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Game Design Theory / [LOCKED] Super Smash Bros.

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Zombie 20
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Posted: 1st May 2007 06:13 Edited at: 1st May 2007 06:14
Well- I came home early for an interview and after all of that I find tragedy in the team. Well, I suppose Xeno hasn't given a reason for his departure. So..I'm back, lay out the tasks whoever the new leader is and lets get this finally moving okay.

I could always use help on level design, but i'm afraid that the forum is giving up on us and I want to show them different. I'll pay attention to the forum. Good Luck Coderer

Sorry, that sounded kind of harsh, and I am a little tired from a long day. I want to help anyway I can, but all i'm saying is lets get this team moving.
zombie

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 1st May 2007 17:35
I'm fine with Teh Coder being lead programmer, but there's no way I can take over this project. I've got far to little time to do so, which I've already stated. My help is limited to concept art and part of the modeling load (though as I said, I'm not good with animations yet).

I'll try and organize things for now, but I can't lead the project for long...

I've already begun working on the concept art, though at least for now I don't plan to do characters for people who have quit the team. I'll make a post with the characters I'm drawing soon. We need to get this pulled together so that we have something tangible. I know we have some level designs, some concept art, and some code, but I have no clue the status of a design doc. Someone who actually has a lot of experience with smash bros has to do this.

I recommend that one of us make a wip thread/team request in a week or two for the project, once we're at a state where we can actually merit one. I'm willing to make the thread, but only once I have enough gathered materials to post (mainly what we need is evidence of a design doc)

I'd need:
-some concept art
-at least 2 engine screens
-some level designs
-a list of filled team positions and empty ones
-some form of a design doc.

Some of these I can get on my own, some I can't. Please email me these things, those who have them. If I've forgotten anything a wip thread would need, please say so.

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 1st May 2007 18:13
Well I'll get started with the coding then. Any updates I make I'll post here until we have enough for a WIP post.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 1st May 2007 19:32
Right, I might be able to take up the reigns on the design doc. I do have a lot of time on my hands right now until i hear back for this job. Anyway, correct if I'm wrong but a design doc outlines everything that will be put into the project right?

If so, I'll gladly write one, and i'll get back to work on designing some levels, we already have a few. But they're not that great in quality. Alright, let me know guys.

zombie

Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 1st May 2007 20:48
Anyone who needs my help I can help alittle with everything. Thats great Zombie that ur making the design doc im me sometime if u need help with it. Here is a new list for the design doc for filled positions.

Programmers- Teh Coderer, Andrew, Sixty
3D- Bizar, Data, Dared1111
2D- Cian, and Bizar (Sketches)
Sound- No one
Music- I can do some small tunes Gargoyle
Levels- Data, Zombie

Winner my a longshot!
Dared1111
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 00:10
I'll take over on lead modeler then if its not done already

[link]"http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Dared1111/" my account on GGE[\link]
Shadow heart
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 02:37
sound, I can definetly help. ANd probably get you some music off my keyboard, audio program, and, samplers.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 03:38
Sounds great everyone, I have no problem with Dared being the lead modeller, if anyone else has any experience, it would be appreciated.

Shadow Heart-That would be nice, looking forward to it. Same with you gargoyle, if you can get it over to someone's computer.

Coderer-I've seen what you did in your thread about this and I liked it a lot. Good luck mate . The same goes for all of the programmers and every other position, its a big project.

Alright, laters everyone

zombie

zzz
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 10:31
I could help on this project!
I´m best at 3d-modelling, textures/uv-mapping and animations.
I guess I could do some minor programming as well.

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 17:34
Awesome zzz! Your 3D skills and coding will be much appreciated! Especially 3D. Soulhunter's models look great!

Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 18:30
OMG- zzz, you're soulhunter was so good looking. It is an honor to work with you.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 21:44
so are we getting this project started, soon?

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd May 2007 23:09 Edited at: 2nd May 2007 23:26
hopefully shadow, i could use some help with the design doc, don't know where to start.

Okay..got some help nvm guys. I'll have it up by oh lets say 8:00 a.m. tomorrow okay?

I'll put out the first draft then.

Deathead
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 00:24
Where the hell is crazy!(probably on holiday for a YEAR!)
Really where is crazy

JOIN NOW!Or be square!
Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 01:17
Oh great. If you need help with design doc i can help. no prob p.s. i've got some sounds down, and a little music, but i'm still working on the tabs. I can also do some graphic design.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 01:41
p.s. heres a design document logo banner header I made for it.

DARK BASIC BROS. I could change alittle bit. Theres a few changes if you want made i could make.



website of image
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Eternal_Dawn_of_Fate/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=4223729

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 03:22 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 03:30
It sounds like things are starting to pull together some more. I've got some fairly detailed sketches with some notes completed, but before I post any or make any more, I just want to ask...

Do we really want to use team members as playable characters?

I would love to see my avatar in this game, kicking some serious ass, but I'm not certain that would make for the best line up. If we plan to use both db game characters and forum members, it would go that we should use mostly very well known forum members. This might include long time mods, Lee and rich, and people we think agree are awesome or have developed killer games...

This wouldn't be a problem if the team was just two or three people, but it's not. I foresee us having somewhere around a max of 20 characters, and with between 7 and 10 team members, that really pushes the number of game characters and other (more referenced) forum members we can include.

If we do use team members, I think they should be like bonus characters, and not even modeled until later down the road when it's clear we actually have the capacity to add them, and have a better idea of who is in reality part of the team.

So I guess why I don't want to post what I've drawn so far here, is because I think people will start wowing them and say how we have to use them, when I have no problem putting them on a shelf or even just scraping them.


So, what do other people think about this?


Based on what people decide (and if no one else minds), I'll post my top 20 picks for game characters, and people can decide which ones they think should be added, and which ones they think should be taken off the list. This should make it so everyone gets a fair say in what characters are used, while actually having something tangible and standard to look at. Then I can go about getting permissions (or denials), and drawing all the character concept art.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 04:32
thanks! Please post the pics




to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 04:39
Hey guys, who's our new leader? Just curious

Satchmo
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 04:47
I AM! jk lol but whats with the name change? I liked tgc heros better.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 04:52
sorry
want me to make it tgc heros.?

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 06:30 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 06:34
@Shadow heart, err... how much of my post did you read? And we already have a logo for the time being, by Cian Rice on the 7th page.
Edit:


@Zombie 20, no one in particular right now, and so far, I've noticed no real change for the worse. We should decide say just before a wip post is made.

@ fxgamer, TGC Heroes is still the name as far as I know... I think Shadow heart just made a mistake.


PLEASE READ: I NEED FEED BACK ON THIS
It sounds like things are starting to pull together some more. I've got some fairly detailed sketches with some notes completed, but before I post any or make any more, I just want to ask...

Do we really want to use team members as playable characters?

I would love to see my avatar in this game, kicking some serious ass, but I'm not certain that would make for the best line up. If we plan to use both db game characters and forum members, it would go that we should use mostly very well known forum members. This might include long time mods, Lee and rich, and people we think agree are awesome or have developed killer games...

This wouldn't be a problem if the team was just two or three people, but it's not. I foresee us having somewhere around a max of 20 characters, and with between 7 and 10 team members, that really pushes the number of game characters and other (more referenced) forum members we can include.

If we do use team members, I think they should be like bonus characters, and not even modeled until later down the road when it's clear we actually have the capacity to add them, and have a better idea of who is in reality part of the team.

So I guess why I don't want to post what I've drawn so far here, is because I think people will start wowing them and say how we have to use them, when I have no problem putting them on a shelf or even just scraping them.


So, what do other people think about this?


Based on what people decide (and if no one else minds), I'll post my top 20 picks for game characters, and people can decide which ones they think should be added, and which ones they think should be taken off the list. This should make it so everyone gets a fair say in what characters are used, while actually having something tangible and standard to look at. Then I can go about getting permissions (or denials), and drawing all the character concept art.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 06:54
whoops, sorry, don't worry idk, that's actually pretty cool looking, less work for me.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 07:05
Bizar- I'm a little torn on this, I want everyone to have a chance to be in the game. I've got no problem with having mods in the game, but as you guys are doing the modelling it is up to you to make those decisions.

I'll wait for the list to make final decisions but as of now I'm okay with db characters and mods.

zombie

Shadow heart
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 07:13
ok it looks, like it's coming along nicely.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 08:29 Edited at: 3rd May 2007 08:30
Alright here is the first draft, whoever gets to it first, I could use the suggestions. Alright, can't upload it, so i'm gonna paste it in. well that sucks, the images didn't work.









TGC Heroes Design Document-First Draft

By Zombie20


Hello all and welcome to the first draft design doc for a very anticipated game title. TGC Heroes.
Surely you have all heard of the popular multiplayer romp Super Smahs Bros. that brought such
great success to the nintendo 64 and gamecube. We here at the TGC community have sought out
the great task of bringing you that action with some familiar faces of the community. Alright so let's
lay out what we have so far.

Well then, get ready for a some of the most violent, kick-assery this side of darkbasic. Did I just make up a word you bet I did, its just that asweome. GET READY TO RUMBLE with your favorite mod or forum member when this little bomb lands into your hardrive!!!!

The_Coderer has already begun programming a project like this before and I believe it was that which brought up the subject of making this game in the first place.
Data has contributed concept art for levels including a warehouse and a forest setting.
Bizar Guy and Cian Rice have brought their own style of drawing with concept art.

Right well, i do apologize if i missed anything there, i am kind of tired but lets get on with what we
are setting out to accomplish.



Loose Talk on What's Being Done- (meaning not yet confirmed)

As of latest release, we have a character cap at 20 brawlers with perhaps a few more as bonus hidden characters. Those joining the ranks will be mods and forum members as well as team members joining the fray.

Data and I have set no cap on level creation yet, I have suggested as many as 50 levels to be created with possible future patches if the project is successful. On a side note: Future patches could also inlcude new music, textures, characters, maps, the whole lot .


Team Updates-


Shadow Heart and Beast Gargoyle are currently providing sound and music creation. As of recent notice, Beast Gargoyle has a mulitude of songs avaiable for use but his internet is too slow to attach the files. He is trying to e-mail them to me this weekend so cross your fingers.

ZZZ who is responsible for the very well done project Soulhunter has joined the team to do animation and modelling. Joining him will be Dared and Bizar and Data

As well The_Coderer, Sixty Squares, And Andrew joining on the team as our lead programmers.

And Data and I are on Level Creation

Alright, thats it for the team!


Note: I apologize if its not the best, i've never written a design doc before.


Screens of The Action!-(What we have anyway)

The_Coderer's intial screen-



My Very First Levels- Never touched a level program-





Data's Concept Art-



Multiplayer Support-
As of now, Keyboard and Joysticks have been discussed, but very briefly as its so far down the line to worry about for now. Other possible methods were discussed as porting to emulators for actual controllers *perhaps XNA and XBOX 360*

Items have not yet been discussed but i'd like to go over a few of my choices I would like to see in the game.

A ray gun
Various Fruit
A viking helmet from Animal Crossing
A mirror that deflects the ray gun
A boot
The powerful friend of a programmer-Coffee!!!!!

Well I could go on forever about that, but another update with the characters. We should be expecting a list of possible contenders tomorrow at some point. So in the second draft, there will most likely be a list.

This is completly up to the animators and modellers, but I know I had suggested animated backgrounds and another user had suggested maybe backgrounds that changed on a timer. I know there is already a lot on the animators and modellers but its just something to think about.

MiniBosses?-
This is coming from me and I would love to see this implented in the final version. It was always fun to be the small guy and go up against a giant opponent or the famous metal battle from the orginial smash bros. That being said another topic raises up from this, what about AI controlled allies? Just something maybe you could "tag" them in and execute some sort of special power boost.

Level Homefield Advantage-
It was something I was thinking about, what if each character had a "home world" where they recieved a power boost over their opponents.

Okay as of now, i can't think of anything else, so I'm concluding my first draft done, please rip it apart but be gentle. Anyway, tell me what i did wrong so I can fix it okay guys?

zombie

Beast E Gargoyle
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 18:04
First off the design doc overall was informative and telling what we have planned. I like the logo Cian Rice made it sounds like a better title than darkbasic smash bros. For charcters I would prefer using team members, nintendo characters, and other characters from random stuff like the BK king, Trix Rabbit, something difrerent and cool, but then again its up to the modellers to decide what to draw up and make. And to make the characters look better have a color change or outfit change option. Levels with changing backgrounds sounds cool! Definitely work on incorporating gamepads into using on it. For weapons here is some cool weapons: dice( to throw at opponent), hammer, sword, and pokeballs were cool. Yeah have minibosses or main boss ,but have something different than the hand like a Giant Chomp from Mario. Also homefield advantage might be cool, but not sure on it. Good work on the design doc Zombie i'll await the revised versions.

Winner my a longshot!
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 3rd May 2007 18:40
Yep TGC Heroes was what we decided on. The way I see it, the only thing limiting the number of playable characters on offer is imagination and time/patience. I can quite easily make it so that the character selection could be split up into groups so that you could select from Mods, Team Member, Game Characters etc. It really isn't an issue yet. I'll be splitting my time between this, college and my own projects but this will get more time spent on it than my own projects.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 4th May 2007 01:42 Edited at: 4th May 2007 01:48
Heres some sound I did. Keep in mind that the music is "B", and not A (I don't know what I was thinking lol jk)..

Anyway it's underconstruction and I used "tabledit" and "auduacity" to make it. check it out.

sorry if it sounds horrible. I still haven't found out how to import midi from my keyboard so I had to use tabledit.

Thanks.

Anyway heres the url for the song.
http://files.filefront.com/new_projectmp3/;7422597;/fileinfo.html

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Xenocythe
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Posted: 4th May 2007 02:05
Well, it looks like my initial plan worked.

Since I left, everyone had the feeling that this was going to go down.

That feeling brought everyone together to start something and start progressing faster.


Reunitation from loss.

Expiriment compelte



But I am still not in the team

Sorry, but I got alot of school stuff and I want to only work on my MMO.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 4th May 2007 02:08
good plan lol............

anyway thanks for your support.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 4th May 2007 02:19
well guys, sugesstions for any game design doc changes?

Shadow heart
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Posted: 4th May 2007 02:34
looks good! can't wait till we get a few pics and can make it a pdf or whatever.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Zombie 20
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Posted: 4th May 2007 05:33
Alright, good. Glad you guys have postive feedback on it. So now its up i can revise if you want. But my real question is.

Whats the next step? I'm soooo excited and I want to keep getting a buch done.

Alright, night

zombie

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 4th May 2007 19:38
Umm...I think people may be getting confused...I think the Andrew people are reffering to is me unless there is another Andrew on the team. Just to let you know that Andrew and TEH_CODERER are the same person. Sorry if I'm wrong.

Well I've had a chance to make a start now today and I'm up to 850 lines. I'll have an executable of the current state up soon to see what changes people think there should be.

Zombie 20
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Posted: 4th May 2007 20:11
That's great! Glad to hear it I can't wait to try it out!!

Shadow heart
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Posted: 5th May 2007 07:42
wow everythings comin' alright.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Shadow heart
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Posted: 5th May 2007 08:51
ok ok sorry for double posting but I took Zombie 20's design document and put it in a pdf. Tell me what you think. Sorry if it isn't that good it's like 11 o clock where i live....lol

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Dared1111
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Posted: 5th May 2007 17:07
Heres an axe

Hope its liked

linky[

[link]"http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Dared1111/" my account on GGE[\link]
zzz
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Posted: 5th May 2007 17:17
Are we going to use ONLY characters that has already been used in a game or can we also design new ones? (I have a few ideas)

@dared1111:
That axe looks a bit hi-poly...

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 5th May 2007 17:28
Well like I said, I think there should be selections of characters to choose from. So first you choose a group:
MODS
TEAM MEMBERS
GAME CHARACTERS
etc.
Then from within that sub-group you select a character. So there is no reason why one of the sub-groups couldn't be ORIGINAL CHARACTERS or something.

Well I thought I'd give you a vid of the main menu. Unless there is something that you all spot wrong with it that I didn't see then, aside from improving graphics possibly, I think that is the main menu done. Next I will make a character selection screen and then a level editor and finally on to the game itself!

Here is the vid.
http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n304/andrewneale2004/?action=view¤t=TGCHeroes-Mainmenuv0.flv

Dared1111
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Posted: 5th May 2007 17:29
its very low poly

[link]"http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Dared1111/" my account on GGE[\link]
Zombie 20
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Posted: 5th May 2007 18:50
I like it, good job. Keep it up

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 5th May 2007 18:59
Like the menu or the axe? Either way, any suggestions for the menu?

Zombie 20
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Posted: 5th May 2007 19:05
Um..my only suggestion is to make the screen darker, that's it. I like it.

*Dared-Like the axe, does look a little high-poly

TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 5th May 2007 19:24
OK. Thanks! On with character selection then. But not till monday probably. I'd like to get a bit of my own projects done so I'll be doing one day on this, one day on mine etc.

Data
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Posted: 5th May 2007 19:39 Edited at: 5th May 2007 20:01
Personally, I love the menu, its simple, elegant, and effective, also I'll get some levels up right away.

Edit

Okay, I've added another map that I have been working on, look here:

http://web.mac.com/the_data/iWeb/iDevelop/Smash%20Bros%20Project.html


now we have:
a treehouse map
a crate/structure map
a skateboard park map

what do you think about them, and what would you like to see?


[url=www.web.mac.com/the_data]iDevelop[/url]
TEH_CODERER
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Posted: 5th May 2007 20:02
Thanks! Glad you like it. I'm assuming we are going to want to add things to levels like moving platforms, breaking platforms, fire, portals etc. So I'll make a level editor after I've done character selection which lets you load a .x/.dbo level and add those things to it. So anywhere in the level that you want a moving platform or whatever then don't add it in the object. It'll be added in the level editor. Assuming everyone is happy with that idea...

Zombie 20
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Posted: 5th May 2007 20:30
Yea!! I would love a level editor!!!

Data-I'm going to try and create some levels tonight, we'll see how they turn out, i love your concept art

Dared1111
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Posted: 5th May 2007 22:02
i'll try do a random level maker sometime soon

[link]"http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/Dared1111/" my account on GGE[\link]

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