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Geek Culture / Visual C++ 6 / C++ .Net

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BoB Vila
21
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Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: United States
Posted: 8th Apr 2003 22:43
Does C++ .net use runtimes? Or is it the same deal as VC++6 with an enhanced ide..

I'm just wondering if VC6++ is microsofts last real compiler. Or am I off base here... Will .Net be faster than studio 6?
Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
Shadow Robert
22
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 8th Apr 2003 23:31
C++ .Net has several compilers in it... one does export runtimes, i mean i wouldn't be surprised if DarkBasic Professional was coded in C++ .Net - i know that atleast Rich as .Net Studio, so its not unlikely the rest of the team doesn't. But then it depends on the preference of Mike & Lee, cause like me they may prefer the 6.0 IDE - on the surface not that much difference, but enough to make it a little nagging at times.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
BoB Vila
21
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Location: United States
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 05:09
so.. C++ .net is a good buy?

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
BoB Vila
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Posted: 9th Apr 2003 05:10
another quick question I forgot to ask.. Does C++ .net programs require the .net framework.. or can you still write programs that don't require the framework?

Bobvila.com made me take off my avatar! (dunno how they found out)
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 06:11
DBPro is coded in VC++ 6, we do have VS.NET but DBPro was started before this was in wide-spread use so it carried on that way.

VS.NET requires the framework to install, let alone write anything with. The compilation options available however probably allow for non .NET apps, but I can't confirm that. I only code in C# and thats .NET only.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Martyn Pittuck
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 11:01
I gave up on the .nets after talking to Raven for 15 mins. I gonna learn C++ through Dev-C++ then gonna find a copy of Visual Studio .net.

It only costs £100 so pretty good price considering...

The Outside is a evil place to be, too much light, too much noise and too many distractions....
I went outside once and my FPS rate dropped to 5.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 17:44 Edited at: 9th Apr 2003 17:47
C++ .Net is a good buy... Mofux's DoeMox engine has been programmed in .Net the framework is needed, but Win9x and NTx updates include framework 1.1 (so as long as you have the lastest updates your golden) XP and 2000 come with frameworks 1.0 and 1.1 respectively. (with the exception of XP Home OEM which has 0.9 or something)

however i'm pretty sure that if you don't have it installed VS .Net installs it for you ... but it isn't a small installation by far, you should make sure you have around 7-8Gb free - C++ on its own i'd suggest around 2Gb
most of this is more due to MSDN Library, but the programs are alot bigger than thier predessors - 7CD/2DvD's so you can imagine how large it is

it doesn't work any differently in everyday operations to C++ 6.0 so if you can afford it get it, because it does have the added support for certain things ... suchas MFC42x extentions - a more indepth Class Wizzard - better function and object detection - better library setup and development - more templates, i mean essentially on the surface the same but alot of little differences.

[edit-]
forgot the link hehee should checkout what Mofux is upto these days because he's been doing some cool within Consoles, UI Menus, Software Shaders, Terrain Editing, etc...

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
MrTAToad
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 17:55
The only think I have against VC.NET is the layout of everything - its pretty awful now. Adding message handlers is a pain too...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 18:12
yeah i know ... kinda why i stick with VC++ 6.0

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
MrTAToad
22
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 9th Apr 2003 18:13
Same here too really...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
David T
Retired Moderator
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Location: England
Posted: 11th Apr 2003 20:14
For some odd reason I alsolike VB6 instead of VB.NET ... perhaps VS 6 was so good no-one has migrated over (I know MS aren't happy with numbers who have).

You are the th person to view this signature.
Programmers don't die, they just Gosub without return....
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 11th Apr 2003 21:01
Actually i think its more a price thing...
Visual Studio 6 has been around $600 for almost 4years now, whereas Visual Studio .Net is around $1,400 for essentially same thing.

the gap between Visual Studio 5 and 6 was a matter of 2years, the gap between 6 and 7 was half a decade - its not entirely surprising why so many people just refuse to use the new version as essentially it is the same, but with the extensions... so alot of people decide, why you the new updated one which doesn't actually have a great number more features when i'm already used this this one

for my Visual C++ 6 is just simpler to achieve certain things, and the fact that the intergration isn't the same as a Visual C++ 7 project is good ... but that said no doubt in a year when 2004
update of .Net is release most will start to migrate as they're adding features and giving it what they should've done last year.

personally i prefer the Visual Basic .Net to any of the others because it has actually changed to be more friendly, whereas 6 is roughly the same as 5 and 5 is close to 4 and 4 is almost identical to 3... i mean with the exception of some basic features added the actual usuage of Visua Basic hasn't changed in almost a decade.

well not that it matters to someone who hasn't used any of them, they're lucki because they're not used to anything and the choice is more about price than usage because they're not accustomed to anything

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
IanM
Retired Moderator
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 11th Apr 2003 21:35
A few points:
You can get VS.NET (Professional) for under £400.00 per seat if your company or the company you work for is a software house.
VS.NET does need the .NET framework installed to run, but the C++ applications you make don't have to use the framework.
VS.NET professional comes on 5 CD's (including the framework), Enterprise comes on 7 CD's.
Neither VC++6 or VC++.NET need runtimes unless you use MFC, ANSI-C libraries or the Framework, which means that you don't need to install runtimes if you are just using the API and STL.

VC++.NET over VC++6
Better standards compliance - lots of freely available code libraries won't work without massive changes and workarounds on 6.
Faster running programs (5 years of improvements in the optimiser).

VC++6 over VC++.NET
Cost! You may be able to find VS6 cheap from somewhere.


I currently have 3 C++ compilers installed on my laptop:
1) VS.NET of course, for windows programming.
2) Cygwin/GCC for a unix-like development environment (the company I work for mainly targets unix systems).
3) Digital Mars - you've probably never heard of this one, but it's a VC++ compatible compiler that seems to be moving forward towards standards compliance faster than VC++ is - unfortunately the editor is pants , but it does produce smaller exe's than VC++ and can compile to 16 bit code too.

As you can probably tell, I believe that standards compliance is important. There's nothing I hate more than writing the same piece of code over for another OS ... and maintenance of it is worse!
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 11th Apr 2003 22:30
right now i have VS .Net & VS 6.0 on here + Codewarrior, Cygwin and SNSys ... if you're only developing for Windows/DirectX/.Net based systems Microsofts is still one the best compilers around

i'm kinda hopeing that .Net '05 will include better cross platform support cause i generally dont do any code for Linux machines because i don't really like any of the other IDE's/Compilers.
probably why i've got ciyanna as an ongoing project so i can add the support i want.

hey having fun today, i'm playing about with Karma(MathsEngine) made a quicky plugin which uses the physics collision ... i'm having alot of fun throwing my ballman remake down the stairs (^_^)
but my plugins seem to collide with each other, so i can't use my menu system wit it - good i found it out before i got to far into it eh

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?

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