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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / How Do I

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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:04
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How do I get Variables to ramain intact within functions, I have tried declaring them as global, Local, within the functions but every time my function is called the variables within it are reset to 0.
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Shadow
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:06
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You need to declare a global variable from outside the function

e.g. global monkeyboy as integer

function print_it_now()
print monkeyboy
endfunction
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TheCyborg
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:07
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try to Declare them as global in the beginning of your program...

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:08
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So their is no way to declare a variable within a function that keeps it's value, Other programming languages have this feature.

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TheCyborg
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:12
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If you declare it inside the function it will declared (and reset) every time the function is called

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:27
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depends what you want to achieve...
if you need a global and a function that can be called multiple times, then everytime the function is called again you're resetting the state of the variable, which it would be nice to have an ifdef, then we can check so that doesn't happen.

i'll show you what i mean



what happens is you've declared the variable, and globally so you can use it outside of the function... however to print the variable we run the funciton again right.

but instead of it printing 20, you'll get 0... why?
well because what you've done is redefined the MyVariable as a dword again which automatically resets its value as if you've not used it before.

you'll notice because if i alter the code like so


now it'll print 20
remember its not the language thats the problem but how you're trying to use it... if we had an ifdef we could then check globals prior to this like we can in C

with something like


i mean the program should be keeping track of the variables declared hopefully they'll add this later

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:36
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That would be OK if DBPRO had and ifdef command but it doesn't and it will not let you declare a global variable within the function anyways.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 18:50
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i've never had a problem declaring them within functions

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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solo
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Posted: 18th Apr 2003 19:52
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This kind of variable called 'static local variable' in C.
Static's lifetime is like a global variable, it remains in memory till the program ends, but it scope is accessible only within the function it is declared in.
A static variable keeps its value even if the function quits.

I never tried it with DLLs, but i think that a C DLL, with a function that declares a static local variable, could do that job.

In DB, in order to 'keep' the variable value when a function quits - just return that value, and pass it again in the next function call:

value = 0

do
value=function(value)
...
loop

function(value)
value=value+1
...
endfunction value


or use an outer functions global.


[solo]

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Richard Barnes
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 00:38
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Not to be a pain but it is not proper programming practice to set global variables and use them in functions. You should always pass your variables into the function as required. Not only does this make debugging easier, it will make you code more portable and concise.

Richard

"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."
(I'll either find a way or make one.)
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solo
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 00:51
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Richard,
That could be right if DB had pointers and the ability to pass arguments by address/reference as other languages, but with the lack of these - you can't avoid using globals...


[solo]

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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 00:58
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Well i am used to using a more polished language such as C++ or Pascal, I keep forgetting that DBPRO is just a toy compared to other languages.

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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 04:17
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Just remember that the B in DBPro stands for BASIC. It's a basic type language with a few extra features like functions, it's not a high level language like C or Pascal, don't expect it to act like one.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 08:27
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i'd hardly say DBpro is just a toy compared to the other language, it just a fact that it doesn't have exactly what you are used to at hand.

you'd use a global within a function the same way you'd construct a class within C++ ... thats the whole point in it, setting up the global pointer for information. Although i can't see the point in actually setting up a global value quite like that, you'd set the value then you'd set the pointer for the rest of the program.

i never have respect for the programmer that blames the language they're using for not being able to achieve something they want to, i think the efforts from a few of us around here suchas IanM, TATOAD, etc... should've show alot of you that far more is possible than you would think by just looking at the language.
if you don't have something you want then what kind of blasted programmer are you if you can't make a way to get what you want?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 13:31
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@ Raven

Has anyone blamed the language here, we are being constructive in every way in coming to a solution, & me saying it is a toy is just saying that DBPRO would not be used in the mainstream for the making of commercial programs.
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Soyuz
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 14:34
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@ Sedate Solution

Sure DB Pro won't be used for mainstream games as it stands but I can't believe anyone having bought DB Pro is under the illusion they'll be using it to go head-to-head with the big dog developers.

Well certainly not from a visuals point of view but I don't believe it's that hard to come up with a good idea for a game that could give em a run for their money - but this doesn't require an awesome programming language to achieve.
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 14:54
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@ Soyuz

I can't agree more, DBPRO is a toy but I can still come up with some great concepts without fancy graphics.
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pugmartin
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 17:03
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Sod it. Im more than happy with DBPro. There said it!

That picture actually is me you know...
Can anyone post me a banana?
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 17:57
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I think DBP has to main uses,

1) To exicite new programmers, who will hopefully continue on in game developement and make some great games working with 'mainstream' developers in the future.

2) For 'mainstream' development houses DBP offers a fast programming solution to use as a test bed to try ideas without wasting alot of time and resource, which later after a successfull sell pitch and funding they can invest the time and resources in developing it into a final product in C.


DBP is a tool, a tool to learn with, with no experience most people can pick up a book on basic learn the concepts apply that to DBP and then using some of the advance features have alot of fun.
Assuming the have a DBP compliant computer, lol. <-- That's a joke, so laugh.

As for Ravens comment on finding work around to make a language better, a language should be able to stand on it own. A new programmer comming to a basic language should not have to learn c++ to make dlls or plug-ins. You should not have to buy another language to make work arounds for this language.

DBP is a good language, but it's not developed but a lagre company. DBS does not have the resources Mircosoft or Borland or any other big developer has. You must bear with them as I'm sure they are doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

CTP

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HAL
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 20:21
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i've always saw DBpro as more of an engine than a language, does that make sence :-s
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heartbone
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 21:46
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CTP, DBPro is a much higher level language than C will ever be.

What C language implementation has a FORCE ANGLE command?
This command will use the current control device if it has force feedback capability. The command will force the device in the direction specified by the angle value and at a power of magnitude specified between 0 and 100. The delay value specifies how many milliseconds to sustain the effect of force. The magnitude and delay should be integer values. A delay value of zero indicates an infinite effect of force. The angle value should be a real number.
SYNTAX : FORCE ANGLE Magnitude Value, Angle Value, Delay Value

Or a CREATE PIXEL SHADER FROM FILE command?

Or SAVE ARRAY? Give me a break. DBPro is so far advanced over C it is absurd.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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solo
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 22:14
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heartbone,
give ME a break, and use your FORCE ANGLE on UNIX....
It seems that you know nothing about the industry.
A little respect to a language that is beyond your skills - would'nt harm you...

[solo]

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heartbone
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 22:18
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solo what industry are you referring to?

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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solo
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 22:50 Edited at: 19th Apr 2003 22:51
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hi-tech ofcourse, which else?

Do you have any idea on how many products and software are written in C to all available platforms, business and billing applications, multi tiers products including databases managements, security systems,games,compilers and on and on?

I can assure you that anything that DB has to offer - can be implemented in C, but you will never see a real-time system converted to DB code, and you know why?
because the main purpose of DB is to ease the directx programming,
and this purpose is limiting DB's abilities.
DB is so limited comparing to other languages, that your statement get me rolf.

Anyway, i have no bad words on DB, i like it and appreciate the work of the DB team.

[solo]

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Shining Moonblade
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 23:47
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*Bringing the conversation back to the topic*

Visual Basic could do something like that. Instead of having a global or ...etc type variable, you would definte it with:

static VarName as Type

Now unless you deleted the variable, each time you went back to that function it would hold the same data. Not sure how that helps you bring it to DBPro, but just thought I'd toss my two cents in.

The moon empowers my blade and commands me to destroy you all!
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CloseToPerfect
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Posted: 19th Apr 2003 23:52
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heartbone, you can use the allegro wrapper on any c compiler for most any direct x function you could ever want, plus all these features you speak of for db are written using visual c++ 6. What your really using is c++ with it's hands tied behind it's back because you have no low level control over these commands. It's not the commands I'm talking about it's the implemention of the language.

solo I agree with your comments and I as well have nothing bad to say about db, I've said before I like using DB. It's fun to be able to do this kind of programming using a basic language format.

CTP

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IanM
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 00:02
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*OK, on topic *

The only difference between a 'c' static variable, and a DBPro global is one of scope (the range of code that the variable is known to).

Do what I do:



OK, C does this initialisation step for you (*EXACTLY* like this, but behind the scenes), but it will give you the same effect.

*...and back off-topic *
As Raven said, the only real limitation on the DBPro language is what *you* impose on it - even pass-by-reference is possible with a little effort!
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heartbone
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 00:16 Edited at: 20th Apr 2003 00:20
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CloseToPerfect:"heartbone, you can use the allegro wrapper on any c compiler for most any direct x function you could ever want, plus all these features you speak of for db are written using visual c++ 6. What your really using is c++ with it's hands tied behind it's back because you have no low level control over these commands. It's not the commands I'm talking about it's the implemention of the language.

I was talking about the language DarkBASIC being a high level language. You can use many different things to accomplish your task. But I stand by my assertion that DarkBASIC is a much higher level language than C. You CTP are the one who typed
"it's not a high level language like C or Pascal, don't expect it to act like one."

solo I started progamming in C on UNIX in 1987, probably before you were born? Don't assume so much. When I asked what industry I expected an answer. You know like animation, engineering, medical-research, games programming. Of course I'm not as good as you, you being an Israeli and all.

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The more you know, the more you see.
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solo
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 01:21 Edited at: 20th Apr 2003 01:45
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heartbone,
1. don't full us with your rubbish. a real C programmer would never think of DB as an advanced language over C, unless he couldn't find a way in C for SAVING AN ARRAY...

2.DB being high level language doesn't mean its more advanced than C.
its only more advanced in a specific aspect, but as CloseToPerfect and other said, its like a layer on top of directx. without the directx functions - DB has no meaning!

3. personally, i never compared myself to you, you know you cant be good as i am, i'm an Israeli and so...

4. if you had bothered yourself to watch my profile, you would see i'm not so young, and so C language, so you may show some respect to us both.

[solo]

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indi
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 06:12
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ooh borderline racist remarks.

http://www.lunarpixel.com

http://www.lunarpixel.com/dt/
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Prime_8
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 08:09 Edited at: 20th Apr 2003 08:32
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MEMBLOCK DB functions
with that you can pass any value to any part of your app like a super global (or any other running app if you pass the pointer value of the membock). Just takes a bit of thinking on how to structure your app but then that is the point. you must know which memblock is for what , and if it is composed of multiple values you are managing.

I have been away from DB for a while but i did get the DM addon for BDC. and i remember using it as my way of stepping out side teh bounds of local and global scope. The memblock is a object in DB and aslong as you pass the correct memblock # to your function. Then your function can populate it's local varyables from the fingerd memblock. Or act directly on that memblock for instant changes.

just a thought ..

* slightly off topic part *

you know what would be nice .. If BDpro could accept C++ code in app. using compiler tags

IE

DBP code
#language C++
`some C++ crap
void MAIN()
{
`crap
}
#/language C++
DBP code

you could build your functions in C right in DB like my C++ can take ASM code if i warn the compiler ahead of time.

and coders who wish to do this must simply be ready to define all thier varyables ahead of time (for teh C code any how).

I like DB(C/P) ,I like teh DLL support wich is almost like getting to have c right in your app.

Old coder, returning to DB (DBP)
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Shadow Robert
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solo years of experience doesn't bring respect, nor does the language you use ... i can't believe how small minded a C programmer could be, i'd expect this from the Visual C++ programmer - but from a C programmer its just remarkably dumbfounding.

in fact i've never heard a professional before ever think along the line of "There is no command, therefore it cannot be done!"
Object Orientated Programming isn't available within DarkBasic Pro as standard ... but we have atleast one user at the moment who has a working framework for it.

C++ was born from C ... so does that make C++ a toy?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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solo
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 18:02
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Raven my friend,
i'm afraid you misunderstood and misjudged me.
If you read my comments, you would see it was not me who called DB a 'toy'. I disagreed with that statement.

I tried to 'defend' C language by claiming it can implement anything DB does, even if it doesn't have a command for saving an array, like Heartbone needs it to have.

About the respect thing, i only meant to the age level, and not the experience or usage language.
C is a mature language unlike full-of-bugs-DB, so at least on this point it could get more respect from people like Heartbone.
There is no competition between DB and C, i don't see why people should create such.

last thing, my attitude was derived by Heartbone's racist remark,
made that professional conversation becoming personal.
I should have asked Heartbone to respect human race, before asking him to respect a programming language...

A true apologie to the DB community for the last tones.

[solo]

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heartbone
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 18:57
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What racist remark?
Last time that I looked Israel was a country.
Now Israeli is a "race"?
I guess that "American" is a race too?

solo your uncalled for comment "It seems that you know nothing about the industry." was personal. I don't care to look at your information beyond I see that you are from Israel, a parasite on America, my home.

My comment was professional. Yours was personal. Get over it.

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Fluffy Paul
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 19:07 Edited at: 20th Apr 2003 19:10
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Yeah, just coz the Israeli government isn't very nice doesn't mean all Israelis are terrorist ass-masters. Bloody hell, our goverment just helped America get away with disobeying the UNITED frickin' NATIONS, start a war that was most likely illegal under international law and annoying just about every other country in the world. Does that make us all economic imperialist buttmonkeys who thirst nothing but other people's oil? No, it doesn't - we just pay them our taxes and then they ignore us when we want them to spend it on schools intead of wars.

The "level" of language means how abstract the commands are from what goes on inside the computer in order to carry them out.
C is low level because many of the commands only require the machine to do two or three things in order to carry them out.
DBPro is high level because you can enter one command that would have the same effect as many many commands in other languages. Have you asked a C++ programmer to make a spinning cube in less than 5 lines? They would either laugh at you or say it's impossible.
The "level" doesn't mean how good a language is. A language is "good" if it is appropriate to what you want to do. I wouldn't want to make a web browser in DB, although it's perfectly possible (probably).

This one-upmanship is just immature. One of my tutors in university told me that there was another person who was using Dark Basic for their project, too. I eventually found him and it turned out he was using Blitz Basic. You guys might think that some sort of cat fight ensued... and you'd be wrong. We had both heard of each others development platforms and we just talked about the cool bits and the annoying bits that we had both found so far. I think Blitz is cool because you can set the engine to software rendering mode so even a laptop can run your program (or a machine with a voodoo 2 like my old one that couldn't run DBPro).
However, I do prefer DBPro because it seems to have more powerful features and I prefer the community.

Let's just keep it civil, reasonable and balanced here and we'll all get on OK.

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé
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solo
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 19:35
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heartbone,
The last time I looked in DB Manual, Israel or any other country
were not related to any "professional" conversation, so don't be so smart.

Your first comment ended with the words: "Give me a break...", cancels any others opinions including mine, so i let myself cancel your opinion as well.

If you suffer from any disease, such as parasites, maybe this forum is not for you. look for a good health forum.

[solo]

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solo
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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 19:44
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Fluffy Paul said:
"A language is "good" if it is appropriate to what you want to do"

I agree.

[solo]

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Posted: 20th Apr 2003 20:01
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Guys this thread seems to have gone way off topic here, I think you guys need to address some underlying issues within yourselves and stop posting trolls.
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heartbone
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 05:48 Edited at: 21st Apr 2003 05:49
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solo I ask you one last time, what racist remark?

Crying racism. Shame on you. So typical of you people.

The next time that you type disparaging remarks about someone who was simply voicing an opinion about a computer language you better check yourself.
I'll quote you again
A little respect to a language that is beyond your skills - would'nt harm you...

You welfare recipient, you have no idea what is beyond my skills.

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The more you know, the more you see.
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solo
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 12:00
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heartbone, It was realy fun to know you.
stop right here!
If you have anything constructive to say about the origin thread then say it. If you have something personal to say, you can email me or open a new thread in the non-related-darkbasic forum.

your love,
solo.

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Shadow Robert
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Solo, DBP could impliment anything that C does ... i don't see how the points are relivant.

DBP and C both have highlevel access C with APi's and DBpro with you're User DLL's ... but they also have the low level access with data types, direct memory access, pointer systems.

For alot of DarkBasic Pro's builtin functions then sure they are high level - if you use "Load Object" or "Point" then you're using its highlevel funcitons, but this is just like using an APi function within C, because they're stored within Lib/DLLs and compiled when you compile the program. You're performing the function through an APi macro, just as DBP does.

Only difference is the overhead change because Pro is trying to make it easier for you to achieve these things ... but you don't have to use these Highlevel functions - you could use the core language operators which will work no differently and the speed difference will be minimal compared to a native C++ w/DirectX program.

the only thing that truely limits DarkBasic Professional right now is the fact that it is tied down to having to use DirectX rather than using its calls if you want to and if you don't being able to just release it and use the standard operators.

as C is over 20years old and DBP isn't even 1 yet, somehow there really can't be a comparison - especially with the focus being on bugs because C certainly never shipped in the stable and level of depth that you use it in today. You think AT&T just popped it out and said "Hey look we've made the perfect language" ... if that was true the Pascal and Fortran would never have been used, or still used. Everything has bugs when released because unlike the machines we work on, people aren't perfect at calculating or remembering everything they've done.

the way i see it the comparison of C and DBP should never have come up, and any of the people who have attacked DarkBasic Pro for being just too basic for thier needs to reprioritise what is actually within this language, because it has alot ... just because it doesn't have all of the builtin functions you want doesn't mean you can't achieve them.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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solo
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Posted: 21st Apr 2003 16:16
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Raven, DB using DLLs written in C/C++ is not realy showing that DB stands at the same level as those languages. it shows that DB lack of functionality that might be achieved using these languages.

I think that almost anything can be implemented using DB, but there are some main issues that are causing workarounds that influence the development maintenance(like types encapsulation: arrays within a type,passing types and arrays as parameters, and so).

The support for the low level pointers is far from being completed.
The lack of pointers operators and casting, the lack of pointers of functions, make generic programming as generic QSORT impossible.

C's function QSORT, lets you sort any type of array.you have to implement a comparison function that compares two elements within the array, and to define rules to declare which of those two elemnts is 'bigger'/'smaller'. QSORT use functions pointers as parameters to use your comparison function for sorting the whole array.
you can't use that technique with DB for generic programming.
Not to mention pre-processor usage,standart libraries and portability. Old C still has some things to offer...

DBP is a terrific language. games are terrific. I wish us all to have fun using it. Cheers for the DB team.

[solo]

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Shadow Robert
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 21st Apr 2003 20:07
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but it is more than possible to develop your own types and arrays within DBpro ... and the pointer system could be easily extended to allow casting so that you could setup a QSORT, that is if you don't want to actually develop your own version of sorting which would be better.

Pre-Processing within the language can be achieved with adding one to the IDE, Hubdule has already started development on Standardised Libraries - the only thing that it can't offer is the portability.

unfortunatly the compiler doesn't allow for compiler inline commands, suchas machine specific compiling and you can't compile source code libraries... but as i've said C never appeared on the market in it's AS IS state that you use today.

and infact almost ALL of the functions you could say about C don't matter because they are NOT part of the original language, they're all extention functions created in C to extend its useability and decrease development time.
just like DirectX has done for games development.

just because right now the compiler is dependant to using a DirectX instance, shouldn't impact the fact of its versitility or place as a language on its own.
As DarkBasic Professional primary goal is to make games development easier and simpler that is what it is being aimed at right now - however i don't see why once the majority of games development needs are met why they can't move onto freeing the language to actually be selfsufficient or be able to extend itself in the same way that PureBasic can.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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