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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPSC Update V1.02 and the speed issue

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uman
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 21:35 Edited at: 5th Sep 2006 21:38
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Heres a link to a pic in My Screen Shots Thread in the Showcase Forum of a in level shot taken in V1 :

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=941748

fps shows at 31 frames per second.

Attached via the view button here is a pic just taken following installation of the FPSC Update V1.02 - this screen shot is in the same level location and the same room view though just slightly different - in fact theres less in view.

You can clearly see the fps is now 13 frames pers second - over 50% lower than the V1 shot. Those figures It seems speak for themselves and I dont really know what else to say.

Apparently V1.02 has not fixed this speed issue at all and In testing of two separate levels I found no significant difference over V1.01 with both levels still returning fps seriously lower than V1 speeds - Most often between One third to Two thirds lower than V1 - in large areas of the level (not large rooms) where I was getting a normal 30 fps I am now getting 12fps or less consistantly.

Bearing in mind these are V1 levels I dont think I am going to spend another six months re-building new levels of the same complexity to prove or disprove TGC saying that this Update now fixes the issue - as the saying goes - does not work for me. I just cant go anywhere with it.

Been waiting like everyone else and personally waiting for an update with my development on hold and it looks like I have no chance it seems of getting back to level building for the foreseeable future.

Just reporting my personal findings of course it may be different with others.

In the meantime I will for the updates to the updates to continue and blissfully hope for some major improvement.

Good luck all.



"I am and forever will be your friend"

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 21:43
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Uman, can I ask, are you getting the low fpsc in a test game or the fully built game. I have the update of 1.01 and when I tested a level I had 33fps.
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uman
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 21:47
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Test



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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 22:07
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I've pointed Lee to this thread. I've only ever echoed here what he's told me, so he can respond for himself from now on!

Personally I've seen no difference between any of the versions (1, 1.01 and 1.02), they all did the same. But as has been shown here, your mileage obviously varies.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 22:09
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Hi UMAN, could you try out the SCIFI level that comes with FPS Creator in V1.0 and V102 and report the frame rates you get on both in the TEST GAME, while looking through the window of the prison cell? If you could email me a level of your game (with all media), I can run my own tests and analyse why your level runs much slower in V102.

Does anyone else find V102 has not solved their speed issues, as I think it a good idea if I am sent the level files (plus all custom media) so I can perform the actual speed tests first hand. Also, if you would like to help me test the speed issues in beta-mode, we can exchange emails directly and get these niggles ironed out, thanks My email address is lee@thegamecreators.com.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 22:21
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Lee, I dont have the fps issue, but I do have another. Characters and weapons are really screwed up, characters are way bigger than they should be and they are also black and white. Weapons have their uv maps messed up.

Screen shot attached, this was using the 1.02 update.

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mrniceguy
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 23:04
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Hi Lee, I have tested scifi-1 (32 fps),scifi-2 (25 fps) and terrorstrike (fps 31) with the V102 in TEST GAME mode.

Hope this helps solving the problems.
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 23:10
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Did you build the games or did you test them? I think the issue may be case sensitive to build and test modes.

RF
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 23:23
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Ive just tested the scifi-1 game and I had 3fps with loss of ingame media. Screen shot attached:

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gps
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Posted: 5th Sep 2006 23:31
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SciFi 1 test game, while looking through the window of the prison cell:

v1.00 - 20fps
v1.02 - 12fps

I have a low end machine, (AMD 1.8Ghz) and the scifi demo level always chugged a bit, but with both v1.01 and v1.02 it is noticeable more sluggish, with single figure frame rates at some locations.

Also, both v1.01 and v1.02 seem to have killed physical sound effects, by which I mean those sound associated with dynamic objects. Oil drums and boxes can now be thrown around in complete silence. This applies both to the stock FPSC entities and the new Model Pack 3 items.

I don't know if this helps, or just makes things more confusing, but with v1.02 I've also lost footstep sounds on all Model Pack 3 segments.

The multiple textures in MP3 are also glitchy, for instance the cargo containers work perfectly, but the pipe sections are using a single texture for the whole mesh, so you get a rust-coloured concrete support block and random panel lines and markings on the pipes. However, I can't say if this is an engine related issue, or a fault with the model.

Cheers

- Graham

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uman
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 00:13 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 02:10
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Sounds are affected with me too in similar ways.

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bond1
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 00:16
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Unfortunately I'm also having a speed problem, although not as bad as some people, but definitely noticeable during gameplay. I have v1.00 and v1.02 installed side by side on my pc, so I was able to do several tests between the two just to make sure.

With Scifi-1 level looking out the window:

v1.00 = 30fps
v1.02 = 24fps



While crawling through the ventilation duct:

v1.00 = 30-31fps
v1.02 = 24fps constant

My test PC:
AMD Athlon XP 2400
1 gig RAM (PC2700)
Radeon 9800 pro

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
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Red Raven Media
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 00:42
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When i used V1.1 Most of my entitnies didn't work and crashed. The only ones that truely worked fine were my things that i made. It got worse as it went on. First i couldn't use windows. Then i could not put a cup on a desk, then Colonel X didn't work. Then the program wouldn't even run. so then when i reinstalled the V1, it worked fine again. So i sent it in to technical support but all i got was a question then a closed case without any help. So it didn't work for me to well. So i really want to use it because it will fix it. But I have also learned not to use updates without giving them time for people to fix them so they work.
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bond1
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 00:51
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@Higgins:

I had some slowdown (see my post above) but I didn't have the problem that you show in your screenshot. Are you using the latest version of directx 9c, Feb 06 or later? V1.02 was compiled with the newest version of DBPro which absolutely requires Feb '06 or later version of directx.

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Red Raven Media
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 01:11
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DirectX's site has the latest version for free right now. I downloaded the latest just a few days ago and it works great.
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uman
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 01:19 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 01:29
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To LeeBamber,

I have two Sc-Fi games named Sc-Fi1 and Sci-F2 in the mapbank folder.

No idea which version these ones have been installed by.

Sc-Fi1 shows 31-32fps at round window at start

Sci-Fi2 shows normally good frame rates at average of 30fps.

On loading Both files return message saying media is missing.


Addition Testing :

As some have suggested there may be differences bewtween Test run and game compile versions I decided to build my most complex first level and try it - which had alwasy compiled fine in V1.

On attempt build compile this level to a game.exe I recieve an error message relating to the DBPro Enhancement Pack - Jpeg attached. On hitting return the Error Message dialogue box closes and the compile continues to its end as it should.

On runninmg the now resultant completed game.exe file I find that the compile has been erronous and I will attach a second jpeg showing the result shortly



"I am and forever will be your friend"

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uman
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 01:22 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 01:43
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Attached is the pic of the result of the level compile mentioned above into a game.exe.

As you can see Its at game start and I cant proceed as there should be an exit through the wall in front of player and also windows with glass - all of which are missing so no exit or continuance is possible.

I presuume the rest of the level would be in pretty much the same state.



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bond1
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 01:36
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Ouch...I'll confirm what uman has posted above, this looks like a showstopper for sure.

I get the same error, and after building the game it appears that the level and entities get scrambled.

Attached is a shot of Scifi-1 after building the game, there should be a window on the right wall and a ventilation duct on the left wall. You're stuck in this room...

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My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm

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uman
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 01:53 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 01:57
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bond1,

Thanks for reporting that.

Shows I'm not completely mad.

I sometimes think TGC and users dont believe me when I report my findings.

Scrambled is a good description of FPSC right now.

As it happens I am not going back to V1 now or ever so I am pleased to test and report stuff as these updates come along and hopefully get back to a better FPSC than previously it ever was however long that might take.



"I am and forever will be your friend"
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FredP
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 02:31
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When I tested v101 I had trouble loading some of my .fpm files...an illegal mmesh error.
So I built a game out of a level that I know works for sure with v1.
When I ran the the v101 built game there was some slowdown (the serious lag issue was gone but it was pretty much like watching a slideshow)and the zombies in the level became invincible (and one was floating).
Of course,that was the level I actually built into a game.
I went back through the level I built into the game and checked to see if I had unintentionally edited the zombie and made it invincible and checked to see if I had made the one that was floating float and it was no.
After I finally got v1 working again I checked tested and built the same levels over again and they were working just the same as before I installed v102.

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 02:36
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Bond, I have directx 9.0c installed, it wouldnt let me test the game without it. I dought that 3D Max had a role in making the issue worse, as I had it running while I tested the scifi level.
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Walking Dead Productions
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 03:08
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Fred, I kept getting the error: "Runtime Error 7003 - Mesh does not exist at line 3367" with the 1.01 and 1.02 updates, so I simply replaced the file "FPSC-Game.exe" with the one from v1.0 and it works fine now. Hopefully a new update will address this issue.

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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 12:42
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We should open this up to more than just a speed issue. Also the engine is not reading the texture information from the directx file. in v1 you could atleast use it as a dynamic entity. it appears that you can no longer do that.

My suggestion:

Remove the dependancy of seperate texture file from the engine, since the directx file has all of the info stored in it.


RF
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uman
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 13:04 Edited at: 6th Sep 2006 13:42
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RF,

V1,02 clearly has more issues than the just the speed issue some of which are perhaps still to be discovered - some things are interelated : i.e. one error is an indicator that there may be others due to underlying probs or incompatibiliies to V1.

Lee is now aware of the reason for some of the erronous behaviours causing V1.02 to lose media, content and so on which was seemingly the main problem causing havoc in those areas. Hopefully the next update will give you a fix for that.

The speed issue - there having always been one inside FPSC is another matter altogether - its a separate one and its nothing new - though one which has been affected adversley for presumably similar reasons of integration of new code and such like from other TGC software developments. Something like that anyway. Im no expert. I must admit I am not hopeful - but then Lee is a cleverer man than I.

From testing I believe the slowdown in fps in these updates is badly affected by NPC characters in my opinion just as it was in V1 - just the affect is greater so fps is lower. Its the very same problems of conflict or inefficiencies inside the engine so its unlikely to get better as the product progresses unless something of a major overhaul is carried out or the root cause found. If its just simply engine incapability of the engine then I dont quite see what can be done. Other Dynamic entities may have a much lower impact. Obviously high poly counts and so on have a part to play too but the AI is by far the biggest issue now that the SLI seems to be gone it should be faster throughout one might think but its not. I ended up last test stuck at 9fps.

Even without characters in the game currently fps is far lower than it was in V1 in the last tests I did so FPSC is basically unhappy and chugging along with an unknown major burden of some kind to carry so there are other factors involved. Characters destroyed and removed last test I ended up with around 19fps.

I just hope TGC dont just leave it as it comes and accept whatever fps it returns - but give it some radical stick. It has always been the most serious issue facing the product.


Must have more faith.



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 6th Sep 2006 14:56
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Iam going to uninstall fpsc, because I have nothing saved to work on, all my stuff is saved to a dvd from when I formatted.

Ill reinstall V1 and wait till fpsc is officaly out of beta, as thats how I see it right now, an unfished program with bugs and errors.
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 03:07
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Higgins! before you do that, see if your shader effects are pn, becuase i get stuff like that when my shaders are on.

_Ken sent me
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uman
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 03:46
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In an attempt to be helpful.

If you want to install the updates so as to report any findings then I am sure TGC would welcome the feedback here or in the Bug Report Forum - however unless you want to partake in that I would suggest you put installation of the currently available V1.01 and V1.02 updates on hold. They have issues and wont help you either in the short or longer term.



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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 7th Sep 2006 04:24
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I never use shader effects, Zaibatsu. I cant be bothered to beta test fpsc right now, I need to model my pack and complete the level for the contest. I would test it, just not this month.

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Red Raven Media
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Posted: 8th Sep 2006 01:17
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I'm not going to test it probaly on the risk of my computer. My computer has almost every little bit of my game design. Just incase a major computer bug happens for some reason. Plus I have other people on my PC. So i couldn't be able to test.
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