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i want to create an outdoor theme, so i will need tall buildings i have tried b4, but cant seem to get teh sizing right. what do you guys do to make buildings|?

To make an outdoor City with buildings you can also enter.

Personally I use the FPSC editor utilising the pograms own level building features to build almost all buildings the player has any access to in any way. i.e. build with segments.

For buildings or other elements that are on the extremeities e.g. the outskirts of the level - that have liitle or no interaction with the player nor any particular direct main view to the camera then Its fine to use any .x file model entity you may make externally in a model editor as a one piece building for instance.

The reason for this is default editor segment type created buildings are in theory at least but not wholly in practice due to compile or other engine issues - able to block the view and thus reduce ploy counts and help keep fps acceptable in outside levels.

Entity type structures on the other hand even if placed as static entities in my experience do not block the camera view and as a result on compile and game run the engine can see straight through them increasing ploy counts to view dramatically. Thas what happens at least in my own outdoor levels.

The morale therefore is you can use models for high skyscrapers and such but always keep them in the distance being the last object before the world boundary with other buildings in front of them to block the view at all times - try not even place them at the boundary if there is nothing solid behind or in front of them as the engine may see straight through them to infinity and beyond as it were - tracing through them and around the level returning high poly counts. Just as the engine can can see around corners in ceratin instances when it should not. Effectively these are what inside FPSC one might describe as instances of level leaks.

I would suggest always place a solid fence or wall or something at ground level in front of any entity building at the very least - this will help in blocking the view from the engine.

Much more experimentation is required in Outdoor level building to find the best methods of optimisation - after we see what any update to FPSC brings and if issues such as those mentioned get fixed, stay the same or become worse.

Your guess is as good as mine.

I am personally presuming at this stage that the status quo will remain as is and there wont be any improvement so if you need to build a City it might be best just to get on and do it rather than waiting.

Thanks alot uman, a very helpful post indeed.

I would suggest you try out both building with segments and entity type models and see for youreslf what the differing results are. Thats the only way to learn FPSC as well as listening to others advice if it may help. Theres also should be more info available if you search.

Remeber that with any entity type of an enclosed nature that a player or NPC may be able to enter such as a building - cave or whatever it may be that you may wish to make in an external editor - that these types of entities may pose more problems with collision than segment type world objects might. Trial and error is the only way to get it right in the case of such entities.

The learning curve can be long and hard, but the experience perhaps worth it.

Lastly in outdoor areas its quite likely if they are large and complex that you will get the serious lagg issue crop up - no fix for that except do your best to minimise its effects by any means necessary.

A search should provide some info on that too.

Good luck and let us see some screen shots of your progress over in the showcase board.

Its better to build buildings as an entity.. This will save alot of polygons and help to keep the framerate to a maximum.. One thing is strange though, the enemys can walk and run on segment-floors, but if I make My own entity-floor, then the enemys will fall thru the floor(!) This is strange couse both is just usual mesh...

Thats incorrect in my humble opinion - entites are not best used for buildings if you want to keep frame rates high and avoid the serious lagg issue as much as is possible too for the reasons I already mentioned above.

Theres no reason characters should fall through floors made by users - if you follow the rules for making floors. Floor entities are not just a mesh - they are more. They have to be recognised as a floor by the engine - so you need to let the engine know that they are indeed a floor and then they work fine.

Its not rocket science - just requires some study.

I use any room segment and on the ground floor I make the first floor,.. then go up a layer how ever high you want the building to be and just trace over the floor below. Then add doors , windows, stairs, maybe an elevator,.. and a roof. This is for "real" buildings that the player can enter.

For "prop" buildings that you don't enter,.. build them just like a normal building how ever tall you want,.. THEN click on the "paint segment walls" icon and the "edit interior mode" and DELETE all the floors and walls except for the outside walls. Hollow out the prop buildings to save polys. Put fake windows and doors on the walls. Pretty much delete any wall or floor that the player can't see to lower the poly amount.

You have to think about it like if you were making a set on a soundstage in Hollywood. If the player won't see it,.. then it shouldn't be there. You don't want the player to see the "man behind the curtain". It's best to keep outdoor maps a 3rd the size of the total grid and fake the rest to make it LOOK like a huge city when the player is really a single city block. Only give the player a few rooms in a few buildings,.. but keep the rest hollow. Keep most entities (such as crates and pallets and other "set dressing") as static and only make the entities that the player will interact with dynamic. If you had an entire game set outdoors,.. just cut up the city into different levels. You can have 50 levels in a FPSC game,.. that should be pleny of room for a large area of the game to be outdoors.

Improvise. For buildings in the distance just use building segments and build up larger shaped buildings and put smaller ones behind them. Hollow all of them out. Use a few fake small windows on the closer ones.

If you can, try to make or find a skybox with a city skyline. That would help with the illusion.

I've only had FPS Creator for a week,.. but I've learned so much everyday and now I "get" it. I understand about working within the limits of the engine and "fooling" the player into thinking the game is more complex than it really is. I've been remembering the game design of games like Deus Ex and Duke Nukem 3d and Quake 1 and Quake 2 and Doom 3 and realised that a LARGE part of game design is just "faking" it. Smoke and mirrors.