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Code Snippets / Simple Player Car World Collision

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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
24
Years of Service
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Joined: 21st Jan 2000
Location: England
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 14:47 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2006 14:54
Hi Guys,

Here is a simple program to demonstrate how to code a simple player movement and collision system, a third person moving object and a static world with the built-in commands (for those with a phobia of physics):



As payment for this code, please post your feedback on the following question. I am accused once in a while of being lazy and unhelpful, mostly by Support Mail users. Our general support mail policy discourages the answering the day to day coding problems encountered by users learning to program. I think this is a sensible policy, as we do not have the resources to enter into a teacher/student role, and depend on the vibrant forum community to fill this gap. My question is whether you, the actual community, agree with this policy? Should Lee spend his time in Support Mail teaching people how to code, debugging programs and writing samples to demonstate the use of commands? Or should Lee spend his time fixing DBP/GDK/FPSC bugs and creating new products? The source code above is in response to a support mail user and I would like to get a broader range of opinions as to whether my decision to focus on the latter is the right one.

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
Sixty Squares
18
Years of Service
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Joined: 7th Jun 2006
Location: Somewhere in the world
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 15:19 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2006 15:20
You should do a bit of both in my opinion, but mostly bug fixes. People have the forums here to ask questions. Anyway, the code you have posted does nothing on my computer. It makes some green blocks and stuff, but I cannot move. The car isn't moving either...

Ummm...
Zotoaster
19
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Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 18:09
I agree with the policy.... and the code wont work

Scraggle
Moderator
21
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Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 18:23 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2006 19:34
I also agree with the policy ... there are plenty of forum members here willing to help out with people trying to learn. You (and mike) should concentrate on the more important matters like bug fixing, new commands and new products.

I also agree with Zotoaster ... the code doesn't work
Turning off automatic collision for the player and the car will allow the car to drive and the player to walk around and collide with the green 'world' box but with the automatic collision on, the player and the car are colliding with the ground and are unable to move.

If you raise the position of the player and the car on the Y axis and turn the worlds collision detection to polygons then everything works fine


Mr Bigger
19
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Joined: 31st Jan 2005
Location: was here!
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 20:43
Hi,

I think your current policy is best.
Tossing us a bone once in a while in the form of a snippet and when time permits is always appreciated.
The forums have many helpful people and a great deal of answers if people would just bother to search instead of complain.

I believe an up to date help system might go a long way in quelling the e-mail uprising as some things are missing and the examples are to broad and confusing.

AMD 2600+/1GB DDR ram/GeForce 6600oc 256MB/W2KPro/DBPro 6.2
FROGGIE!
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location: in front of my computer
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 21:37
Its best if you are creating and fixing TGC software becuase thats goin to benefit more people than just the person you are helping through emails and forum threads. However i can see what they mean because the help files are really outdated and not very easy to look through (in my opinion) so maybe spend some of your time redoing them and including all of the new commands from updates and addons (i know this is a huge task but i think it would greatly benefit the community especially with updates). But i think you are right in what you are doing at the moment.

You should also check that these people who are emailing you are signed up to or know about the forums, because when i first started i didnt know about these forums and i have sent you and rich emails asking really simple questions that could have been easily answered on these forums.
JosephB
18
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Joined: 12th Sep 2006
Location:
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 21:46
I believe the policy is good, but when it appears many are having difficulty with a specific coding problem and solutions do not come quickly, then you should consider offering your assistance. The moderators might help in determining when your assistance would be most beneficial.

Thanks for the opportunity for input.
david w
18
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Joined: 18th Dec 2005
Location: U.S.A. Michigan
Posted: 23rd Sep 2006 23:47 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2006 23:49
I think that debugging the current software is best, the forum generaly anwsers most of the questions I have in a timely fashion. And I dont expect everything handed to me.

And since I know you are going to be reading this. I very much think that you really should put some time into the help system. Honestly the examples/explanations leave alot to be desired. Vauge descriptions are sometimes worse than no description. Also alot of the examples are so complex, that even I have a hard time understanding what the heck is going on and I have been using dbc since around 2001 and dbp as soon as it came out. Just keep it simple and straightfoward.

Also the example code has some bugs in it.

Thank you.
McLaine
18
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Joined: 20th Feb 2006
Location:
Posted: 25th Sep 2006 20:15
Concentrate on the software Lee.

You and TGC have and continue to develop an excellent programming tool. I don't think it should be your job to teach people how to code.

There's numerous resources on the net, in libraries, and in the noggins of many helpful experienced users on these forums.

I would go so far as to say that the plaintive is the one who is lazy, for it is my opinion that anyone with a desire to program can learn with a little effort put into reading and research.



It's not my fault!
Cash Curtis II
19
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Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 28th Sep 2006 10:34 Edited at: 28th Sep 2006 10:38
Quote: "Should Lee spend his time in Support Mail teaching people how to code, debugging programs and writing samples to demonstate the use of commands? Or should Lee spend his time fixing DBP/GDK/FPSC bugs and creating new products? "


Concentrate on the software, Lee. Most code problems are insignificant and can be handled by the forum users. Anyone that says you guys are lazy for not debugging their code should get their heads checked. Your responsibility is giving us a good platform upon which to code, not to waste your time with our code.

[Edit]
I tried your code, just for the hell of it. It doesn't really do anything. I try to move the player with the arrowkeys, but all it does is try to move the camera around, and it springs back into place when I release


Come see the WIP!
Alquerian
18
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Joined: 29th Mar 2006
Location: Reno Nevada
Posted: 28th Sep 2006 21:34
I agree with your policy as well, you won't get any work done on the code itself if you are answering programming 101 emails. A suggestion would be to take care of the IDE and Help files and I would imagine that the number of emails/complaints that you get would be reduced.

We all appreciate it when the admins take time out of their day to socialize with the commoners. Having an admin respond to your problems or forum postings is nice, but you can't respond to them all, you have work to do . Also the more you respond the more likely someone is going to ask you questions.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
VR2
19
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Joined: 14th Mar 2005
Location:
Posted: 29th Sep 2006 02:54
No its not your job to teach people how to program but it IS the responsibility of your company to make available information on how to get the very best out of YOUR language.

I mean, it's based on BASIC, sure, but mostly you just made up the commands & command arguments, and if you, as a company don't make it absolutely clear what these commands are and what they do and even how they can/should be used, then I wonder who will!

Surely you need to "get someone in" to do this for you, someone who does nothing but write DBP code all day long BUT IS NOT YOU or any other developer of the language. That person can then make it their mission to write examples and docs for all the dbp commands. It would be tedious in parts but I could think of worse jobs than writing DBP code all day, researching the commands, having easy, direct access to those who KNOW if he/she got stuck.
Zotoaster
19
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Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 29th Sep 2006 20:35
Quote: "then I wonder who will!"

This forum is filled with people who can help!

Syncaidius
19
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Joined: 22nd Mar 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 29th Sep 2006 23:02
I agree with Zotoaster.

indi
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 1st Oct 2006 01:51
keep making new products, squish those bugs.

answering programming questions could be a revenue stream,
via a set timed subscription.

Contextual support in this fashion would make the whole community more prosperous and the project completion percentage would look very healthy.

That would create revenues for TGC and the best dark basic coders as well as flourish the communities projects from the bottom up.
TGC could start a whole revenue of online teaching to new students willing to learn.
Teachers who understand a gaming style EG; shootem ups, action 2d could take questions
from the new students from this genre.

Logistically a machine with an IRC server and channels could be used, but a nice php chat room interface etc could be developed in time. In this context you book students to teachers in irc rooms with passwords etc..

That would be so cool, get DarkBasic in a box and a 3 month online teaching room,with a discount to upgrade it to a 12 month license.

It will greatly shape the way each new game developer will approach projects.

one little bug to a novice can have them stumped for days, and can make or break great ideas that become products and finally fun games.

Alquerian
18
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Joined: 29th Mar 2006
Location: Reno Nevada
Posted: 2nd Oct 2006 20:09
indi, I really like your idea here:

Quote: "answering programming questions could be a revenue stream,
via a set timed subscription."


I think offering a limited 'live support' chat area for new users would cut down on complaints and invalid bug reports. I have been guilty of filing invalid bug reports which have wasted people's time and that could have been avoided had I been able to access some sort of live-support area. As a TGC user, I for one would welcome a subscription based support solution. Say $9.95/mo for standard chat support.

It would be nice to have admins answer your questions when they arouse, I could see potential problems for US users as your US userbase is smaller and you have less US based admins to answer inquiries during our daylight hours.

This could also be put to use where there is a common chat area, where common users could chat it up about products or questions. This too would aid in support. The users could support the common area, where the admins could support the paying subscribers. I think all in all everyone would be happier. The only real issue I could see is having the station manned 24 hours a day.

Or say that whole idea is just too complicated, a subscription based email response system would not be THAT bad. TGC is undoubtedly looking for new revenue streams, subscription support is not a bad idea.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Cliff Mellangard 3DEGS
Developer
18
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Joined: 20th Feb 2006
Location: Sweden
Posted: 2nd Oct 2006 23:25
yes i agree put your efforts on the main products there is alot of talent in the forums helpiing people out.
Lani
18
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Joined: 14th Aug 2006
Location:
Posted: 4th Oct 2006 11:22
Certainly answering specific queries for specific projects should not be a job for the developers, the forums and many helpful people fulfill that role just fine, however I must admit that some of the help files are still not entirely up to scratch. The help files for Dark AI and Dark Physics seem quite alot better than those for the core language at least.

A paid access to support from those really in the know could be a possibility, personally I would probably use it, however given DB´s pricerange and general audience, it shouldn´t replace any of the current methods of getting help I think. Not that that´s anything I´ll have to bother with as it´s all TGC´s business, but since the question is out there, I figured putting my thoughts on it up couldn´t hurt.

Finally, DBPro is a great language for beginners / smaller projects, and with the addons such as Physics and AI it´s very powerful compared to it´s price.
Zotoaster
19
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Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 4th Oct 2006 19:33
Soooo.... thinking of getting your code fixed..

spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 4th Oct 2006 20:12
Policy is good but like everyone else says, get the help files sorted out once and forall with proper descriptions of all the parameters of each command and also in a language that can be understood by noobs and advanced users. Some of the 'new' help text is still hard to understand.

How is the new help files coming along as promised and shown in newsletter 40 (May 2006) that you said would be included in 6.1 ???

Now that Dark Physics and some other packs have been released I would hope another bug week for DBPro is on the cards soon - not many bugs to fix now but a few annoying ones in there causing problems for some users.

There are plenty of users, including myself, that answer newcomers problems all the time, so 'wasting' your time helping them is just time that could be much better spent.

Boo!
indi
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 1st Nov 2006 12:58
so what verdicts did you derive from this information lee >?

bosskeith
18
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Joined: 5th Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 2nd Nov 2006 21:35
My advice is continue as you are and keep on doing the tip of the month in the newsletters.Every now and then throw us a bone but do not let it be dictated by begging only when the urge is there.

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