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Game Design Theory / [LOCKED] Super Smash Bros.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 20:45
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Well, a planet is a sphere, and an asteroid could be pasted onto plains to save polygons - otherwise we could use plains for the background asteroids and have some in FRONT of the battle too.

Lets just first get the level working, and add scenery later, okay? I'd love to test it


Little Bright Dots
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Dared1111
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Posted: 8th Sep 2007 22:51
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I'd personally love to see team matches and maybe like destructa core where you have to kill the other teams core

or maybe turrets which can be conquered or used

prehaps asteroid jousting

some sudden death or cloning characters

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LBFN
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 02:25 Edited at: 9th Sep 2007 02:26
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Dared1111

Thanks for the ideas. What you are talking about is a departure from SSBM. Is that what you want to do? Are you talking about doing these things on this level alone, or something similar for all levels? I'm trying to visualize asteroid jousting. Also, could you expand on sudden death and the cloning of characters?

LB


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=1247451
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KYP
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 02:53
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I don't know about the cloning, but in SSB, the winner is decided using this point method:

If you die, you lose a point.
If you are the last person to damage someone before they die, you gain a point.

Whoever has the most points at the end wins. If two people have the same amount of points, then they go to a "sudden death", where they are the only ones playing (everyone else just watches), and both of them start with 300%. If they go for a while without killing each other, bombs start to fall. Whoever lasts the longest wins. (if 3 or 4 people tie, it works the same)

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Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 02:54
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@LFBN Hope fully i aren't to late to make a character but I made a burger character ages ago and this is what it looks like..(see attachment)

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LBFN
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 03:31
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Hi Deathead

No, you're not too late at all to contribute a character. I like the character, but he ought to have eyeballs (would it be a problem to add eyes if requested?) It is much more detailed than our current Cheeseburger character. Is it animated? Textures available for it? Are the arms limbs that a weapon could easily be attached to? Is it available in .x format? Just curious, has it ever been used in a game?

So, tell me, what do you consider your involvement with the TGC Heroes game development team? Do you want to be an occasional contributor, (i.e. what is considered an inactive member) or are do you want to commit to being a core team member? I remember that you had an idea for a fast food restaurant designed around Cheeseburger at one time.

We are assembling a core TGCH team right now and are expected to finalize who will be on it Monday. One of the first things we can decide is if we want to replace the existing Cheesburger character with yours. It would help us to decide if you could answer the questions above.

Thanks for the submission,

LB
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Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 03:40
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LBFN: I need to rig it. Which I'm a noob at so if someone could do that for me would be great. And for the eye balls sure I can do that but I was goin for a more costume attempt. Holes for the person to see through. Texture needs to be done. And yes the .x is available. And may I see the other Burger model.

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LBFN
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 04:30
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Deathead

Attached is the .x file for Cheeseburger. There are no arms or legs on it, only eyeballs. There's not that much too it. I wasn't around when it was originally contributed, so I don't know what textures go with it.

The modelers/animators are busy trying to resolve exporting issues, so I don't see us getting to rigging yours anytime soon, assuming it is brought into the game. We shall see how it goes.

LB
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Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 12:55
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@LBFN I have it rigged but there is a couple of deformity errors. Here it is See attachment

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LBFN
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 14:15
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Deathead

It is hard to see any deformities in the model in the game, as it is untextured. The arms and legs look okay as it spins from what I can tell. Also, the model 'falls halfway through' the platforms in the game. kyp had the same problem with one of his models, but he did something to fix it. You might ask him about it.

I have attached a pic to show you what it looks like in-game.

LB

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=1247451
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Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 14:57
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I haven't textured it yet I was goin to post that later. But there is no animations. I just need someone to animated it for me.

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LBFN
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 15:41
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Deathead

Most all of our models need rigging/animation. This is an area that we have work to do already.

LB
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KYP
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:32
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Deathead:

To fix Nutt's "falling", I just moved him so the lowest part of him was touching the x-axis. (I assume that right now his legs are below the x-axis)

To the whole team:

What team? So far I've only gotton two emails, from tha_Rami and Beast E. I'm sure there's more team members than that!

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Deathead
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Posted: 9th Sep 2007 19:40
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Done thanks working on the texture now.

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Shadow heart
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 02:12
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I sent an email out saying i wion't be able to help for a week but i can get back now. i'm really sorry for my absense, i've just been so tired, all i would want to wuz sleeep lollolz. i feel better now, my whole family was sick. so what we got?

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LBFN
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 04:27
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Hi Shadow

I'm sorry to hear that you and your family have had to endure some health problems, but I am glad you are doing better.

We are currently establishing a 'core' team that can make game decisions relatively quickly. The following quote sums up our situation pretty good:

Quote: "
TGCH Team appeal:

[ *** To all TGCH team members: *** ]
I think everyone needs to make a decision here as to whether or not they are on this team. If you are, then contribute and participate and let kyp know what you are doing and what you can do. If you are unwilling to do that, then why are you even on this team? We do not need benchwarmers here, we need players. Team members can indicate their willingness to continue by simply emailing kyp. Anyone that has actually contributed to this point will be mentioned in the final credits. On Monday the 10th kyp can post a list of active members. If someone wants to be put on the inactive list because of current issues they have, that's fine.

Some key team members have not responded yet. I am trying to establish a 'core' team here, to where game decisions can be more quickly made, answers to questions can be obtained fairly quickly and contributions can be expected on a regular basis. Anyone that is a current team member that does not respond by Sunday (tomorrow) will be moved to an 'inactive' list.

The inactive members will be viewed as follows:
- No response will be expected.
- They will not be sent requests for answers to questions or for contributions.
- What they are working on will not be tracked. More emphasis will be placed on a core member's submission than an inactive member's submission when conflicts exist.
- Their input for game decisions will not be considered (how can someone have good input if they are out of the loop [no pun intended] ?)
- Contributions on an inactive basis are fine and we will continue to try to use all team member contributions in the game whenever possible.

Moving forward, our 'core team' will make game decisions. On important decisions that need a quick answer, core team members will be emailed with a deadline to respond by. Every core team member's vote will carry the same weight and we will decide together what we will do.

An inactive team member can become a part of the core team by committing to timely responses and actively participating in this project.

For those key members that have not responded, please consider what you would like to do here. We have made great progress together so far.

Also, all core team members are expected to email kinda young programmer with what they are currently working on and what their skill set is.
"


TGCH Team members that have not done so:
Please indicate if you want to be a core member or an inactive member by emailing kinda young programmer and letting him know before tomorrow morning. You should also mention your skill set to him. He will assemble the core team list tomorrow and we will move forward directly with that team. The inactive members can still contribute, they just won't be involved in the day-to-day decisions.

LB
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Dared1111
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Posted: 10th Sep 2007 22:35
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My email dont work so posting here right now is the best thing i can do.

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LBFN
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 02:42
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Dared1111

Are you saying that you want to be a core team member, but that you have email issues right now? If so, do you expect the email problem to be resolved soon? Unfortunately, core team members need to have email available.

LB
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KYP
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 02:49
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You could use gmail, out of the several e-mail services I've used, it's my favorite.

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KYP
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 03:27 Edited at: 11th Sep 2007 03:36
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TGC Heroes progress report

(In the future, this will just be e-mailed to the core team members)

Headline
Where's all the team members? If you post media here every so often, and you do a normal post every day or two, there's no reason you shouldn't be a core team member! Besides, you'll miss the pure awesomeness of my typing if you're not. (Also, LBFN is sending out a more complete update to the core team members.

Current projects of core team members:

LBFN:
Fixing the AI, and has just changed the shield time to make it more realistic. He would appreciate it if there was another level for V .35, but all the modelers are having exporter issues. Hopefully they will be fixed soon.

tha_Rami:
Working on a Starwraith level. It's looking awesome!



KYP:
Trying to solve exporter problems. Me and LB think we might have figured out a way to fix the lack of textures in the swamp, we’re looking into it.
Also, believe it or not, I’m still working on the introductory animation for TGC Heroes! I have two more finished models.

Cheeseburger:



Tikatta (I made some modifications to an existing model):



Super Nova:
Finished an awesome revised Drew model, but for some reason the file size is humungous, so he’s trying to figure out why it’s so big.



That’s about all I have to say, if I suddenly remember something later I’ll edit this post, or post a new one.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 03:31
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LFBN should have the models and stuff. If he has problems, he can contact me . If you guys need anything else, just tell me .


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LBFN
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 04:45
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Hi everyone,

I have some good news: I checked for updates on my video card and there was an update available. After installing it I tried attaching a limb to Tikatta and it worked!! I made 'fire' (really just a small sphere painted red) come out of his mouth. The point is that we do not have to re-model Tikatta. Any suggestions on the best way to animate the fire? Doomasaur should have fire-breathing capability too (maybe we'll make his blue or something).

Some bad news: The video card update did not extend to the Starwraith world. The carrier and fighters do not texture correctly. Rami, can you help?

kyp

Thanks for putting out the info! What a cool Cheeseburger model! I think it would be even better if he had some arms and hands holding the squirt bottles. Do you have the .x file and textures? Animations? We should use him as a replacement for our existing Cheesburger model.

Since a Tikatta replacement is no longer needed, can you make your model different enough that we could include it in the game? It's too cool of a model not to use it. I see a slash attack coming from this one.

Is it possible for you to take a look at Doomasaur to see if he can be easily animated? To my knowledge, he has no animations at all currently. I believe you have the .x file and uvmap texture.

LB
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Data
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 04:59
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Hey guys,

some more good news, I recently purchased Convseo and it seems that the maps that I have already made seem to work with it. Perhaps we could find a way to utilize this new resource. So any thoughts on that please let me know.

Otherwise, I'll continue with some more maps. I have one almost reayd to go. I'll post it soon!


Data

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Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 05:04
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Dudes models are awesome! For cheeseburger new model cool if he had a pickel or a piece of tomato on top of cheese and bring the mustard, ketchup closer to his body and he is looking good.. also to view ur guy's 3d models what do u usually use? I use gamespace lite and i have 3 models i have and textured for my own game but with gamespace i can't figure out to show the model textured any help?

Winner my a longshot!
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LBFN
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 05:37 Edited at: 11th Sep 2007 06:10
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Data

I thought you were working on revising the Baker Street model so that the players can get to all of the places and compartments that they need to get to? I have heard about ConvSEO but don't know much about it.

tha_rami

I got the cruiser texture to where it is a lot better. Please take a look at the attached pic and let me know if this is okay. The fighters are a different story, though. I tried to import them into 3D Canvas and one single rectangle showed up. I tried importing it into Blender and that errored too. Can you export the fighter in a different format (.obj maybe?)

Beast E.

I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying you can't get the textures to apply to the model, or that you can't get a picture of the textured models, or is it something else? If it's a question about GameSpace itself, I can't help, as I do not have it.

LB

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=1247451
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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 05:49
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Lol, I must admit it looks funny, but prolly that has to do with a green dinosaur and a nut standing on it with a happy blue background. Seriously, looks very good.

I'll drop Vice a mail asking him if he still has the old file.


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LBFN
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 06:07
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tha_rami

lol. . . Oh sure, my fingers are bleeding and have blisters from working all day and night for three days straight reworking the texture on a model that won't import right; I work and I slave without food, water or sleep and what does Rami notice? The blue sky! [I am joking btw]

Gotta admit, it is kinda funny now that I look at it... Makes me think maybe we should have a 'meaner' looking sky for Battlezone One Billion.

LB
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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 06:14 Edited at: 11th Sep 2007 06:14
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@LFBN: Don't give me that crap now, its 5:13AM . Just kidding. Although it is is 5:13AM. Should sleep. Talk tomorrow. Two word. Sentences look. Kinda cool.

Mail sent to Vice . I could make a mean background?


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LBFN
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 06:33
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tha_rami

Wow, it's only 10:25 here now. BzOB had kind of a darker brown background originally in the icon pic, but a darker brown texture was never received. I don't know how it would look. There is a red light showing under the arena that I could put in too.

Actually, it already is my tomorrow for you! Get sleep.

LB
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Zombie 20
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Looking damn sexy guys, damn sexy..cheeseburger is my new fav model and would be my choice for fighting.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 11th Sep 2007 12:19
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LFBN. Check mail. 3 new FIGHT1.X objects.


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Beast E Gargoyle
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LBFN- my problem with gamespace and my .x models was it would load the image but before it would load, it would say file axel.bmp was not found but its a .x so i dont know whats up with either the model or gamespace. I do know the model was created using 3ds. I just wondered why it ask for .bmp, i say no and it loads the model untextured in the gray form of it.

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Data
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Quote: "I thought you were working on revising the Baker Street model so that the players can get to all of the places and compartments that they need to get to? I have heard about ConvSEO but don't know much about it. "


omg I totally forgot about that. I had finished it before and forgot to upload the file. Hang on let me try to find it!

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Shadow heart
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 01:49
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great everything is looking good. but my auduacity is acting crappy it's recording low audio quality but i can still find some old osund effects. anwyay what about the design doc. i have version 2. but is it ready to be updated.?

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LBFN
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 03:18 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 03:21
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Shadow
Sound effects and music are usually put in almost last when I code. I play test the games I make a lot and it gets monotonous listening to them so often, plus they add to the load time. Still, it would be a good idea to begin collecting sound and music data so that when we are ready, we can simply plug them in and go. Anything we use should have written permission so that we do not have issues.

As to the design.doc, my thought is that those are done initially to show what you intend to do and who will be doing what, etc. While we do have a basic plan for the game, we are designing the specifics on the fly, so to speak. (i.e. we know we want battle arenas, characters, special attacks and the like, but the specific characters/worlds/attacks are being brought in a little at a time). This is part of the reason a core team was established, so that decisions on how to move forward could be made fairly quickly.

If the core team agrees, we could do a game status/progress document to include all submissions (that are being used in the game) and who submitted them. For the record, if we do this, I feel that only submissions that are actually being used in the game (or there is a reasonable expectation that they will be used) should be listed as contributions. Is this something that you would be interested in helping out with if we decide upon it?

tha_rami

No luck so far with the textures on the fighters. The problem is that they do not import into 3D Canvas or Blender correctly. The one fighter than I can import does not texture correctly. Trying to texture them in the game after the model is loaded doesn't work either. I will keep trying to figure something out.

How about using 'Starwraith Showdown' as a name for your level?

kyp

How are you doing on the Swamp?

LB

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KYP
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 03:24 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 03:27
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I tried importing Doomasaur into Blender and got another "Python Script error". I'll try with 3DC and see if that works better.

Cheeseburger and Tikatta are both .mdl files. I looked on the DBP homepage, and it claims that DBP can import .mdl's, so you might try importing it directly into DBP. Since Cheeseburger has bump-mapping, we might want to try a simpler model first to see if DBP can handle the file format in the first place. This is the epitome of simpleness: a sphere.

Edit:
Ha ha, your post appeared while I was typing!
Zombie sent me a media list, so I'd just have to edit out the models that aren't being used.
I haven't been working on the swamp as of late, I'll try to figure out how to texture it.

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tha_rami
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@LFBN: The stuff about the models is quite annoying, isn't it. I agree with the level name, would be good, I guess .

I've no objections to sending out the models further as long as you feel the receiver is trustworthy and will not use the (copyrighted) models in any illegal way. Vice has putten his trust in us with the models, and seeing what a nice guy is... well, you get the point .

I like the current cheeseburger model and see no reason to change it just to have another inactive member. I'll hunt around for some riggers/animators - they are indeed, as you say, what will make this game shine.

Yes, I do care that the characters come from a TGC game. This is TGC Heroes, and I feel everything should be either TGC-related or at least explainable in the setting. Battlezone One Million is a standard battleground, and the others I understand, but actually we should be getting TGC out to have as many games represented in the game as possible. This could provide us with attention and through that, possibly assistance. Projects that spring to mind as levels are Dream, Soulhunter, PoPR, Geisha House, Seadome, EvoChron, Pipe Fall Racers, Vaelore and Virtual Office. Ofcourse, a pure DarkBASIC level would be fun too. I guess levels are the easiest part (ironic that the Starwraith level is such a problem)... Characters could stem from any game with declared characters - Dream, Soulhunter, Kez: Legacy of the Flame, Nutt ect. The best part is that these characters might already be rigged and the creator of the games might like the extra attention to the game. Plus, how fun is it to have your game hero go frontal with another game hero, get extra attention ánd credits?

I'll try and hunt down Sixty Squares about the model. I ain't a animator, but I could create an animation list (at least, I could say what moves should be available).

Pictures of the woosh-effect would be cool, in SSB it's white and I feel that makes more sense as in space it is little normal to have fire (and in Vaelore/Dream settings too).

Congratulations on setting up a core team. Let's get moving again. The story begins...


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LBFN
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 03:56
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kyp

The documentation does say that .mdl files can be loaded. However, like .3ds files, not all of them can be loaded apparently. The game simply stops and says 'abnormal termination error' when I try to use the model. I verified that it was indeed because of the model. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news again. I didn't see a copy of the bump map with the model. Can you email it to me?

Be sure to check the list to make sure of what was actually submitted. There are several model pics that were submitted, but the model never was posted, let alone used. Maybe the core team would not agree, but I think only the submissions that get used (or will be used) should be listed. Could you email the others to see what their preference is and let me know?

LB

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KYP
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:15 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 04:15
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Sorry to be the causer of bad news again.
This model, a sphere, doesn't have a bumpmap. It was just for testing to see if DBP could load it. I tried importing into Milkshape, and it didn't give me any errors, but it didn't show up either.

E-mailing now.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:17
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I think that inn ancient Rome they executed the bringers of bad news.

Glad we're not in ancient Rome.


Little Bright Dots
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KYP
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:19 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 04:19
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Me too.

Edit: This looks really random on a new page...

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Beast E Gargoyle
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LBFN- One quick question so u are saying u wont add music to the game till its almost done i posted a whole load of music before u came on just a thought to include in v.35 but if u want to wait till the games almost finished thats up to u.

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LBFN
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:26 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 04:36
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tha_rami

I don't plan on sending out the Starwraith models just yet. The Carrier is fine, we just have to get the fighter fixed and we're good. We'll see how it goes. I take copyrights very seriously.

If the rest of the core team agrees with recruiting/using models only from TGC games, then I can think of someone who would be perfect to speak with others about contributing their models to the effort. . . you. Thanks for offering to talk to Sixty Squares and thank you for volunteering for deciding on the animations. A modeler/animator from the core team is needed to make up our duo for this.

Remaining Core team [kyp, Super Nova, Beast E. Gargoyle]: An answer is needed here. Does it matter to you if we use only TGC characters in our game? Please respond here or via email to kyp by this time tomorrow. If your answer is yes, only use TGC characters, what will we do about the characters that we currently have that are not in a TGC game? To be consistent, a game or games would have to be written that uses them. Other ideas?

On the whoosh fire, I have included a pic, but the effect doesn't really show up as the pillar of fire is surging. I have not made it horizontal yet.

[ ** EDIT ** Beast E. - I play test the game over and over and over again. It really gets old listening to the same things that many times. Plus music files especially take a lot longer to load. I am for the idea of deciding what effects and music we want to put in the game and putting everything together now is fine. I'm not real enthused about actually putting them into the game at this point. If you want something in v 0.35 I can do that, but I will only put it in for the demo. I have not kept the music/sound files myself. Can you forward what you want for v 0.35 to me (please not a lot of stuff)?]

Best,

LB
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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:37
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Of course, if we agree on using TGC content only, I'll be asking around for interested developers to see if they'd be willing to aid us a bit .

If you use the spikes images and make the woosh effect white, how would that look?


Little Bright Dots
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LBFN
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:50 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 04:53
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Quote: "If you use the spikes images and make the woosh effect white, how would that look?
"


Ummm. . . . like this.

[ ** EDIT ** The surging is more evident with the fire. I think we need a larger pic that has what looks like thick cracks in it or something so that movement can be shown.]

LB

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/xt/xt_apollo_pic.php?i=1247451
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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 04:58 Edited at: 12th Sep 2007 04:58
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More like this.




Little Bright Dots
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LBFN
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 05:20
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Rami,

okay, while looking very cool, it's different than SSBM. What about combining the two, and having the spear be where the player is and the pillar extend out from him?

Would you use a plane to place the spear, expand it in all directions and then fade to black?

btw, the level is looking awesome! I wish I could get the textures to cooperate.

LB

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tha_rami
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 05:22
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I would use several plains with spears and place them at a y# that is about 10-15 pixels random around the point where the player shoots out, while scaling the spears over the z-axis in random amounts quickly. You would get a shaking, impactlike effect which should last about... 0.5 - 1 second.


Little Bright Dots
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KYP
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 05:30
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Good idea!

LB, are you checking your e-mail?

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Data
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Posted: 12th Sep 2007 05:44
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Here's 2 pics of the new revised Baker Street. All the paltforms have been changed, crates have been added, and a lot of the faces and geometry was redone to try to have a more successful export. I'll post the files once I get to my other comp (should be soon!).

http://web.mac.com/the_data/iWeb/iDevelop/Smash%20Bros%20Project.html


Comments please!

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