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FPSC Classic Product Chat / How many levels are enough?

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Hollywood
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 05:21
Well the questions is already stated, but i have a game with 10 levels so far and each level has about 3-5 floors. Now is this to many or not enough?



Hollywood

Thraxas
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 05:29
It all depends on what you're trying to achieve with your game... No one can answer that question for you...

You are the creator, so if the game is complete within itself and you are happy with it it's enough... If you think there is too much fluff take some things out...

I don't want to see a FPSC Professional!
Disturbing 13
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 08:00
What Thraxas said is entirely true. for the most part we independant game creators make our games for ourselves. So do what you think is best. You wil never please everyone so just please number one. But if your selling then don't make a bad name for yourself, and throw everything I said out the window; you don't want people to feel they've been ripped off. That's where nonbiased gametesters come in.

Jiffy
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 11:22 Edited at: 16th Aug 2006 11:23
I agree with D13 and Thraxas.

3-5 floors isn't very descriptive. About how many units does each floor cover? Project Luna (my game) is set up in eight "Episodes", which are simply just levels (in seperate .exes because of the Storyzone bug), but each individual level is moderately sized.

Personally, I also find that replayability is one of the most important factors as well. If your game only had five levels but people wanted to play those levels ten times over, you're better off than if you have a game with twenty levels and people only play it once.

To balance that out, you'll probably want a slightly non-linear structure and something that requires some skill and luck, so that even if the player knows where to go they'll still have some form of trouble getting to the end, while still having maximum fun.


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Van B
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 11:24
10 is a good number for FPS levels, it's really what people expect in this sort of game. It's not really the size of the level that is the deciding factor, but try and get all your levels to last maybe 20 minutes each, consistency will encourage people to play through your whole game because they'll be able to work out roughly how long it will take to complete.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
Benjamin A
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 11:47
It all depends on what you're planning on doing with the game.

1. Give it away for free? 10 is plenty.
2. Sell it for less then $5? 10 is good, but each level needs to take the player about 10 minutes to finish, otherwise the player will feel ripped off.
2. Sell it for more $5-$10? 10 is enough levels if you make sure each level takes over 10 minutes to finish. If not, add 2-5 levels to the game.
3. Sell it for over $10? 10 isn't enough unless each level takes far over 30 minutes to finish. Since that is doubtfull with a FPSC level, you have to shoot for at least 20-25 levels.

With each game, I'm shooting for at least 10 levels and at least 2 hours of game play. Sometimes I do end up with a less levels, but then it takes a long time to finish each level. Often I add more levels to it. My goal is most of the time the $5-$10 market segment.

Just going back to the length once more. You can easily obtain a long playing time for the level, by building a complax maze like level and let the player walk around for a long time. BUT that isn't the idea of a long playing time. That is boring and the player looses interest pretty soon. The player needs to encounter action of some sort, be it through enemies or smaller objectives he has to accomplish. People rather play a 10 minute action packed level, then 30 minutes with hardly any action at all.

With some of the FPSC games I've tried, boring has come straight away to mind. Nothing happening at all. Walking around a level, searching for a key for over 5 minutes, with nothing else happening and the same pattern repeated time after time. THAT IS BORING. That will kill the succes of your game.

Make the levels entertaining, things happening and then even a shorter level is well worth playing.

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uman
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 16:52
Humans can never get enough of a good thing and therein lies the crux of the issue and the answer to the question.

If you can design a game that can hold the attention consistantly throughout it dont really matter how big a game is. True to say a change is good as a rest but to have any chance of holding the attention and interest of a player throughout a large game it has to be good with content that will constantly involve the player in an appropriate way challenging, rewarding and generally making the player feel good about it all.

Few games ever have met such a criteria and individuals each and all will require somewhat diffeent things if one is to meet with their aspirations so its a very difficult assessment.

Achieving the objective over a large game made with FPSC will require much creative thinking, design planning and effort.



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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 17:50
How can Ben's post be longer than yours, Uman? I wouldn't pay attention to the number of levels, and concentrate on the story and the game design document. Then worry about how to consolidate them into 'X' number of levels.

-Keith


Benjamin A
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 17:54 Edited at: 16th Aug 2006 17:58
Quote: "How can Ben's post be longer than yours, Uman?"


Because I've got 2 weeks off and plenty of time

I totally agree with the design part. But if I payed money for a well designed game and the fun is over way to quickly, I still would be very dissappointed. In the end a good game is a total of all these factors mentioned. It needs to be well designed, have a good story line (although some games can actually do without), nice gfx, good gameplay and reasonable play-lenght.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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KeithC
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 18:02
Don't forget re-playability, if it's possible.


uman
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 19:03
KeithC,

Fair and good specific point - everyone should include such an added bonus in their games and give a buyer value for their money - many modern commercial games do this.

It may mean more work initially but you should be rewarded next time you make the sequel.



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brummel
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 19:31
If you gonna have many levels in your game, like 14, you better make 2 .exe´s or it will be pain finishing the game. You may have to shut the computer of for some time.

My site is now updated with info and a teaser about my game The Peacemakers. My blog is now ready and i have written my first contribution!

Check it out now!
xplosys
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 20:19 Edited at: 16th Aug 2006 20:20
Good discussion and a lot of good advice and points made.

I think when you feel that there are enough levels to convey your game content/idea/concept properly, and the length of the levels seems good to you, then you will be done.

You are not only the game creator, but a player as well. When you fell good about it, other will too.

Crazy Grandpa
Benjamin A
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Posted: 16th Aug 2006 23:58
Quote: "If you gonna have many levels in your game, like 14, you better make 2 .exe´s or it will be pain finishing the game. You may have to shut the computer of for some time."


Good point. I actually did taht with my game. It has 14 levels, divided over 3 exe's. Works great and the player doesn't need to go through all of the 13 levels when he decided to stop at level 14.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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Hollywood
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Posted: 17th Aug 2006 04:24
Wow thanks for all your coments!! I really apricate and agree with about everything you have all said. Once again thanks for the help.




Hollywood

Benjamin A
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Posted: 17th Aug 2006 11:51
Wow someone who agrees with everything that's being said.... we don't see those around here to often

Well jokes aside now, you're welcome

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.

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