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FPSC Classic Product Chat / I need a character modeling program

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Red Raven Media
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 04:57
I need a good program which will let me make good quality models like the FPSC ones or like a program bond1 uses. Because I have 3dCanvas and Anim8or. I only use Anim8or but it's only good for some stuff like furniture and guns, but i want to make characters too. Any suggestions, plz?
Mr Love
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 05:20
To make Characters in Max (Like Bond1) is not easyer than make them in Anim8or or 3dCanvas. There are no easy ways here.. Search on the internet "How to make 3d Characters" or something. Characters is the hardest thing to create in 3d, and there are no easy ways or programs.
Sorry!

I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Zaibatsu
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 06:29
he coudld always get "makehuman"

_Ken sent me
Benjamin A
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 11:05
He's not asking for an easier way to do so, he's asking for a way to be able to create characters.

You're right, 3dCanvas and Anim8or aren't the really suitable to create characters, well at least not the animations for it.

There's a application called milkshape, http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/ms3d/ and on the forums somewhere, there's a milkshape ready bones skeleton.

You can create your character in 3dCanvas or Anim8or and add the skeleton to it in Milkshape. There's a tutorial somewhere on the forums also on how to do so.

I'm in the process of doing this also, but it's not easy at all. But with the tools you have and adding milkshape, it may be possible to do so.

If not.... then you're stuck and should buy 3D Studio Max, it's only 4000 euros or so..... I'm still considering, but I'm not sure if that's the price I want to pay for making a few characters. For now, I'll keep on trying Milkshape. Bas thing about milkshape is, that it's not a standard application. I'm used to modeling, but Milkshape is the odd one and at times very frustrating to use.

As far as I know, Jon Fletcher may be using Cinema4D for his character (which is less expensive), but I'm not 100% sure and I'm not 100% sure if he will help you out. I've asked him, but he's not responding.

Bond1 on the other hand, has already given some tutorials for 3D Studio Max, also to be found on this board.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 12:04 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 12:05
There isn't any "Char only Modeling Program" but there are "Humanoid Model Packs" wich can have fully built humanoid models, or parts from humanoids (legs, arms, chest, heads, hands, etc.) wich you then connect to make you model, rig it, and there ya go.

Of course, this ISN'T cheap, don't except to find one for less then 250€.

Then, you got lot's of great modeling programs, Maya (best modeling app. on the market), 3D Max Studio (2º best modeling program, the interface is a bit harder then the one found on Maya, but it's the app. with most plugins avayable for free or payed, 1º of those plugins, wich i want to buy later on, is 3D Paint, wich let's you paint in real time, directly on the model (like photoshop, but integrated into 3d max studio, there are otehr plugins wich make it easier to make trees, humanoid models, and lot's of misc stuff). We finaly have Cinema3D the cheapest of this least, i heard it's pretty good, but i never tried it (i own 3d Max Studio 7, and my teacher let's me use in his laptop, Maya, sometimes).

For free, we don't find many 3d modeling programs wich are "kinda" easy to build humanoid models, we have GMax (kinda a low copy of Max Studio), it does the trick, but it lacks on lot's of feactures, MilkShape (never checked if it's free or not, much less it's feactures), Zmodeler, free and pretty good for car modeling for it's price (free, and yes, i know you asked for char modeling, but in case someday you want to make a car, you have this).

We then have another app. for medling, dunno the name right now (let me get home and i check it), it has a free version, wich is ment for HL2, you can build everything on that. Of course, you'll then need some other app. that transforms the model into *.X format, since this one doesn't let it do it. Lot's of hard work to make it ready for FPSC, but to compensate, it's interface is pretty easy. But like i said, the free version of this app. is ready for HL2 and HL2 only, you then need to work around to make them for other stuff.

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
Red Raven Media
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 12:47
ok thanks, I'll try and find the one that suits me best. Thanks
bond1
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 13:49
Quote: "Then, you got lot's of great modeling programs, Maya (best modeling app. on the market), 3D Max Studio (2º best modeling program, the interface is a bit harder then the one found on Maya"


Oh man...go post that at CG Talk or similar forum, I dare ya..

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 13:54
3D Max is the best, not Maya. 3D Max has been made so its easy to find what you need. Ive looked ay Maya before, and I got lost trying to make a box.

Benjamin A
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 15:02
Just wondering out loud.... how can some of you even afford 3DSMAX? Can you give me some hints?

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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 15:38
Work for it, or have your parents buy it, or win the lottery and buy 100 copies?

bond1
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 15:45 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 15:47
Quote: "Just wondering out loud.... how can some of you even afford 3DSMAX? Can you give me some hints?"


Well, students can get an educational discount. And c'mon, we ALL know that people obtain it by, ahem, other means.

I was a schmuck who actually bought it. I'm not a kid...and I'm fortunate enough to have a full time job that happens to pay well, so I can afford to do a little spending on myself here and there.

It was a lot of money to justify for just a hobby, but I figured what the heck, I love doing this stuff. It's so addicting once you get into it, and I've gotten my money's worth in enjoyment alone.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
DJ Professor K
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Posted: 4th Oct 2006 16:14 Edited at: 4th Oct 2006 16:16
bond1 whats the problem?

Higgins, for me, Maya has a way easier interface, AND i dunno why, if it's becouse i'm inspired or something like that, that all my projects done in Maya, look way better then the ones made in 3ds Max Studio (this isn't about interface, but about potencial or something mistical.... hey look an Elf).

And Maya is still known to be the best choise from the worlds greatest game modelers (need some names?)

To finish this, no, i don't have pirated copy, it took my 2 long years to get the money + i had a little help from my grandparents (they don't work, don't travel, don't do a thing, so they lend me the money IF i pay them back). For 2 years that i puted half of my monthlys paycheck money so i could finally afford 3D Max Studio 7.
It's worth it, i'm really proud of my work in Max, it isn't like the ones found on big game hits, i'm NOT a professional modeller, but i know i'm heading on the right way, practice makes perfect.

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
bond1
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 01:21 Edited at: 5th Oct 2006 02:07
Quote: "bond1 whats the problem?"


Problem? No problem here. You just stated as a matter of fact that Maya is the best modelling app, with Max being second best. I was just stating that this whole max vs maya thing been played out in lots of CG forums before...

Heck, if I had to pick a modelling program today it would be probably be neither, I'd pick XSI! It has a lot of cool stuff going for it. The only thing it doesn't have is the large user-base of max or maya.

Over at CG Society there is a cool video taking an objective look at the strengths and weaknesses of both max and maya: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=400281. In fact, the reviewer comes to the conclusion that Max has the superior interface.

In the end, its all up to how your brain works as to which one feels most confortable to you, so for me Max is "best", and maya clocks in around number 3 behind XSI.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
Red Raven Media
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 02:30
I have Anim8or for most things but I like Milkshape for model making
transient
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 04:13
If I were you I'd stick with Milkshape. It's a great noob app.

However, if you're looking for a straight modellor, Silo would be my pick at the moment. It's also cheap so no stealing is necessary.

Max is powerful but is a tool for uber-geeks and masochists imo. I don't intend to ever use it again, and I was a major Max zombie for years. Just my point of view.

I actually prefer gameSpace to max for modelling, but it is buggy at the moment so I'd wait for the new version before investing in it.

I also like Hexagon, which is also cheap, but is also buggy at the moment, so perhaps not good for noobs. Potentially a very powerful app, though.

I'm using Shade at the moment for work, and it also has surprisingly powerful modelling tools, and is also cheap (but definitely not a noob program).

Silo and Z-brush are generally considered superior modellors, but these are always subjective points of view.

I don't personally believe there's any universal truths when it comes to 3d apps, as Bond already suggested.
bond1
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 06:29 Edited at: 5th Oct 2006 06:54
I've seen a few tutorials done with Silo, and I have to say, it looks like it has an awesome workflow.

EDIT: Been taking a closer look at Silo...100 bucks! How can that be? Keep in mind you'll still need another program for rigging and animation. Also, for complex UV mapping (like a head) you'll need to export to something else.

But for pure poly-modelling it looks incredibly intutive. If I wasn't so deeply ingrained with max's workflow I'd be all over it. Heck I still might try out the demo.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom went to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://hyrumark.zftp.com/FPSC/hyrumarkfpsc.htm
Mr Love
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 10:09
"He's not asking for an easier way to do so, he's asking for a way to be able to create characters."

Well, good then.. Anim8or support Character making, and You can even rigg these Characters inside Anim8or, and then animate them...
(I know couse I used Anim8or before Cinema 4D..)

You can make rigged, animated, Characters in 3D Canvas as well..
I really dont understand what Benji says here, when both these programs works good for Character making.. You just need to know HOW to do it.

A good start is to read the manual...

I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Benjamin A
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 10:42
The problem isn't making and rigging the characters, the problem is getting the rigged character out of the application. Most of the applications mentioned lack the export features to do so.

If they would allow us to do so, we might see more animated characters around here. We don't since the problem is getting the animated character into FPSC.

Mr Love, I challenge you to create an animated cahracter in anim8or or 3D canvas or even Cinema4D and get it into FPSC and show it to us all, I'm very sure you'll fail to do so, but I'm open to suprises. If you manage to do so please tell us how you achieved it, since no one I know has managed to get get an animated character into FPSC using anim8or, 3D canvas or Cinema4D. The only ones I know that achieved this are using Maya or 3D Max.

So, put your money where your mouth is and show us how to achieve it and let this be no longer a dark secret.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
DJ Professor K
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 12:43
People, this is getting a bit out of hand, cmon, we gave already the suggestions, now he must choose.

Bond1 said the name of the last modleing program that i mentioned, XSI. It's a pretty good little app., but the free version is ready for only "HL2" (but like everything, there are "work around"), there are at least 2 payed version, wich give you a bigger range on almost about everything. So bond1, thanky




Anyway, i suggest (1 last time) you give a try to GMax, like i said, it's limited, but easy to use.

My love is seperated in 2 parts, 1 of them is 3ds Max 7, the other; FPSC.
transient
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 12:55 Edited at: 5th Oct 2006 12:56
I think Benjamin has hit the nail on the head.

However, I've managed to get animated models (not characters yet) into FPSC through Fragmotion, so perhaps this is a potential lifeline for some people.

Fragmotion can also open animated x files created in Blender and gameSpace. It also imports bvh data from Poser (I use v5), which is a surprisingly powerful character animation program.

Silo is definitely worth checking out, but if you're using max you would proably be better off waiting until v2 comes out, as v1 doesn't really seem to have that much over max.

I would also like to clarify that I don't think people who use max are abnormal or anything. Actually I admire anyone who can master it, it's a massive undertaking.

It's the weapon of choice for most serious game artists, I just seem to have more fun using simpler apps these days.
fik
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Posted: 5th Oct 2006 16:18
Cost wise for a professional standard program with most features of max and maya at a lot less cost, XSI foundation looks very good. It's about the same price($495) as educational versions of max/maya but you can use it commercialy which you can't in educational versions
Mr Love
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 00:29
Benji, I think You are a bit out of topic now...(This thread isnt about MY modelling problems..)


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Benjamin A
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 02:03
Nope... not of topic at all. It's a problem most of us face and are struggling with, but you seem to be able to help us.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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Red Raven Media
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Posted: 6th Oct 2006 02:05
Ok well I just want to let you know so far I've been making models for quite some time now so I'm not new to modeling, I just started character modeling and I think i did fine so far. I used Milkshape and I always never got the hang of it but I did finally enjoy it and I think it was fine but doesn't Milkshape support animation?

So really if some one could just give me a few milkshape lessons I should fine but does anyone know scripting? I kinda want to do some scripts
Mr Love
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 05:09
"The problem isn't making and rigging the characters, the problem is getting the rigged character out of the application. Most of the applications mentioned lack the export features to do so."

Well, sure I can help You with this.. What program are You using?


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Benjamin A
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Posted: 7th Oct 2006 10:51
I'm using Cinema4D v6

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Mr Love
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 01:01
Well, then You have to update to at least Cinema4D 6.3 -And when You have done that You will be able to use the Xport plugin.. (Search for "Xport Cinema 4D" to find the plugin.) You can always try to use it without an update, it might work anyway if You are lucky..(The Xport plugin let You export x-files that works in FPSC.) I dont know if MAXON still have updates for sutch an old version, but You might find it elsewhere on internet..
Good Luck!


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Benjamin A
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 01:14 Edited at: 8th Oct 2006 01:18
Tell me something I don't know yet.... I've got that far, but no animated characters in FPSC. The animations don't show up as soon as I tell FPSC I'm dealing with a character. Let's not even start about the texture being all in the wrong places.

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Mr Love
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Posted: 8th Oct 2006 03:19
If entitys work but not animations, Then it seems like Your version of C4D dosnt support animations in FPSC. Try with an animated model from darkmatter and export it with xport from Your Cinema 4D version.. If that dosnt work, then I dont think it will work at all...
I use C4D version 9.1, and I have most often no probs.. But why not rigg Your models in Milkshape, it has a great xfile exporter for FPSC...

I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
Red Raven Media
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Posted: 9th Oct 2006 23:06
i made a character in milkshape but i can't connect his peices to his skeleton
Rune
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 15:43
its all about 3ds max..

i have a tattoo across my stomach that says

3DS MAX 4 LIFE

Mess with the best....Die like the rest.

*Acid Burn*
FredP
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Posted: 14th Oct 2006 21:14
Quote: "i made a character in milkshape but i can't connect his peices to his skeleton "

That is because you have to assign the vertices to the skeleton.

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 15th Oct 2006 00:20 Edited at: 15th Oct 2006 00:23
Quote: "I have Anim8or for most things but I like Milkshape for model making "

You're half way home...

Quote: "i made a character in milkshape but i can't connect his peices to his skeleton "

...it's just around the corner.

I am having a hard time with MilkShape too, but EUREKA!
Today I finally managed to get a character rigged to Bullshock's Milkshape FPSC Bones and into FPSC.
Now I have a texture problem, but I can see him and the animations are functioning.
My rigging had errors of course with me being a riggin noob and all, but it works.

Like he said, assign the vertices to the bones.
If nothing shows up but the shadows, then you need to assign materials as well.
This is the point I am at, but I have no clue from here on its trial and error.
I think now that I underestimated MilkShape. It's actually pretty sweet.


Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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