fps creator, features? - GameCreators Forum

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fallen one

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 11:29

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I am considering buying fps creator, it may be useful to make a particular game I have in mind, I want to know if it can do the following.

Control player movement with pre made paths.
I want to make a light gun style game,(see house of the dead style games) so the player will follow my pre made paths, you do not walk using the keys, the mouse will not change the view point but will shoot at what is on screen. so it is a typical lightgun game.
so the player is controlled be paths here not the keys.

Save games.
Can the player save a game.

Make a cut scene ingame.
I don't want to re make the parts of the level and then import it into max to make a movie, if i was going to do that I would use beyond virtual or C4 not fps creator, I am drawn to fps creator as it allows what I want to be made quickly, I don't want to remake the game in max for a very simple scene.
so what I want is to have an independent camera from the character, or at least fake it.

So be able to move the camera from the player action view, even if you cannot move the camera about like follow paths it would be nice to just position it away from the character to look at something else, so a static shot, perhaps even be able to rotate it.

if this is not possible for a camera in fps creator, then one would have to use the character instead as a camera, so be able to move the character instantly to another location and have them not be able to shoot, so the player is the camera in that case. you could have the player move to a mover, player cannot move and the mover (moving item following paths, I think you may call them way points in fps creator) moves the player who is acting as the camera.
I just want to have the view on screen change, for example i may want the player to be shooting in a courtyard, watching above is the big boss, so normal game here, the player is just playing as per norm, i may want to stop the action, cut to view of the big bosses face, he says reinforcements are here, cut to the gate , soldiers run in, so its action, play game as normal, then cut to a close up of enemies face, play sound file, then cut to the game, soldiers run in, then back to the player and on he goes, so its just to cuts to a static camera, its basic stuff, i just want to know if we can do this in fps, i don't want to use pre rendered movies that i make in may or something, i don't have time to build the whole scene in max, kind of defeats using fps creator in the first place, if i was going to do a lot of modeling id build the game in another program.

Talking characters.
Swap skins, I presume the character models are not boned for facial animation so one would have to use swapping skins for a skin that is animated, that way you can have the mouth moving (animated texture) to show talking

Spawn monster.
So I can have monsters spawn randomly from spawn points, that way I can make the game play differently each game due to the monster spawning from random locations, ie say 3 spawn points, one monster will spawn but it could be spawned from any of the 3 spawn points, otherwise there is no replay value as one can memorise the monster positions.

If these cannot be done, can one make the game in FPS creator and then import it to darkbasic pro and add it in that, what are the options here.

Game engine version.
Are there different versions of the game, if i buy the game editor do i need to check the box to see if i have the latest version.

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fallen one

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 12:05

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Some screens I have seen look jagged, fps creator does have anti aliasing?

Also can it go to high resolution, is there a cap on rez. I would like at least 1024x768, can it do this or higher.

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fallen one

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 12:22

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Also if I go to the store today and buy the boxed version of fps creator, am I a early adopter owner, that is entitled to the free model pack one.

Sorry for the multiple posts but I am not a full forum member yet so I cannot edit posts to add the extra comments, hence the multiple posts in the thread.

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SpyDaniel

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 16:56

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1) No

2) No

3) Yes

4) Yes

5) No

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xplosys

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 17:06

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From what you are describing, I would say that FPSC does not have the flexibility you need. It is designed to create the common first person shooter type game.

Crazy Grandpa

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uman

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 17:30

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fallen one

I would agree with xplosys - a lot can be done with FPSC with partial success with enough effort and experience additionally by making the most of the scripting commands or possibly the source.

To sum up though FPSC will currently not meet with your requirements - which sound as if you need be looking for a fairly advanced professional engine with professional type capabilities.

I doubt you want to be facing or looking for an engine which will pose a great deal of serious problems in achievng your aims, but one which will be an aid to meeting your objective in a reasonable amount of time utilising a smooth productivity pipeline.

Sounds to me like you are looking for an engine that could cost you a great deal of money for the license. You will still need a great deal of investment in time to meet with all of your stated objectives in your game, but may not face so many headaches in gettting there. The cost of such an engine may also provide you with a better overall end result for accepting the privillage of the spend.

I very much doubt you will achieve your objectives using FPSC.

"I am and forever will be your friend"

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brummel

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 18:22 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 18:22

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Correction:

1) Yes

2) No

3) Yes, with fraps

4) Yes

5) Yes

But Uman still has some good points. This is more "hobby gamemaking" than "commersial gamemaking", with some exceptions of course. Fall of the fireflies is a good example, take a look at it in the showcase board.

Dont forget to visit my website for scripts!

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uman

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 19:29

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Some of the Yes answers here are missleading in my opinion. About the only one thats achievable with any ease apart from the hard work of setting up the scene is 3. makeing in game cutscenes and as to the original posters point - the quality and professionalism achievable inside FPSC is not as good as that which could be achieved in external programes designed more specifically for such purposes.

5. Not sure what is meant by different versions of the game - What game?

As to lyp sinc - that can be done quite well if anyone cares to animate by hand frames of a characters ploys of the face. Controlling - starting and stopping - the calling of specific facial animation frames inside FPSC at the correct time can pose some problem which might be overcome. A lyp sinc program such as is available for DBPro is much more efficient and accurate and will give far better results - every time.

Overall FPSC is not well suited to most of these requirements and well suited is obviously what is being looked for here by the poster at least it seems to me from his very consice, specific and accurate descriptions of his needs.

The results in most instances at best will be mediocre. That and the term commercial is relative to personal opinion - my interpretation of commercial is as what the general game playing public and not indie game makers refer to as a commerial AAA title and that is certainly not possible using FPSC.

I dont know - Perhaps I have been missing out somewhere on my understanding of FPSC its limitations and capabilities. There are indeed many things it may be able to do that I am unaware of - to what quality and with what kind effort and level of success is another matter.

Ah well - I'll catch up I guess.

I'll leave you all to debate it and show us what can be achieved in these areas as I am done until any update comes along.

"I am and forever will be your friend"

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xplosys

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 23:50

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This has been discussed many times before. Pushing the envelope is great, but trying to make FPSC do such things is nearly impossible, and even if you did, the results would be less than pleasing.

How would you like it if TGC had advertised that all this was possible when you bought the program? When you tell people who are unfamiliar with the program that they can do all this stuff, how do you think they are going to feel when the get it?

Crazy Grandpa

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fallen one

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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 23:59

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Ill answer these in parts as I get free moments.

The results in most instances at best will be mediocre. That and the term commercial is relative to personal opinion - my interpretation of commercial is as what the general game playing public and not indie game makers refer to as a commercial AAA title and that is certainly not possible using FPSC.

I think what you are talking about here is its graphic ability.
If you try and play the same strategy as large professional studios then you probably will not make it, high end engines with modern graphics abilities are available for the indie studio for under 200 usd, per pixel rendering, parallax mapping, motion blur, depth of field hdr rendering bloom all the graphical bells and whistles, you may have to code in extra features into the engine, pathing AI etc but high powered graphics are available on a budget, but the problem is not the engine rendering, the graphics but the art pipeline,asset creation, what you have to look at is abstraction, you have to look at game making in a lateral fashion, now if you use fps creator straight out of the box using its rendering engine and trying to make a realistic game then you will fail to impress as a AAA commercial title, you should use the engine in a more creative fashion and work for stylised or impressionistic effect for the graphics, you are not going to do unreal engine 3 in fps creator so don't even try if you are thinking of a AAA commercial title, now what I mean by stylised graphics is up to your own interpretation, if you look to the art world you will see realism and classicalism, and you will also see a large number of different offshoots of impressionism or abstraction, that is the direction you have to take in a low budget indie title, create a game that no one else does, that can be done in fps creator, the only limit is your imagination in what form that takes.

I went down the street today to see if I could pick up a copy of fps creator, could not find it in the shops so I will download the demo and test what it can do, it will give me a better idea of what it can do.

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bob humid

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 01:59

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Quote: " now if you use fps creator straight out of the box using its rendering engine and trying to make a realistic game then you will fail to impress as a AAA commercial title, you should use the engine in a more creative fashion and work for stylised or impressionistic effect for the graphics, you are not going to do unreal engine 3 in fps creator so don't even try if you are thinking of a AAA commercial title, now what I mean by stylised graphics is up to your own interpretation, if you look to the art world you will see realism and classicalism, and you will also see a large number of different offshoots of impressionism or abstraction, that is the direction you have to take in a low budget indie title, create a game that no one else does, that can be done in fps creator, the only limit is your imagination in what form that takes. "

GASP. can I hug you? seriously, I was waiting months for a post like this...

listen to fallen one. LIMITATIONS ARE SEXY. DONT TRY TO MAKE THE NEXT SILENT HILL WITH FPS-CREATOR. INVENT SOMETHING NEW BY ASBTRACTING THE ENGINE's LIMITATIONs...

robert

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s a v e o u r t r a n s i e n t s

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FredP

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 02:18

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Bob,
Please don't use all caps like that.IT IS VERY ANNOYING!

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uman

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 02:22

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Currently there are certainly many limitations in FPSC and imagination though vital that may be is far from being enough to succeed in making a viable commercial game of any standing with FPSC.

All engines at any level have limitations and thus the games made with them reflect that again at whatever level.

It is doubtless possible to make a very successful commercial game with almost any engine at any level - its been done before and it may well be done again for the consumer is a fickle animal and fullfilling their fancy is sometimes achieved by the very things one might least expect to be successful.

For success much may depend on many other additional factors.

True to say that innovative use of game engine software may aid a a successful straetegy along that road to success - but its no guarantee. Many innovative ideas fail miserably to succeed and stand the test of the real world.

It all easy to say when attempting to access the possibilities and strengths for any particular hypothesis.

Doing and achieving is the only thing that will give credibility to the thinking.

I wish you all much success in your endeavours.

"I am and forever will be your friend"

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bob humid

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 02:23

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Quote: "Bob,
Please don't use all caps like that.IT IS VERY ANNOYING!"

hmm. okay I'll listen to you. but I was trying to be encouraging not naughty...

how do you write LOUDly? with caps!

best

robert

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fallen one

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 02:48

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Fps game creator could be a benefit because.
Quicker art pipeline speeds up development. Prototype the game quickly, using stock content, then later replacing the place holder art with your own if a commercial game is required, in effect several ideas could be prototyped easily, when the rough build is made the game can be easily changed with original art assets.

concentrate on the gameplay and not asset creation.
game designer should be able to create quickly, making game play creating great character development great stories and genres, ie making the actual game, the gameplay, not spending all there time making art assets like art robots and fighting with technology, the simpler the game creation tools the more the designer can concentrate on the actual game

From a publishing perspective, the AAA titles cost a lot of money to develop, they cannot afford risk so they play the middle ground, safe games and genres, tested formulas and licenses, very very low risk for the publisher.

As an independent you can take risks that they cannot, so use that, don't try and make the same game they are making, they have more money to throw around and will steam you, so do what they cannot, don't fight them at there own game but create a new game with a totally new set of rules.

Non realism games, ie innovative or stylised art, are quicker to create assets for. they also have no competitor from the big studios, so less competition, or comparison models. Also there is the point that realism graphic games will date when the next new engine or effect or shader come along, stylised games will not age the same, the stylised game can be timeless, can you say the same for the graphic marvels once the next big thing comes out, and it will and does.

With a stylised graphical game you can define the new genre you have created, the industry loves innovation, something new, it just doesn't like paying for it, or more specifically the risk of paying for it and having it fail.
You can take that risk, why, because you are an independent developer, that's why.

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xplosys

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 16:12

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@fallen one

Some excellent points here..... you've got me thinking.

Crazy Grandpa

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fallen one

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Posted: 8th Aug 2006 22:16

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Beyond graphics.
You can also get around the engine not having next gen graphics by baking the textures in an outside 3d prog, the lighting will then be from the render and not the engine, wont suit every game or be practical in some cases but it is an example of how you can get round limitations. There are others of course, but being creative you can overstep a shortfall.

still downloading the trail version of fps creator, (dail up so 13 hours, I am on my last hour) does it have anything for creating random events in the game, or has anyone made a script for that, here is my take on that idea.

scripting the future?
Wondering if fps creator has a script for a random number generator, nice if it had a modifier as well, so that the odds can be changed, the results of the rng would then trigger another script.

So we could have a random number generated from 100

We select a number of outcomes (triggers) from the number result

So say we want 3 possible outcomes/possible events, 3 possible triggers (scripts we may want the random number generator to start.)

run off
fight
offer help

so we put 3 events, next to it we put numbers for this, so it may be a even split that any 3 may come about, so we put

event number
1 0-33
2 33-66
3 66-100

The random number generator randomly picks a number, say it picks 82, that falls within event 3

So it starts the script for event 3, the script for event 3 does not have to be within the random number generator, the friend script is outside, the random number generator just says go to that script, so its a trigger to start another trigger or script.

I put the results as numbers but you could have it as a %, so as its an even split it would be 33% for all the boxes, if you wanted one event to be more likely you would have a higher number, so if something was 10% 20% and 70% breakdown if we had 3 events, or we could do it as numbers
0-10, 11-31, 32-100, possibly the percentage way is best as its easy to think oh 2 events, 65% for event 1 and 35% for the other event to happen.

More advanced features.
A more advanced version would have a timer to it, so you could generate possible events at certain times.

Having a modifier would also add to it, the modifier would then influence the roll, for example either adding a plus or minus to the random number generated, or altering the odds that was set.

The scope of what you could do with a random number trigger would be great for setting up possible events with the game world, it could give massive scope to replayability.

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Tom0001

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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 17:24

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Although you make some good points and spawn some nice ideas, most of these cannot be done. FPI does not support If Then statements, like is needed with the If Number = >0 And <33 Then
It does not support variables such as Number which are needed.

Tom

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uman

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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 18:29 Edited at: 9th Aug 2006 18:30

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fallen one,

There is no shortage of great ideas in the world regardinmg making games. There are many, many intelligent creative thinking people around. Humans in the main are a very clever lot.

There are few oiginal ideas that have not been thought of tried and tested many times.

You repeat that which has been repeated many times by many people scince the dawn of time of game making - suggestions of utilising originality and cerative thinking in the game making process which we all understand.

I suggest you buy FPSC and try putting make your ideas into reality. I can tell you it aint that easy. It will get better and easier - hopefully.

When it comes to FPSC or eny indie engine for that matter its been said it many times - easy to say not so easy to do.

Good luck to you anyway and we look forward to seeing your game making progress with FPSC.

"I am and forever will be your friend"

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xplosys

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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 18:47

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His idea that interested me was the idea of not competing with game industry, but finding our own little niche. At least that is what I got from it.

Many here are trying to create the next great FPS in the footsteps of giants. Perhaps we should be thinking outside the box and trying to create something different.
Pencil Whipped comes to mind. The graphics did not have to meet any criteria. They were conceived in the mind of the creator, not replicated from life. No one said "That doesn't look like a real paper world." The game play doesn't have to follow the conventional "around this corner will be more bad guys" way of thinking. The characters don't have to be true to life. Some are already working with mythical creatures of their own design.

Anyway, it's not for everyone, but it's got me thinking.

Crazy Grandpa

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uman

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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 19:20 Edited at: 9th Aug 2006 19:29

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xplosys,

Quite,

Never been anything stopping anyone from taking FPSC or any engine and making a game with niche, original or high stylised approach to any aspect of it.

Lons work is a point in case here though people usually for good reason choose an engine which is particularly suited to making a game type its designed for - hence Shooter engine for shooter just because its designed to make that kind of game making easier.

Even Lons game is a shooter despite being of an a very original nature content and gameplay wise. You notice that Lon is currently having problems using FPSC for his endeavours - FPSC aint easy to use, maniplulate and get flexible results for many game types or achieve unduely unorthodox results over and above what its designed to do. Its just very unkind and inflexible - apart from having lots of issues too.

Still I agree with you and fallen one as to the general thrust of the thread.

Think creatively and try something diffrent is always a good idea from what you and others may learn from it.

If FPSC ever becomes more flexible overall then we will see many more original ideas for use I am sure as users think of ways of utilising the flexibility to advantage.

Currently users dont have to stick to shooters exclusively - FPSC could be used for an environment to build many kinds of games and 3D presentations or apps - from puzzles to 3D walkthroughs of Museums, Galleries and alike - and much more.

As a 3D world environment you could place many kinds of objects in the world to display from animated industrial machines to vehicles.

It could concievably be used for many types of commercial or fun environment presentations that you can walk through or not if you wish to make it so.

Think Jetpack and you may well be able to fly through it successfully too - though you may have just a little additional work to do there to perfect your need. By flying you could even - just use it to record video flythough demonstartions.

The list goes on.

Normally one would use a program specifically desigend for a particular purpose as it should be better suited to achieve an end goal - but theres nothing stopping anyone using FPSC for something else other than a shooter or even using it to make a highly stylsed and original looking shooting game of any kind that uses a highly original or different approach to both the content amd gameply itself.

Go for it.

"I am and forever will be your friend"

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Tom0001

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Posted: 9th Aug 2006 23:02

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Fallen one,

Yes, good luck. If you do buy FPS Creator and want to try some of those ideas but have some trouble, don't hesitate to add me on msn:
tkingston@hotmail.co.uk
and ask. Also, remember you can always search the FPS Creator forums, or read the FPS Creator Manual, which will be in the directory:
C:\Program Files\The Game Creators\Docs\FPS Creator Manual.pdf
after you buy FPS Creator.

Tom

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fallen one

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Posted: 11th Aug 2006 01:47

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I downloaded the trail, I found it a bit clunky, I only looked at it briefly, seems you have no material browser to change textures, no viewpoints, only top view, you can only build on one plane, so not multi story buildings. It seems harder to build due to its limitations.

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FredP

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Posted: 11th Aug 2006 03:30

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Quote: "I downloaded the trail, I found it a bit clunky, I only looked at it briefly, seems you have no material browser to change textures, no viewpoints, only top view, you can only build on one plane, so not multi story buildings. It seems harder to build due to its limitations. "

You can change the texture (provided you have another) when you edit the entity.
You can build up to 50 levels high and I personally have built a six story level and there are those who have built higher.
When you go to edit the entity it changes the view so you can make adjustments to the entity itself though when making a level a top down view is what you use.

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