sit in staff meeting after staff meeting, look at each other with straight faces and say "Let's not fix the product so that it does what it was intended to do AND advertised to do. Instead, let's devote our time and resources to add-ons that will continue to generate revenue. Those poor suckers will buy them up and learn to live with the bugs until we 'get around to fixing them'."


This statement Skycubes is a precise illustration of how little you know about this stuff - you actually think TGC have a big round table and they sit drinking mugs of corporate coffee and talk about not fixing FPSC. TGC pretty much entirely work from home offices and probably only gather together a couple of times a year.

Really, I'd rather pull my own teeth than listen to your rants all over again. Consider a short newbie slap as anti-acid for that bile.

You guys think maybe FPSC would be cool with Ageia card supported physics like we see in the latest Unreal and Ghost recon games.

You guys think maybe FPSC would benefit from Dark Lights, the new lightmapper, or how about Dark AI - or should TGC just fix the issues instead of improving it 10-fold.

Aegrescit medendo
Komet
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 12:36
Regardless of TGC's coffee drinking habits or their office decor, Skycubes has made some very valid comments.

I for one cannot even test a level in FPSC V1 without it crashing with some error or other!

I guess there is no point in posting these errors and problems in the Bug forum as they have lurked there unresolved since V1 was released...
Van B
Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 13:03
It's the way he handles these gripes.

He basically sits and vents in threads like this - it's about TGC announcing model packs early - is there any correlation between that and the bugs in FPSC? - NO - Simon works freelance as an artist for TGC, Bond is freelance as well - if they can help aleviate the bitching about lack of media, then great, but that has nothing at all to do with bugs.

Why not email someone instead of treating this forum like a toilet? - bitching is not the way to get things done here.

What is the way to get things done?

Dunno, don't work for TGC - but I imagine Lee is gonna take a run at the FPSC source, armed with some neat plugins. You can be patient if you like and see what sort of product FPSC becomes, or just vent and repeat yourself over and over, because that's worked up til now huh!. Venting this often is trolling, and as I've said in the past we don't mess around with trolls.

Aegrescit medendo
Komet
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 13:32
With respect I find it odd that TGC makes use of people to be moderators who are "not" their employees, this being the case you are no different I assume from me or others who purchased FPSC.

However as they have made you a moderator you naturally won't tend to gripe at them about the lack of bug fixing and an update to V1.

In addition it's doubtful if you will be privy to what TGC really has in the pipeline so to speak or their programming schedule.

If we don't voice our concerns and do so publically then nothing will be done about the bugs or an update anytime soon it looks like.

So I for one would like a public statement by someone in authority at TGC regarding when we can expect a patch that will fix bugs and a "rough" idea of when V1 will be updated and what they have in mind for improvements, by requesting this I do not see myself as a troll and do figure it is easy to smear someone with that label as a means of shutting folk up who have genuine concerns.
Van B
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 13:47
Quote: "you are no different I assume from me or others who purchased FPSC"


No, that's not an accurate assumption.

I've been a member of this community since before DBPro.

I've finished more projects than most people here.

I beta tested T3DGM and FPSC.

I'm a moderator who has access to the lounge, Rich will sometimes leak little details in there (we've had to change the carpet twice).


So before we start another discussion about mods, and how we all do this and that and blah blah bleeeeeding blah - consider that maybe I can comment on this stuff because I have a clue about what I speak. Whether you or anyone pays that any mind is not my concearn - but when someone consistantly posts bile in other peoples threads, that's trolling. I was accusing Skycubes of trolling, any MOD who feels I was in the wrong please step forward and plead his case, but nobody hold their breath for that.

Perhaps from now on I'll just do my modding stealthy like - so instead of warnings and reasons, it'll just be straight out bans and slaps - woo hoo. One day people will learn that moderator actions are not up for debate, here, or anywhere on this forum.

Aegrescit medendo
FredP
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 13:47 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 13:50
Quote:
"With respect I find it odd that TGC makes use of people to be moderators who are "not" their employees, this being the case you are no different I assume from me or others who purchased FPSC."

We volunteered (or were volunteered) to be mods because we care about the TGC forums.We also have these shiny mod badges.That makes us different.

Quote:
"However as they have made you a moderator you naturally won't tend to gripe at them about the lack of bug fixing and an update to V1."

Surely you jest!The FPSC forum mods have pointed out on more than one occassion that we would like to see an update for FPSC.
But we know that crying,whining and/or throwing a fit isn't going to speed anybody up.It's a proven fact that usually has the opposite effect.

Quote:
"So I for one would like a public statement by someone in authority at TGC regarding when we can expect a patch that will fix bugs and a "rough" idea of when V1 will be updated..."

Read the July newsletter to find out TGC's stance on the FPSC update.I think you will find it makes sense.

I would love to see an update for FPSC as much as the next person.But there is a lot I can do or any of us can do to make our games whilst we wait for the update.

Quote:
"So before we start another discussion about mods, and how we all do this and that and blah blah bleeeeeding blah - consider that maybe I can comment on this stuff because I have a clue about what I speak. Whether you or anyone pays that any mind is not my concearn - but when someone consistantly posts bile in other peoples threads, that's trolling. I was accusing Skycubes of trolling, any MOD who feels I was in the wrong please step forward and plead his case, but nobody hold their breath for that."

Not stepping forward and not holding my breath.

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 13:50
Quote: "However as they have made you a moderator you naturally won't tend to gripe at them about the lack of bug fixing and an update to V1"

You haven't seen some of my posts then... I have no problem complaining about TGC products, and most people should be able to, as long as everyone keeps to known facts.

I believe, I think I have mentioned (in the past) that perhaps TGC are over-stretching themselves with the amount of in-house written software that needs to be kept an eye on - extra people certainly would help.

Come to the last Unofficial DBPro Convention (http://convention.logicstudios.net/)
Supplying "NO" since 1974...
Komet
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 14:04
Fair enough Philbert McTwitch, FredP and of course Van B, I stand corrected on your personal wishes for a bug fix patch and also an update to be released A.S.A.P.

Can you all please pass on to TGC that a good number of FPSC customers are making noises of discontent about the lack of a bug fix patch though, I mean we've had these errors for months and months now (sigh).
Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 15:16
Hav eyou all seen the warehouse model pack ?
looks like it contains a few new characters.?!?!?
aaand, what about the shadow effects.....they look amazing...
looks like TRUE dynamic shadows.
the image is quite bright...and the shadows are clear and sharp.
maybe this is rendered in DBP ?!?
i love this image

yeah...thats the ticket !
uman
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2006 15:19 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2006 15:20
Make no mistake we all including Moderators want to see a better FPSC product and I like many others have on many occasions spoken out strongly in favour of many and specific badly needed improvements that many users want and continually request.

So to, personally I and many others would like - and have said so many times - to see a little more info and participation from TGC in relation to users concerns and the development of FPSC.

It been done and that continmues to be done.

Its not however TGC policy and no one here has any influence over that - we can all keep asking - its just wont make any difference - until TGC decide so.

There are very many valid points in this thread from everyone concerned having varying opinions - all of those I treat with equal respect even if the way in which they are contributed I may not view in such a way.

The points are made and I am sure noted by all concerned including TGC.



"I am and forever will be your friend"

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