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The 20 Line Challenge / A Question for Rich.

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Angeleyes
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Posted: 11th Apr 2003 18:28
Hi there Rich, I have a question for you.

It appears that your giving DBP users much more leverage than DBC users, and that strikes me as a little unfair. ^_~

The problem is that DBP can have much more than the 255 Characters on a line, whereas DBC is limited to only 255 Characters.

Even though you have limited the amount of commands to 25 per line, the way you have approached this is unfair as you do not take in to account the complexity of the command.

Put simply, someone using DBP can make a game in 20 lines using far larger command structures than the DBC programmer.

May I suggest that instead of this you do one of the following things:

A) Extend the 20 Line limit to, say, 25 for DBC users

Or

B) Place a Character limit on any DBP users to 255.

Either of these would help to address the balance IMHO. ^_^

Ta ta for now
Mary
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 11th Apr 2003 20:03
Quite frankly I just want to see what people can do in 20 lines of code. I couldn't care less how many commands per line they use. The second you introduce a control condition into a line you effectively limit the use of that line any further, this will effect DB and DBP.

I wish everyone would stop worrying so much about "how much of this" and "how much of that" and just get on with coding something!

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
Chiwawa
21
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Location: Canada
Posted: 12th Apr 2003 01:09
im not sure i understans this:

"The second you introduce a control condition into a line you effectively limit the use of that line any further"

why?...
if you do:

if condition:instruction1:instruction2:endif:instruction3....

am i..complety..out of the track?
The Darthster
21
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 15th Apr 2003 00:58
I think Rich meant:

If condition then instruction:instruction2

Anything after the 'then' colon (ie instruction2) is used in the if command, but clever coders use if:endif to get round that.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
Angeleyes
20
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 23:32
Well I understand Rich, but I still think IMHO you need to cap DBP by either letting DBC users have a few extra lines of code or (maybe better) limit DBP to the same amount of characters per line as DBC.

Look at the 3D Pacman game. It sounds great, and Im sure it is, but the lines are HUGE!

One on them have over 7000 characters on it!

Now please, lets be fair here.

I you were just break the lines of code down into the DBC equivalent, you find that a "20 Line Challenge" goes into 80 lines!

Its like saying, "All DBP users can use sound, music, animation and any bells and whistles they want... But DBC users are text only in 256 colours!"
LOL

Even though DBC users can produce some great 20 lines programs, they can never hope to achieve the same as DBP because of the massive discrepancy in line lengths.

I know you just want to see what can be done in 20 lines, and I know your not giving prizes away or anything, but I still think you should limit DBP to the same as DBC.

Ta ta for now
Mary

Chiwawa
21
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 00:12
...really ...DBPro user have...really the advantage..cause you cant stack..more than 255 caractere in DB... and ...

-"The second you introduce a control condition into a line you effectively limit the use of that line any further, this will effect DB and DBP."

is not real...if you do :

if condition:instruction:endif
Conrad Brown
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 01:05
I think Rich meant 'Stop whinging and start writing some cool stuff!'

If you're that bothered about not having the same freedom as DB-Pro users, THEN BUY DB-PRO! SIMPLE!

Chiwawa
21
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 01:38
i was thinking..to another word than BUYing
andrew11
20
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Location: United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 03:46
He is giving a prize. A free DBDN membership.

All programmers are playwrights and all computers are lousy actors." -Anon.
Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 04:03
"I think Rich meant 'Stop whinging and start writing some cool stuff!'"

Damn right

"i was thinking..to another word than BUYing"

I was thinking.. to another word than 'honest'

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
Angeleyes
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 05:48
*Sigh...... Ok fine.

Mary
(Rich.."I was thinking.. to another word than 'honest'"..meaning what?

Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 06:47
Meaning the way it was said implied that he was thinking about acquiring DBPro by means other than buying it. As that is the only means of getting it 'honestly' any other conclusion leads to piracy of some kind.

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
Chiwawa
21
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 10:27
wow..... NEVER...
i was not thinking to piracy.... or warez or...anything like that..
i was thinking to.....win it... because of my .e.e.e....hmmm...hmmmm
hmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

......... yeah ..because..of my........because you should give me a price.......for ........e.e..ee..... you know......
cusoi
21
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 22:57
I... hmmmm... hate ehm... your... '.''s and 'hmm''s. Why do you do that all the time?

Pentium IV 2.4 GHZ 256 MB Ram Geforce 4 TI 4200 128 MB
www.cuso.tk
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 23:07
if i answer:
i hate you, why are you?

what will you answer?
cusoi
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 23:12
I'm not English and I don't understand your question "why are you". But what I can say is that I don't hate you. I just don't like the ...., it makes your sentences so unreadable. But I don't hate you, I don't know you, only from the forum, so I couldn't tell. I just think it's a bit annoying, the ...'s. But if you like doing it, I can't and won't stop you.

Pentium IV 2.4 GHZ 256 MB Ram Geforce 4 TI 4200 128 MB
www.cuso.tk
Chiwawa
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 23:43
its only an habit...instead of writing finished sentense ..i write just one sentence with "..." when i am thinking or... if i wanna make a king of new ..sentence

anyway..the last post (the one before your first) has more "..." and "hmm" i was just joking...

maybe im crazy..and nobody understand my joking style...
maybe cause im not english im french...and you?

and the question "why are you" ..was meaning ..why r you alive..or why do you exist ... did you ever eard the sentense : "i think, then i am" ....i dont know if you say that in english..but in french....its......................
cusoi
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 00:02
it's ok I'm dutch

Pentium IV 2.4 GHZ 256 MB Ram Geforce 4 TI 4200 128 MB
www.cuso.tk
Great Knight
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 02:23
I can care less About 20 lines or not. Only if the code works I am happy.

AMD Atherlon 2400+ XP, 380 DDr memeory, ATI Radeon 9000 64 DDR.

And a Katana.
KamaKase
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 15:55
I used to do "..." and hmmmmmm, all the time... Still do infact, plus I sometimes rip of other peoples logo's and doodle on them, but not for a long time. This is all proof of how old Chiwawa is. I won't embarrass him by divulging into this integar.
I will, however, say this. That the reason that you couldn't understand RTSpider what he said is because it was nonsensical.
I do, though, agree with Rich on the matter in hand.
If you want the extra characters buy DBPro, there are millions of these cases all over the world. "Register for this much and have half price" etc.... Don't like it??? That's life.
Chiwawa
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Joined: 13th Oct 2002
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2003 23:50 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2003 23:51
ooo you make me feel ....so sad ....
..and yeah you r right... im only 7... dont be too strong with me...
plz...
Witch Bomber
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 02:13
If you seriously think you can win the 20 line challenge you can afford to get DBPro
I will give examples using UK prices.
DBPro costs £50.
If you win the 20 line challenge you get lifetime membership in DBDN
That is worth just over £88 a year, after VAT.
If you live say 50 years that is worth just over £4400. So you can afford to pay out £50.

Visit the new Madd Matt Games Website
http://www.madamattgames.o-f.com/index.htm
Home of Witch Bomber,Magic Cube and Pinball Football(and a lame website)
Chiwawa
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2003 04:04
maybe ill be able to buy it ..this spring....
cause for now i have my rent..and food to pay..
and i dont work for now,school take all the time..... then im a littlebit out of cash...
Eric T
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Posted: 27th Apr 2003 20:21
what i think is that some people don't have money too buy dbpro, but in order to win the 20 line challenge some dbc users would probably download the warez version of darkbasic pro, or even get the crack for the trial version, so if you were to limit the dbpro to 255 characters per line you will thus allow db them selves to make more money so there programs aren't obtained for free.

I always win don't you know that?
Programming RPG games in Dark Basic
Since 1999.
Pyro
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 05:31
Rich, what i am about to say i consider it a constructive critiscm, i mean, i know that i haven't been in the community for a long time, but the logical part of my mind tell me this:

I think is great you want to make people "just start coding", is great since we need more coding in the community, but a contest is a contest, a challenge, is a challenge.
Is very unfair that, when you are offering a prize, some members in the community gets to win it easier than on others.
Why? Well in "my opinion", the first reason is because when members of the community seems that for other users is easier to win this prize, will just get dissapointed, and wont code so you "just get on with coding!" will be harder too see.
The second reason why this is not good, and more for dbpro sanity, is because of what Yusuke say.
"Man..having a dbn account, but is so hard with db...oh what the hell i will just download pro and use the crack , who will know anyway"
Sorry Rich, i have always love your work in here and your support with the community, i just think this is a bad movement.

"The ideas are in your head, you just gotta work like a dog and put them into code"
Pyro
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 05:34
Oh and chiwawa...sigh...chiwawa....mmmmm..err....mmmm...errrr.....i hate you...err...mmm....Hijole te deberias...errr...ir......este...no eres...este...bueno para la comunidad...errr..gafo...leave...hmmm....
I hope you find me annoying chiwawa, so you stop acting like...you... I was thinking.... to another word than living

"The ideas are in your head, you just gotta work like a dog and put them into code"
Dave J
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 08:27 Edited at: 28th Apr 2003 08:28
"i think, then i am"

In English it goes something like "I think therefore I am", I believe it has some sort of religious ties.

yusuke200013: Someone that's going to download it from a warez site isn't going to buy DBPro just because the competition is limited to 255 chars per line or not. I honestly don't see this playing too much of a big part in someone's decision to buy the product.

Now to the issue on hand, DB is outdated and an older iteration of DBPro so it's obvious it has its disadvantages. Do you think they're going to change the rules of say, a Tennis Match just because one player's racket is older and not as well-built as the other players?

Despite the 255 char limit for DB users, I personally think it's completely possible for a piece of DB code to win the competition - I believe the challenge is based more so on gameplay then graphics, sounds and special effects which gives DB just as much of a chance then DBPro.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
The Darthster
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Posted: 28th Apr 2003 20:14
'I think, therefore I am' is to do with philosophy. Rene Descartes wanted to philosophise, but couldn't start until he was sure he existed. He came up with the idea that if he was able to consciously think, then he must exist, hence, 'I think, therefore I am'.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I only used DBPro for my various entries because I wanted to try out the new features and show off what I could do with them.

Once I was but the learner,
now, I am the Master.
Dave J
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Posted: 29th Apr 2003 17:00
Yeah, that sounds about right, I remember it from the movie Blade Runner, a lot of the other quotes had to do with religious meanings. I was probably thinking of the "Fiery the angels fell" quote which has something to do with Lucifer rebelling against God, and hence falling to Hell. Then again, I may be completely wrong again.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Witch Bomber
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Posted: 3rd May 2003 22:10
Pyro: I have to agree it is unfair but it is the same in practically all sports these days.
You need money to get dbpro and have a good chance, but how many sports are there where money doesn't play a major part?
To get into the SPL in Scottish Football teams worth only £1million need to spend almost £10million on a stadium (that they will never fill, even on a derby game) to meet requirements. You just have to accept that life's not fair.

Visit the new Madd Matt Games Website
http://www.madamattgames.o-f.com/index.htm
Home of Witch Bomber,Magic Cube and Pinball Football(and a lame website)
ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 6th May 2003 12:58
What is everybodies problem - look at crazy ball - won the 20-line challenge last month and it was doen in DBC - And it is very playable!
Currently I think DBPro is a little pricey, but ill still pay £50, just grudgingly!!

We are borg... You will be assimilated - Your technological distinctiveness will be added to our own... Resistance is futile!
Dave J
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Posted: 6th May 2003 17:21
Wasn't that before the new rules came to pass? Or before most people knew about them.

"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."

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