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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / [STICKY] Learning to write Shaders

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_Pauli_
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Posted: 12th Oct 2009 23:17
Quote: " Looks like another learning experience coming up"


Yes, looking forward to re-activate my brain cells

Maybe this command is useful:



I think about passing this as projection matrix to the shader.
But still have to think about the whole thing a little more.
I'm going to search for a tutorial on directional shadow mapping now...

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Oct 2009 00:42
Quote: "I'm going to search for a tutorial on directional shadow mapping now..."


Me too.

Quote: "Maybe this command is useful:"


Seems plausible judging by its arguments in DBPro. The 3D maths commands are an often overlooked (by me at least) and seriously poorly documented set of commands.

Definitely worth trying. I suggest testing it with a simple scene and shader first just to check the basic idea.

I'm busy tweaking my shadow mapping shader to get soft edges and a penumbra - but so far the standard "jitter" technique seems to be as good as any. I'll be posting a new version in the next few days.
Plystire
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Posted: 19th Oct 2009 03:02
Why does this:


..always return true? The value "ticks" is defined as:



Am I missing something here?


The one and only,


Green Gandalf
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Posted: 19th Oct 2009 12:23
Quote: "Why does this:
+ Code Snippet
if (ticks/100000.0f == round(ticks/100000.0f)) {

..always return true? "


On my machine it always returns false - as I would expect (except for fleeting moments that you won't notice). It might return true initially - but after that you'd have to wait a long time (about 3 days !!) before it would return true again, and then only for an instant. In any case it is always unwise to test for exact equality between two floats. For example, the following shader always (except possibly for the rare brief moment when I'm not looking ) returns green in Dark Shader:



If you want something to flash between two different colours, you can try something like this:

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2009 21:29 Edited at: 24th Oct 2009 13:33
Finally got around to tidying up my shadow mapping demo.

It includes shadowing for alpha mapped objects - I've used trees created in TreeMagik to demonstrate the effect.

The demo contains two main techniques: one without shadow filtering (this gives hard, aliased, shadow edges) ("scene0"), the other uses a 4x4 bilinear filter to soften the shadow edges.

The demo has been corrected for use with a single directional light.

You'll need a PS2.x capable GFX card (PS2a or PS2b - I've used PS2a where necessary in the demo) to see the filtering.

Some performance comparisons:



Here's a screenshot:

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2009 21:30
Screenshot for previous post.

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Alfa x
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2009 21:52
Very very nice.
Congrats. . Have to study in very much detail.

Thanks.



PS: Your water shader is going to be halted?
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2009 22:57 Edited at: 23rd Oct 2009 22:58
Quote: "The demo has been corrected for use with a single directional light."


Oh dear. I can't get anything right today. I meant to say positional light - and I've made the same silly mistake in the comments in the code. I think ( ) the code itself is correct for a positional light though.

Quote: "PS: Your water shader is going to be halted?"


Nope. Just been distracted, that's all. Perhaps I'd better return to that next...

Edit: corrected typo [see what I mean?]
david w
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 08:08
excellent shadow progress. Works perfect with my DirectX game test.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 24th Oct 2009 13:22 Edited at: 24th Oct 2009 13:35
Thanks.

I've spotted a silly coding error. I intended to use a floating point image format (R32F) for the shadow map but made a silly error which probably meant that the default format was used. The following line:



should be:



I think the main effect of the error was that the shadow map was inadvertently more informative ( ) than it should have been when pasted to the screen (R32F images don't display correctly in DBPro - but are handled correctly by the GFX card). If the change doesn't work for your machines then use the following:



I haven't attempted to optimize the shader code yet. There are at least two options worth exploring:

1. Do the shadow filtering in two passes.

2. See if Math89's suggestion for packing constants into a single float4 helps.

Edit Replaced the original zip file with a corrected copy which now also informs the user to press t to switch shadow filtering.
_Pauli_
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Posted: 25th Oct 2009 13:54
Awesome work Green Gandalf!

Quote: "the code itself is correct for a positional light"


I almost fell off my chair when I read it was for a directional light... damn, seems to be quite hard to do. I couldn't even find any proper tutorials on it. Hope we can work something out one day...

Now the plot thickens, the fps decreases, and the awesomeness goes through the roof.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 26th Oct 2009 13:20
Quote: "I almost fell off my chair when I read it was for a directional light"


Yes, that was a rather silly "typo".

Quote: "damn, seems to be quite hard to do. I couldn't even find any proper tutorials on it. Hope we can work something out one day..."


The strange thing is that the basic idea seems very straightforward. Might give it a go sometime ...

What difficulty did you encounter when you tried to do that?
Xgame101
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Posted: 27th Oct 2009 14:56 Edited at: 27th Oct 2009 15:00
Awesome work GG! I tossed the light camera code into the loop with an incremental addition to the position and Presto! I have a 'Sun' effect that I can move accross the sky Now if I can just get a water shader and a bloom shader of some sort working nicely with this and my terrains, I'll be a happy camper

edit: I was just thinking, since a directional light would be limited to a specific radius of effect and a set range couldn't this be achieved simply by masking the shadowmap produced here somehow? (If I'm way off base, ignore me I'm still learning all the tricks of the camera and the math )

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prasoc
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Posted: 28th Oct 2009 17:03
Is there a way to have a shader which sharpens the image? Would it be edge detection or what?


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thenerd
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 00:18
yup, there's one in darkshader, so it's possible. but my opinion is that is looks horrible, maybe GG has a better one...


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 13:51 Edited at: 29th Oct 2009 13:52
I can't find one in Dark Shader, but here's a quick and dirty one I've just thrown together in Dark Shader. It has two "tweaks" you can adjust.



Here's a before and after screenshot:

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prasoc
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 14:18
Is it a screen or an object shader? (sorry for the noob question lol) but thanks a lot for your time


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 15:38
Object - but it can very easily be modified to be a screen shader as well. Just compare the crucial lines with any standard screen shader such as those which come with DarkShader.
prasoc
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Posted: 29th Oct 2009 17:02
OK. I implemented it in my lightmap/bumpmap and now sharpen shader and it reduces the fps from > 100 to 30 :S Any ideas on how to improve it?


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mr Handy
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 00:42 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2009 00:46
Guys, have anyone sphere mapping shader?

Edit - Me is stupid. Me Found.
Just searched wiki, after reading shadow mapping article.

I hate shaders...
Mobiius
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2009 08:08
Quote: "have anyone sphere mapping shader?"

That one's built into DBPRo.

Set Sphere Mapping On

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 00:30 Edited at: 12th Dec 2009 13:36
[Edit2 New demo attached - some bugs fixed. ]

It's been a bit quiet on this thread recently, so here's a new shader demo for everyone to play with.

Sasuke has posted several threads recently about particle systems in DBPro, so I decided it was time to sweep the dust off a demo I started some time back.

The demo shows how you can achieve a simple particle effect by using a specially constructed DBPro object and shader. The demo first creates such an object and saves it as a standard X file, and then applies a shader to it.

Preliminary tests suggest it may be up to 10 times faster than DBPro particle objects (but I'm not convinced I'm doing a fair comparison).

The object consists of a set of random "billboards", i.e. degenerate quads, whose vertices are separated in the vertex shader using the object's UV data. This particular demo uses 2000 such billboards.

The transparency/zwrite/zdepth issue needs sorting out properly - so comments welcome.

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Randomness 128
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 04:46
Quote: "Quote: "Also I have a shader sematic question. I notice you do this alot -- float4x4 wvp : WorldViewProjection; -- Why put WorldViewProjection in?"

Yes it is needed - otherwise you would have to manually calculate it yourself in DBPro and explicitly pass it as a matrix to the shader."
How would one go about doing this?
Sasuke
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 19:05
GG, cool beans, I'll check it out when I'm back at my computer.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 9th Dec 2009 19:41
If it's of interest I can add some bells and whistles to it.
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 05:22
I'm having a bit of trouble here. I need a shader to use two different worldviewprojection matrices. I tried passing one to a shader like this:

but all of the objects appear at (0,0,0).

Here's a simple program and shader that I was using to test this:

code:


shader:


Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

All anti aliasing and no anisotropic filtering makes Jack a dull texture.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 12:23
Quote: "I need a shader to use two different worldviewprojection matrices."


Why can't you use the ones automatically passed by DBPro?

The world matrix should be computed per object and takes account of things like the object's world position, scaling and rotation. The view matrix is computed per camera (use set current camera to get access to the right view matrix). The projection matrix should be a fixed matrix (I think - not quite sure off-hand whether it takes account of things like camera fov).

I'll try to find time to have a quick look at your code some time today. But the problem is probably that the DBPro world matrix is fixed and places everything at (0, 0, 0). In fact I can't see the point of that matrix in DBPro since there's no way (as far as I know) of computing it per object by simple DBPro commands - you'd need to manually calculate the rotation matrices etc and calculate the objects' individual rotation matrices etc from those. It can be done though.
Math89
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 15:17
Quote: "The projection matrix should be a fixed matrix (I think - not quite sure off-hand whether it takes account of things like camera fov)."

The projection matrix uses the near and far planes, the fov and the aspect ratio.

Quote: "you'd need to manually calculate the rotation matrices etc and calculate the objects' individual rotation matrices etc from those."

I think IanM's plugin allows to set or retrieve the world matrix for any given object.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Dec 2009 16:09
Quote: "The projection matrix uses the near and far planes, the fov and the aspect ratio."


Makes sense. Thanks.

Quote: "I think IanM's plugin allows to set or retrieve the world matrix for any given object."


I missed that one, thanks again. I guess you mean this:

Quote: "OBJECT MATRIX4

Syntax

OBJECT LIMB MATRXI4 Matrix4Result, ObjectId

Description

This command will take the translation/rotation matrix of the object specified and place it within the specified matrix.
"


Looks like IanM has been taking lessons from the DBPro Help files.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 11th Dec 2009 00:17
Just tracked down a bug in my particle shader.

I'll sort it out and post a new demo over the weekend. In the meantime I'll add a health warning to the original post.
Lemonade
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Posted: 11th Dec 2009 08:48 Edited at: 11th Dec 2009 08:49
Hey, Green Gandalf, that shadow shader looks amazing! (even if it is a bit slow)

Any chance of making it compatible with that bump\spec shader you made for me? DBP shadows don't quite cut it.

I uploaded the bump shader. (just in case...)

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Posted: 12th Dec 2009 06:18 Edited at: 12th Dec 2009 08:15
Quote: "Why can't you use the ones automatically passed by DBPro?"
What I wanted to do was make a motion blur shader that would use the current WorldViewProjection matrix as well as the WorldViewProjection matrix from the previous frame and compare them.

Quote: "I think IanM's plugin allows to set or retrieve the world matrix for any given object."
I searched for some information on world matrices, and it seems that you need to create the matrix for one object, render that object, then move on to the next object. I'm guessing dbpro must do this for you automatically, and that there's no practical way to get a second world matrix into the shader.


I went ahead with the motion blur shader, but only using the view and projection matrix from the previous frame. It won't react to objects moving independently of the camera, but it's still nice to have.

screenshot 1
screenshot 2
screenshot 3

Video

All anti aliasing and no anisotropic filtering makes Jack a dull texture.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Dec 2009 11:06
Quote: "and that there's no practical way to get a second world matrix into the shader."


Yes, that will be awkward unless you use a separate shader or separate shader copy for each object. Messy - but possible.

But your screenshots look good anyway.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Dec 2009 13:31
Updated my particle shader a few posts back. When uncapped the demo runs at about 2300 FPS () on my main machine and 15 on my laptop ().

You can replace the DDS image with your own for different fountain like effects and a few other things can be tweaked.

The new demo sets up the vertex normals as a source of random data in the range 0 to 1, the numbers are the same within each "billboard". These random numbers can be used in the shader as the basis for different effects if you wish to edit the shader yourself. The present version just uses the "x" component of the "normals", so there are two spare at the moment.

I'll be adding new techniques to the shader to give different particle effects, perhaps starting with snow, rain and fog.

I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on the zdepth/transparency issues with the shader.
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Posted: 12th Dec 2009 17:08
Quote: "Yes, that will be awkward unless you use a separate shader or separate shader copy for each object. Messy - but possible."
I was so focused on one track, I hadn't considered this... Thanks For every object, using that many different shaders would be quite messy, but if only used for certain objects it should work quite well

All anti aliasing and no anisotropic filtering makes Jack a dull texture.
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Dec 2009 18:00
Good point.
mr Handy
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Posted: 17th Dec 2009 20:18
I want to make motion blur too, but only i've done is lerping current and previous images... it's look very poor... can you give me advice how to make shader like on previous screens? you said smth about matrices, but i dont understand it.

I hate shaders...
mr Handy
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Posted: 18th Dec 2009 22:07 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2009 11:52
I've attached my results (.zip file) - maybe it looks ok on screens but bad in action. Randomness 128 did inscredible MB. I want to make such by myself, but I have no idea how. Also i can attach my current fx.

P.S. on screenshot (1) there is spinning white ball in center of image, but it is too blurred in motion - my MB looks bad, but can do object blurring - heh, big deal

Please guys teach me how to do this fx!

I hate shaders...

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mr Handy
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2009 11:55 Edited at: 25th Dec 2009 06:32
Well, nobody?

I hate shaders...
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Posted: 25th Dec 2009 05:22 Edited at: 25th Dec 2009 05:24
The view matrix describes the position and angle of the camera. The projection matrix describes other information such as the aspect ratio and field of view.

You need to store the view matrix and projection matrix, and send them to the shader in the next frame. The shader compares those matrices to the current frame's matrices to figure out how far everything has moved since the previous frame. This creates an image called a velocity map, which uses colours to indicate the velocity of each pixel.

After that, another shader blurs the image on screen based on this velocity map.

Here is the shader that generates the velocity map. I also included some techniques for lighting that are based off of evolved shaders.


This shader will blur the image. Use this shader on a plane that has the main camera's image on texture stage 0 and the velocity map on texture stage 1. Make sure the velocity map's camera uses a surface format that uses floats so the texture can contain values below 0.


The velocity map shader can be modified a bit to do object blur, but you'd probably need a separate shader for each object, since each object has a separate world matrix. Unless someone can think of a better way to get dbpro to send another set of world matrices into shaders.

All anti aliasing and no anisotropic filtering makes Jack a dull texture.
mr Handy
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Posted: 25th Dec 2009 06:36 Edited at: 25th Dec 2009 06:37
@Randomness 128
Did not expect the answer - so much time has passed! Thank you!
I will study your codes line by line, maybe I'll catch some ideas how to make object blur. 10x again!

I hate shaders...
Sasuke
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Posted: 4th Jan 2010 19:46
GG,
Quote: "I'd appreciate some feedback/suggestions on the zdepth/transparency issues with the shader."


Will do soon, finally had access to a computer to finally download your demo. I've been stuck with just itouch and a PSP for months.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 4th Jan 2010 22:02
Thanks, I look forward to it. No rush though as I'm taking a short break from serious thinking.
Weave
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Posted: 5th Jan 2010 16:43
Anyone know why the darkshader bloom.fx doesnt respond to the set effect constant float command, i get the bloom effect but cannot change the settings of the two variables bloomscale and bloompower that it does in darkshader?

Anyone know of a way to get Antialias in bloom, considering a screen is captured and then pasted onto a camera quad that is then the image your game sees. Antialias is the last pass that the graphics card does...so can I not add a second such pass and so include the Antialised image to then be affected by the bloom shader?...Bethesda can....can darkbasic pro ?
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 5th Jan 2010 19:53
Quote: "Anyone know why the darkshader bloom.fx doesnt respond to the set effect constant float command"


It does for me.

Did you use it as an object effect (set object effect) or a camera effect (set camera effect)? You can do it either way - but if you used a camera effect then you need set camera effect constant float, etc.
Weave
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 05:20
I have implimented it both ways with the appropriate changes you mentioned above



I get the bloom effect, but the two variables dont alter the effect....although the variables themselves seem to alter fine?
Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 13:04
Quote: "I get the bloom effect"


Do you? I would expect you to get the scene before bloom is added.

I'm surprised if you do get the bloom effect because your code has replaced the bloom effect with the screen quad effect:



This means that your variables have no effect on the final rendered scene because the quad.fx effect doesn't use the bloom variables.

Have a look at the example code in the Dark Shader Help file , i.e. Help/Contents/Exporting/Using Full-screen shaders in DarkBasic. The main omission in that Help file entry is that you need to add reload display pointer after any set display mode command.
Weave
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Posted: 6th Jan 2010 19:28
Hm...so I read the help file and added the as yet uncommented reload display pointer command, then made sure the quad was the only effect applied to object 200 as mentioned by GG, made it all a camera effect with set camera effect 3,5,200 and bingo, it`s just the same!

*Included screen

Also in that help file a float is declared thus:-

float suchandsuch

but should be:-

suchandsuch as float

So as it stands at the top:-


Then in the loop:-



Then to sync:-

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 01:10
Not sure what the problem is offhand.

Are you sure the scene is filled with object 200, i.e. in the final render you are actually looking at object 200? An easy way to check is to hide all the other objects (which should be obscured by object 200 anyway - but if they are not ...).
Weave
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Posted: 7th Jan 2010 01:34
Affirmative, I have this after the last sync mask which hides my quad to compare the scene with and without the effect:-



I will reexport bloom.fx to see if it lies in the shader.

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